TrackFan

This is my first post here, so let me say hello first off. I've been reading this forum for a little while, and I figured it's about time to join. I've been a car nut for 60 years now. (I'm 70) I've never owned a Porsche, but I don't understand that myself. I always wanted to.

So, to my question. For 60 years i've never owned an automatic. I figured at this point, I could live out my life saying that. All my street cars, race cars, and even my past job of driving an 18 wheeler were all shifted by me. I like to shift.

Then I caught an interest in the new GT3. Like some of you I'm disappointed in a no manual option. I studied the PDK, and i'll admit I would probably be faster with it, but speed isn't always the bottom line. I'll just be doing track days. No real racing. So, the maximum enjoyment is the goal, and that means shifting myself.

What i'm curious about is hard would it be to convert the GT3 to manual? I know it would be pricey, but it seems the 7 speed from the CS would bolt in. Along with the shifter, clutch pedal etc. My biggest worry is the computer.

What are your thoughts?

Dude-

Hi TrackFan, I hate to say this but 997 GT3. No need to convert if speed is not important to you. I unfortunately don't know a single thing about converting the 991 GT3 which is why I think it may be too much work.

Cheers.

Mike in CA

I think it would be monumentally expensive. Agree with Dude; look for a nice used 997.2 GT3.

TrackFan

I've fallen in love with the 991 GT3 though. I also like some of the new features like RWS.

Don't misunderstand me. I still want to go fast, and will be driving near my limit. I just won't be trying to win a race, so a bit slower time won't matter that much.

Maybe I should go drive a PDK in a CS to see what it's all about. I just don't know what i'd do with my left foot? I suppose I could LF brake.

TrackFan

This was another concern of mine with the PDK.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7597...h-the-pdk.html

Leigh2

Don't worry, there's lots to do without worrying about keeping your left foot busy

Your thoughts about left foot braking are valid. It's a difficult skill to master and something to work on once you're comfortable with the rest of the skills you'll need on the track.

Mike in CA

PDK in a CS will give you some idea although PDK-S in the GT3 is supposed to be a big step forward. One of the issues that has been discussed is that the systems in the car like RWS, variable limited slip, torque vectoring, engine management, etc. have all been calibrated and designed to work with PDK. Plugging in a different transmission, assuming that would even be possible, could very well compromise how everything works together.

TrackFan

You're right Mike. Maybe not a practical idea to put a manual in it. I guess I can get used to the PDK. Hopefully, it won't take the fun out of it.


Leigh........Actually, i'm ok with LF braking. I would switch between RF and LF braking.

Like this.

Petevb

I feel certain someone is going to do a manual version of a 991 GT3. Not sure if it's Ruf, the factory or who, but demand is high enough that someone will come up with a solution and it will be fairly straightforward. Unfortunately I'm guessing it will cost ~20k including some software tweaks. I don't buy the argument that the 991 GT3 is so specifically tuned that it won't work well without PDK.

The smart money would wait and see what comes along and how good it is, but that will mean waiting...

Nizer

+1

Mike in CA

I'm not saying that exactly; almost anything is possible if you throw enough money at it. One of the arguments put forward by AP and others is that the additional engineering required to reprogram the various systems to work with a manual, not to mention designing the new MT itself, were outside the scope of the 991 GT3 project, at least as it was originally budgeted and conceived. The claim was that they had to choose one transmission and PDK was it. So if that is to be believed, integration of a MT in the car was an issue that was at least somewhat problematic.

As you say, people can wait and see not only if someone is willing to make the investment to market a manual solution, but whether it will work in the car as well as it appears PDK-S does.

sunnyr

If PDK-S is not mechanically too different from the normal PDK, I would think swapping the 7 speed manual from 911 Carrera into GT3 is probably not too difficult.

Petevb

I'm aware of those arguments. On the other hand, Porsche is working with different metrics and rules (profit margins, corporate goals, parts interchangeability, ring lap time targets, etc) than the aftermarket. I've pointed out before that the reason the GT3 is PDK only is probably mainly down to what a poor alternative the frankly crap manual 7 speed made. This would remain the easiest retrofit, clearly the cheapest to develop though it's not clear anyone can upgrade the shift itself to be decent.

Alternatively for the aftermarket a proper manual six speed seems a relatively straightforward challenge. Consider how few cars Ruf is going to amortize its V8 engine over (far harder and more expensive to develop). Compared to that a transmission seems like a relatively sure bet. The main technical issue I see is that the clutch arrangement for the 991 is relatively unique, and will make raiding some existing parts-bins challenging. However you only need to look at vintage Porsche race cars to see that there is a fair size market for entire aftermarket transmissions when the factory doesn't offer a suitable solution.

The bigger concern is the risk that Porsche themselves or another big aftermarket player does a manual. If Porsche offered a manual RS or 991.2 GT3 that would wipe out the development money spent by whoever tried to offer the manual solution. That risk alone says that it may be a few years before anyone invests enough to "do it right". If that wasn't a risk I can think of a couple guys who could have a good solution in relatively short order. At a price, as I said.

One thing is clear- it will be slower. But for those that prefer to shift for themselves it may be the only real choice.

TrackFan

Good to see my idea wasn't too far off base. Maybe the new RS will be the solution too.

Either way, i'll wait awhile to see what happens. Meanwhile you guys can rub in your new GT3's.

Mike in CA

And therein lies the rub, IMHO. At least when an aftermarket manufacturer like Ruf offers a re-engineering of a Porsche product it's with the implicit understanding that it will outperform the original. In this case, in addition to whatever engineering, construction, and reprogramming challenges may be involved, there will be the issue of whether it's possible to raise or even reach the PDK-S performance bar with a MT.

It's one thing to take a risk on building and marketing a tweak for big money that gives the customer bragging rights to a faster car. It's another to take the same risk for something that makes the car slower. I'm not saying it can't or won't be done, just that it's another obstacle to such a project.