991 GT3 vs. 997.2 GT3 performance difference
07-02-2013, 02:46 PM
#1
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991 GT3 vs. 997.2 GT3 performance difference
Chris Harris mentioned that RWS locks when drifting, but thanks to the Edmunds (InsideLine) reveal, it is RWS not functioning at all when PSM is Off and TC is Off. PSM/TC-Off is the setting used for fastest lap times, so this gizmo RWS has been added for extra comfort and ease of use when driving without fastest laps as a goal.
RWS has zero impact on the 991 GT3 maximum performance, as extracting the maximum performance means disabling RWS.
I have no data on the MPSC-2 tires, but I do on the Dunlop SportMaxxRace (g-forces on several turns). I bet to say this new Dunlop and the new MPSC-2 are 1% faster over a 60 secs course (0.6secs faster, compared to the old MPSC N-Spec and the CorsaSystem. The data was obtained from the Motor Trend test on the C63-Black. At the Nurburgring these new tires alone would account for a 4 secs difference, compared to the old Corsa/MPSC-NSpec.
As a side note, one of the reasons the 997.2 GT3RS was that much faster than the 997.2 GT3 at the Ring (7 seconds faster) was the compound used on the RS rear tire. This was documented by Sport Auto. In reality, and on equal tires, the 7.2 GT3RS is not that much faster than the 7.2 GT3 on a typical road course, it is faster but not by such margin. Contrary to the U.S. market where the 7.2 GT3 came with Sofa seats, in Europe the cars have nearly identical weight.
Based on the advantage on upshifts between PDK-S and a conventional manual transmission, as explained by Andreas Preuninger, every upshift the PDK-S takes a 3/4 of car length advantage. At the Nurburgring, the 991GT3 travels at a little over 150ft/second, and a lap at the Ring contains 50+ upshifts. PDK-S is accountable for another 4 secs advantage at the Ring, not including any advantage it can gain on downshifts (by reducing braking distances). In my experience with the 60ms F1 in the Fiat, the Fiat jumps 1.25 cars ahead on upshift from 1st to 2nd, about 1 car length from 2nd-3rd, and about 3/4 of a car from 3rd-4th, so AP information matches what I have witnessed playing at the local drag strips.
In between the 7.2RS 3.8 and the 4.0, the main difference is the 50Hp. The weight difference is minimal at just 22 lbs (insignificant for a 3,300+ lbs car with half fuel and driver). On the dyno, the 3.8 RS and the 4.0 RS are closer than the claimed 50Hp difference, actual power difference is more like 40Hp, similar to the power difference between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991GT3. Aero in the 3.8RS and 4.0RS is nearly identical. The 4.0RS lapped 6 secs faster than the 3.8RS per Porsche official (and not proven) figures.
At the Ring the official Porsche lap times are 7:25 and 7:40, with PDK-S saving around 4 secs, tires saving another 4 secs, and the extra power saving around 6 secs.
This leaves just 1 second on performance to explain, which is the balance between the 991 carrying an extra 77 lbs of weight (bad), the better 991 weight distribution (slightly better), the longer wheelbase (good), fat front tires (good), wider front track (good), wider front wheel (good), more unsprung weight (bad), closer gear ratios (good). A 77 lbs weight increase costs nearly 3 secs at a racetrack as long as the Ring, despite of this handicap, the new car is still 1 second ahead (ignoring PDK-S, tires, power). So all the chassis/suspension/gearing specs are accounting to another 4 secs improvement.
Summary:
Tires: -4 secs
Extra Power: -6 secs
PDK-S: -4 secs
Chassis/Suspension/Gearing: -4 secs
Extra 77 weight and added Sprung Weight: + 3 secs
RWS: No improvement
These are not exact numbers, but a good baseline on where the performance difference is found between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991 GT3.
With just a 66 lbs weight reduction, a lot more downforce, and wider rear tires, the next 991 GT3 RS should be capable of hitting 7:18 (7 secs drop from the 991 GT3), matching the fastest ever road Porsche at the Ring, the 620Hp 997 GT2 RS. If the 991 GT3 RS gains extra power over the 991 GT3 (and I'm sure it will), it will break under 7:18, and put all the car brands in the rearview mirror except the mighty ACR and the LFA-Nurb.
