Compensation
06-24-2014, 09:31 PM
#1006
Rennlist Member
Just some perspective taking Porsche to court over this will actually cost you more in lawyer cost than what your suing for. The "out" for Porsche will be they offered a full refund, and it's a recall which happens frequently. The compensation is clearly out of good will no court will impose damages when refunds were offered.
Based on the EU they have certain laws that could drive more compensation; thus the higher cost per unit in the EU. I happen to live in the EU, and the US big difference on consumer protection. My opinion it drives up the cost of product such as cars in the EU. Good luck on your decisions, but being compensated, loaner, and increase warrantee I personally think it's fair. At the end of the day we all have a high class problem waiting on our 140k plus cars. Good luck taking that to a court in the US(:
Now I would say if no refund was offered there provides the lemon law, and being stuck with a delayed product damages are obtainable. Free advice here no charge(:
Based on the EU they have certain laws that could drive more compensation; thus the higher cost per unit in the EU. I happen to live in the EU, and the US big difference on consumer protection. My opinion it drives up the cost of product such as cars in the EU. Good luck on your decisions, but being compensated, loaner, and increase warrantee I personally think it's fair. At the end of the day we all have a high class problem waiting on our 140k plus cars. Good luck taking that to a court in the US(:
Now I would say if no refund was offered there provides the lemon law, and being stuck with a delayed product damages are obtainable. Free advice here no charge(:
Porsche recognizes it liability and made a decision to compensate most of the stakeholders who have had their cars built delivered or not delivered. In doing so they discriminated against stakeholders in different countries without providing justification. PCNA has told me and others they have been trying to get PAG to increase the compensation to no avail. Now why would PCNA makes these numerous request to PAG if they felt Porsche's offer to us was fair?
As a lawyer there are different avenues to pursue other than a court of law. The costs would be minimal.
06-24-2014, 10:53 PM
#1008
Just some perspective taking Porsche to court over this will actually cost you more in lawyer cost than what your suing for. The "out" for Porsche will be they offered a full refund, and it's a recall which happens frequently. The compensation is clearly out of good will no court will impose damages when refunds were offered.
Based on the EU they have certain laws that could drive more compensation; thus the higher cost per unit in the EU. I happen to live in the EU, and the US big difference on consumer protection. My opinion it drives up the cost of product such as cars in the EU. Good luck on your decisions, but being compensated, loaner, and increase warrantee I personally think it's fair. At the end of the day we all have a high class problem waiting on our 140k plus cars. Good luck taking that to a court in the US(:
Now I would say if no refund was offered there provides the lemon law, and being stuck with a delayed product damages are obtainable. Free advice here no charge(:
Based on the EU they have certain laws that could drive more compensation; thus the higher cost per unit in the EU. I happen to live in the EU, and the US big difference on consumer protection. My opinion it drives up the cost of product such as cars in the EU. Good luck on your decisions, but being compensated, loaner, and increase warrantee I personally think it's fair. At the end of the day we all have a high class problem waiting on our 140k plus cars. Good luck taking that to a court in the US(:
Now I would say if no refund was offered there provides the lemon law, and being stuck with a delayed product damages are obtainable. Free advice here no charge(:
06-24-2014, 10:59 PM
#1009
I hear you good luck, I'm not knocking your position. Just know that everything Porsche has done has been blessed by their legal department. Country laws exit US all vary never do business in Brazil(: Best wishes, and know all will be excited when this is over. I had a similar deal with my EU delivery M5 from BMW due to a recall, and the compensation varied from person to person. BMW provided long time customes more which caused an uproar because people started sharing their deals online so be careful.
06-25-2014, 12:51 AM
#1010
Instructor
I've read some of the posts and have thoughts on possible next steps for the US however I believe it's best to discuss and strategise on the private forum.
06-25-2014, 07:23 AM
#1011
Rennlist Member
I don't believe that is correct. They pay more because of the VAT tax which is 19%. In the Middle East they pay less than we do.
This is just wrong and I will not allow the exuberance of getting our cars back in the near future to blind me to this unfairness. If there is a valid reason Porsche is discriminating against US buyers we have a right to know what it is.
This is just wrong and I will not allow the exuberance of getting our cars back in the near future to blind me to this unfairness. If there is a valid reason Porsche is discriminating against US buyers we have a right to know what it is.
Do you know for a fact the European countries you demand equality with offer the same consumer protection you enjoy in CA, namely that you can walk away from the car with a full refund of your deposit right up until it is sitting in front of you in the showroom?
And you consider simply ordering a car to your spec to be an enforceable purchase contract?
Good luck with your legal pursuit...
06-25-2014, 09:48 AM
#1012
Nick ignore all these negative nay say'ers which are obviously shadow posters trained and paid by Porsche. Believe me there are a number of us who agree with you. Will you start a new thread on action group site so we don't have to dig through the other posts. Nick I think people will receive 15's before my 14.....wtf
That's my motor!
That's my motor!