Porsche might get its crown back like it had many years ago with the 996 GT3, when all other manufacturers were chasing Porsche at the Ring instead of the current reality of Porsche chasing all of them (except Fiat/Lambo because they are crappy cars on a racetrack).
RWS has zero impact on the 991 GT3 maximum performance, as extracting the maximum performance means disabling RWS.
I have no data on the MPSC-2 tires, but I do on the Dunlop SportMaxxRace (g-forces on several turns). I bet to say this new Dunlop and the new MPSC-2 are 1% faster over a 60 secs course (0.6secs faster, compared to the old MPSC N-Spec and the CorsaSystem. The data was obtained from the Motor Trend test on the C63-Black. At the Nurburgring these new tires alone would account for a 4 secs difference, compared to the old Corsa/MPSC-NSpec.
As a side note, one of the reasons the 997.2 GT3RS was that much faster than the 997.2 GT3 at the Ring (7 seconds faster) was the compound used on the RS rear tire. This was documented by Sport Auto. In reality, and on equal tires, the 7.2 GT3RS is not that much faster than the 7.2 GT3 on a typical road course, it is faster but not by such margin. Contrary to the U.S. market where the 7.2 GT3 came with Sofa seats, in Europe the cars have nearly identical weight.
Based on the advantage on upshifts between PDK-S and a conventional manual transmission, as explained by Andreas Preuninger, every upshift the PDK-S takes a 3/4 of car length advantage. At the Nurburgring, the 991GT3 travels at a little over 150ft/second, and a lap at the Ring contains 50+ upshifts. PDK-S is accountable for another 4 secs advantage at the Ring, not including any advantage it can gain on downshifts (by reducing braking distances). In my experience with the 60ms F1 in the Fiat, the Fiat jumps 1.25 cars ahead on upshift from 1st to 2nd, about 1 car length from 2nd-3rd, and about 3/4 of a car from 3rd-4th, so AP information matches what I have witnessed playing at the local drag strips.
In between the 7.2RS 3.8 and the 4.0, the main difference is the 50Hp. The weight difference is minimal at just 22 lbs (insignificant for a 3,300+ lbs car with half fuel and driver). On the dyno, the 3.8 RS and the 4.0 RS are closer than the claimed 50Hp difference, actual power difference is more like 40Hp, similar to the power difference between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991GT3. Aero in the 3.8RS and 4.0RS is nearly identical. The 4.0RS lapped 6 secs faster than the 3.8RS per Porsche official (and not proven) figures.
At the Ring the official Porsche lap times are 7:25 and 7:40, with PDK-S saving around 4 secs, tires saving another 4 secs, and the extra power saving around 6 secs.
This leaves just 1 second on performance to explain, which is the balance between the 991 carrying an extra 77 lbs of weight (bad), the better 991 weight distribution (slightly better), the longer wheelbase (good), fat front tires (good), wider front track (good), wider front wheel (good), more unsprung weight (bad), closer gear ratios (good). A 77 lbs weight increase costs nearly 3 secs at a racetrack as long as the Ring, despite of this handicap, the new car is still 1 second ahead (ignoring PDK-S, tires, power). So all the chassis/suspension/gearing specs are accounting to another 4 secs improvement.
Summary:
Tires: -4 secs
Extra Power: -6 secs
PDK-S: -4 secs
Chassis/Suspension/Gearing: -4 secs
Extra 77 weight and added Sprung Weight: + 3 secs
RWS: No improvement
These are not exact numbers, but a good baseline on where the performance difference is found between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991 GT3.
With just a 66 lbs weight reduction, a lot more downforce, and wider rear tires, the next 991 GT3 RS should be capable of hitting 7:18 (7 secs drop from the 991 GT3), matching the fastest ever road Porsche at the Ring, the 620Hp 997 GT2 RS. If the 991 GT3 RS gains extra power over the 991 GT3 (and I'm sure it will), it will break under 7:18, and put all the car brands in the rearview mirror except the mighty ACR and the LFA-Nurb.
Porsche might get its crown back like it had many years ago with the 996 GT3, when all other manufacturers were chasing Porsche at the Ring instead of the current reality of Porsche chasing all of them (except Fiat/Lambo because they are crappy cars on a racetrack).
07-02-2013, 03:21 PM
#2
Race Director
good analysis but I cant understand P's logic in adding the RWS. If its truly for comfort wouldnt it be more logical in the 991 Carrera? Also what about brakes?
Separately are there any ring times for the new F12?
Separately are there any ring times for the new F12?
07-02-2013, 03:22 PM
#3
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Hi NJGT,
always good post from you here..the points you raise seem OK for me..just two more things:
1) the September issue of the Sport Auto will reveal all the answers. My guess is the 991 GT3 will be closer to the 997.2 Gt3RS than the claimed 7:25 - but lets see.
2) On the tires: lets see:
a) how far the 991 Gt3 will off 997.2 gt3 times at wet track (keep in mind the 991S was in the rain already 15 seconds of 997.2 Gt3 times..and this at a very short circuit..at the Ring this would have added up to 1 Minute
b) how far it will be from 997.2GT3RS wet times. No doubt that the new tires are a bit better at dry..but no big deal. AP even said that the 991 GT3 will be delivered with Michelin and Dunlop..but that both are the same..so..I think the tires wont make a big difference.
One more thing..youre forgetting that the 991 GT3 is 30KG heavier..yes at the shifting it will gain 3/4th of a car..but I would be curios to see how it will be during braking..
September will give is the answer..just wait..
always good post from you here..the points you raise seem OK for me..just two more things:
1) the September issue of the Sport Auto will reveal all the answers. My guess is the 991 GT3 will be closer to the 997.2 Gt3RS than the claimed 7:25 - but lets see.
2) On the tires: lets see:
a) how far the 991 Gt3 will off 997.2 gt3 times at wet track (keep in mind the 991S was in the rain already 15 seconds of 997.2 Gt3 times..and this at a very short circuit..at the Ring this would have added up to 1 Minute
b) how far it will be from 997.2GT3RS wet times. No doubt that the new tires are a bit better at dry..but no big deal. AP even said that the 991 GT3 will be delivered with Michelin and Dunlop..but that both are the same..so..I think the tires wont make a big difference.
One more thing..youre forgetting that the 991 GT3 is 30KG heavier..yes at the shifting it will gain 3/4th of a car..but I would be curios to see how it will be during braking..
September will give is the answer..just wait..
07-02-2013, 03:38 PM
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Was it published that TC off and PSM off produced the fastest laps?
AP is on record saying RWS is faster, even with the increased weight.
Also, I'm not convinced Harris and Edmunds have the details of RWS correct. Journalists make mistakes (in that same video, Harris mentions optional 20" wheels), and IIRC AP has also said that RWS is not switchable b/t operational/non-operational.
AP is on record saying RWS is faster, even with the increased weight.
I was shying away from it. I believed it was not puristic enough. But we tried it out and it helps so much. And you don’t notice it because it’s simply a steering rod system, not some electronic gizmo. We can change the angle of the rear wheels by 1.5 degrees, which doesn’t sound like much but the effect is tremendous. I couldn’t believe how much better the agility of the car and the turn-in capability are with the system. I did a back-to-back test, in one car with the system able to be turned off by a switch, and couldn’t believe the difference. And on track, the tyres last longer, so you are more consistent.
'The steering rods add 5-6kg, plus the system draws more current so yo need a bigger battery, but back-to-back with a car with a lightweight battery, no rear-steer and a manual gearbox (and in that configuration the car is lighter than a 997 GT3) this new GT3 is so much more confidence inspiring. And faster, no matter where you drive it. It simply didn’t make sense not to use all these systems to take on all the other competitors out there.'