06-25-2014, 12:11 PM
#1013
Rennlist Member
I have litigated enough cases to know two things. One, litigate as a last resort and two, results are very unpredictable.
I have no idea what would happen if the discriminatory policies of PAG we presented in either a court of law, arbitration or mediation. It is possible European countries have laws which required Porsche to pay more to their citizens and I can accept that. What I cannot accept is US citizens be given less without an explanation. PAG owes us that.
I have no idea what would happen if the discriminatory policies of PAG we presented in either a court of law, arbitration or mediation. It is possible European countries have laws which required Porsche to pay more to their citizens and I can accept that. What I cannot accept is US citizens be given less without an explanation. PAG owes us that.
06-25-2014, 12:19 PM
#1014
I have litigated enough cases to know two things. One, litigate as a last resort and two, results are very unpredictable. I have no idea what would happened if the discriminatory policies of PAG we presented in either a court of law, arbitration or mediation. It is possible European countries have laws which required Porsche to pay more to their citizens and I can accept that. What I cannot accept is US citizens be given less without an explanation. PAG owes us that.
06-25-2014, 12:26 PM
#1015
Rennlist Member
MY understanding is if one is not part of the group letter you could not participate on the private site. If I am wrong please PM the private site address.
06-25-2014, 04:46 PM
#1016
Instructor
I sent Ian Moon an e-mail earlier today inquiring about a loaner car. He called me back about 30 minutes later and is arranging a loaner with my dealer. He confirmed the 2,000/month, original delivery date, and extended warranty. My car was held at the factory. It makes sense for them to provide loaners to owners who have taken delivery. I was surprised they would provide loaners to those of us who haven't take delivery. Ian was very professional and a pleasure to deal with.
06-25-2014, 05:05 PM
#1017
Race Director
This much I know. I will not sign any document releasing PCNA for any further claims for compensation even if it means they not sending me what they owe to date. It may be worth litigation the issue. PAG/PCNA have an obligation to deal with us in good faith in this implied contract (which is what it is). The fact that Europe is get much more in compensation and PCNA urging PAG to compensate customers of NA more fairly would be indicative that PAG has not.
You all should realize that PAG is not offering compensation just to be charitable. They are doing this for a variety of financial reasons. They could have been faced with a multitude of lawsuits from owners regarding their losses and down time.
Try renting a Porsche GT3 for $65 a day in the US. it closer to at least $1000 a day. All category A have this loss which would be defrayed to a certain extent if they took out loaners.
If you guys want to roll over that is your business. I will not.
You all should realize that PAG is not offering compensation just to be charitable. They are doing this for a variety of financial reasons. They could have been faced with a multitude of lawsuits from owners regarding their losses and down time.
Try renting a Porsche GT3 for $65 a day in the US. it closer to at least $1000 a day. All category A have this loss which would be defrayed to a certain extent if they took out loaners.
If you guys want to roll over that is your business. I will not.
Still, I think there is room for individual customers to work things out with their dealers and even PCNA. We've seen examples of that with other RLer's and my own experience also bears that out. As far as rolling over is concerned, although I think some of our ROW brothers and sisters were treated exceptionally well, after all is said and done, I can't honestly say I feel cheated. But more equal compensation would have been nice.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
06-25-2014, 05:32 PM
#1018
Rennlist Member
Nick, I understand how you feel. I just think that as a practical matter the compensation ship has sailed especially in the context of what played out for US customers even with the leverage of the GT3 Action Group.
Still, I think there is room for individual customers to work things out with their dealers and even PCNA. We've seen examples of that with other RLer's and my own experience also bears that out. As far as rolling over is concerned, although I think some of our ROW brothers and sisters were treated exceptionally well, after all is said and done, I can't honestly say I feel cheated. But more equal compensation would have been nice.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Still, I think there is room for individual customers to work things out with their dealers and even PCNA. We've seen examples of that with other RLer's and my own experience also bears that out. As far as rolling over is concerned, although I think some of our ROW brothers and sisters were treated exceptionally well, after all is said and done, I can't honestly say I feel cheated. But more equal compensation would have been nice.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
To clarify. I do not feel cheated. I feel discriminated against. My damages are no different from what European owners suffered. Porsche cannot deny that. Even PCNA has recognized this and lobbied PAG to increase our compensation. Also, I recognize some owners have incurred additional damages and should be individual dealt with.
All I ask is PAG to be fair AND NOT DISCRIMINATE BECAUSE OWNERS LIVE IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. How would any of us feel if replacement engines for European countries now had 525hp and we in the US 475hp? Is 475hp adequate? Of course! Otherwise, we would not have bought the car. Yet it is grossly unfair for Europe to get 525hp and we in the US 475hp.
The compensation package issue is no different. If PAG has a valid reason/reasons for the disparity they should tell and explain them to us.
06-25-2014, 08:14 PM
#1019
Rennlist Member
Nick, when I got my car yesterday there was no mention of compensation and I did not have to sign any paperwork. So we still have some leverage as we have not yet released them from any liability. Mark
06-25-2014, 08:57 PM
#1020
Rennlist Member
before then.