'The steering rods add 5-6kg, plus the system draws more current so yo need a bigger battery, but back-to-back with a car with a lightweight battery, no rear-steer and a manual gearbox (and in that configuration the car is lighter than a 997 GT3) this new GT3 is so much more confidence inspiring. And faster, no matter where you drive it. It simply didn’t make sense not to use all these systems to take on all the other competitors out there.'
07-02-2013, 04:24 PM
#5
Chris Harris mentioned that RWS locks when drifting, but thanks to the Edmunds (InsideLine) reveal, it is RWS not functioning at all when PSM is Off and TC is Off. PSM/TC-Off is the setting used for fastest lap times, so this gizmo RWS has been added for extra comfort and ease of use when driving without fastest laps as a goal.
RWS has zero impact on the 991 GT3 maximum performance, as extracting the maximum performance means disabling RWS.
RWS has zero impact on the 991 GT3 maximum performance, as extracting the maximum performance means disabling RWS.
50 kW (68 HP) Estimate of the amount of additional HP that would be required to equal the Ring time improvement provided by RWS
100KG (220 lbs) Estimate of the amount of weight that would have to be shaved from the car to achieve a similar level of improvement in chassis dynamics
See Mike in CA's thread here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...e-numbers.html
07-02-2013, 04:51 PM
#6
I agree with your conclusion- the RS will be around 7:18. Assuming they want it to be...
My reading of the tea leaves to estimate the contributions to the time difference would be a little different, however. I also see the RS ring time as mainly bounded by brand positioning (can't be as fast as than the 918, must leave room for the 991.2, must be a worthwhile improvement for the price premium, etc).
In particular I think Edmunds is wrong/ misunderstood, and RWS will be functional when TC is off (and the car is not sliding). Otherwise the car will handle poorly with TC off, being particularly susceptible to high speed oversteer- I see no reason Porsche would do that.
My reading of the tea leaves to estimate the contributions to the time difference would be a little different, however. I also see the RS ring time as mainly bounded by brand positioning (can't be as fast as than the 918, must leave room for the 991.2, must be a worthwhile improvement for the price premium, etc).
In particular I think Edmunds is wrong/ misunderstood, and RWS will be functional when TC is off (and the car is not sliding). Otherwise the car will handle poorly with TC off, being particularly susceptible to high speed oversteer- I see no reason Porsche would do that.
07-02-2013, 07:55 PM
#7
Race Director
I agree with your conclusion- the RS will be around 7:18. Assuming they want it to be...
My reading of the tea leaves to estimate the contributions to the time difference would be a little different, however. I also see the RS ring time as mainly bounded by brand positioning (can't be as fast as than the 918, must leave room for the 991.2, must be a worthwhile improvement for the price premium, etc).
In particular I think Edmunds is wrong/ misunderstood, and RWS will be functional when TC is off (and the car is not sliding). Otherwise the car will handle poorly with TC off, being particularly susceptible to high speed oversteer- I see no reason Porsche would do that.
My reading of the tea leaves to estimate the contributions to the time difference would be a little different, however. I also see the RS ring time as mainly bounded by brand positioning (can't be as fast as than the 918, must leave room for the 991.2, must be a worthwhile improvement for the price premium, etc).
In particular I think Edmunds is wrong/ misunderstood, and RWS will be functional when TC is off (and the car is not sliding). Otherwise the car will handle poorly with TC off, being particularly susceptible to high speed oversteer- I see no reason Porsche would do that.
Also edmunds is prob wrong.
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07-02-2013, 08:37 PM
#8
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Yeah, I could be wrong, but I doubt RWS turns off. Maybe the 'locking' they referred to is the rear differential.
07-02-2013, 08:52 PM
#9
The RS has a different compound of MPSC? Never heard this in my life or any data from any literature? Can you site a source?
07-03-2013, 04:57 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Chris Harris mentioned that RWS locks when drifting, but thanks to the Edmunds (InsideLine) reveal, it is RWS not functioning at all when PSM is Off and TC is Off. PSM/TC-Off is the setting used for fastest lap times, so this gizmo RWS has been added for extra comfort and ease of use when driving without fastest laps as a goal.
RWS has zero impact on the 991 GT3 maximum performance, as extracting the maximum performance means disabling RWS.
I have no data on the MPSC-2 tires, but I do on the Dunlop SportMaxxRace (g-forces on several turns). I bet to say this new Dunlop and the new MPSC-2 are 1% faster over a 60 secs course (0.6secs faster, compared to the old MPSC N-Spec and the CorsaSystem. The data was obtained from the Motor Trend test on the C63-Black. At the Nurburgring these new tires alone would account for a 4 secs difference, compared to the old Corsa/MPSC-NSpec.
As a side note, one of the reasons the 997.2 GT3RS was that much faster than the 997.2 GT3 at the Ring (7 seconds faster) was the compound used on the RS rear tire. This was documented by Sport Auto. In reality, and on equal tires, the 7.2 GT3RS is not that much faster than the 7.2 GT3 on a typical road course, it is faster but not by such margin. Contrary to the U.S. market where the 7.2 GT3 came with Sofa seats, in Europe the cars have nearly identical weight.
Based on the advantage on upshifts between PDK-S and a conventional manual transmission, as explained by Andreas Preuninger, every upshift the PDK-S takes a 3/4 of car length advantage. At the Nurburgring, the 991GT3 travels at a little over 150ft/second, and a lap at the Ring contains 50+ upshifts. PDK-S is accountable for another 4 secs advantage at the Ring, not including any advantage it can gain on downshifts (by reducing braking distances). In my experience with the 60ms F1 in the Fiat, the Fiat jumps 1.25 cars ahead on upshift from 1st to 2nd, about 1 car length from 2nd-3rd, and about 3/4 of a car from 3rd-4th, so AP information matches what I have witnessed playing at the local drag strips.
In between the 7.2RS 3.8 and the 4.0, the main difference is the 50Hp. The weight difference is minimal at just 22 lbs (insignificant for a 3,300+ lbs car with half fuel and driver). On the dyno, the 3.8 RS and the 4.0 RS are closer than the claimed 50Hp difference, actual power difference is more like 40Hp, similar to the power difference between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991GT3. Aero in the 3.8RS and 4.0RS is nearly identical. The 4.0RS lapped 6 secs faster than the 3.8RS per Porsche official (and not proven) figures.
At the Ring the official Porsche lap times are 7:25 and 7:40, with PDK-S saving around 4 secs, tires saving another 4 secs, and the extra power saving around 6 secs.
This leaves just 1 second on performance to explain, which is the balance between the 991 carrying an extra 77 lbs of weight (bad), the better 991 weight distribution (slightly better), the longer wheelbase (good), fat front tires (good), wider front track (good), wider front wheel (good), more unsprung weight (bad), closer gear ratios (good). A 77 lbs weight increase costs nearly 3 secs at a racetrack as long as the Ring, despite of this handicap, the new car is still 1 second ahead (ignoring PDK-S, tires, power). So all the chassis/suspension/gearing specs are accounting to another 4 secs improvement.
Summary:
Tires: -4 secs
Extra Power: -6 secs
PDK-S: -4 secs
Chassis/Suspension/Gearing: -4 secs
Extra 77 weight and added Sprung Weight: + 3 secs
RWS: No improvement
These are not exact numbers, but a good baseline on where the performance difference is found between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991 GT3.
With just a 66 lbs weight reduction, a lot more downforce, and wider rear tires, the next 991 GT3 RS should be capable of hitting 7:18 (7 secs drop from the 991 GT3), matching the fastest ever road Porsche at the Ring, the 620Hp 997 GT2 RS. If the 991 GT3 RS gains extra power over the 991 GT3 (and I'm sure it will), it will break under 7:18, and put all the car brands in the rearview mirror except the mighty ACR and the LFA-Nurb.
Porsche might get its crown back like it had many years ago with the 996 GT3, when all other manufacturers were chasing Porsche at the Ring instead of the current reality of Porsche chasing all of them (except Fiat/Lambo because they are crappy cars on a racetrack).
RWS has zero impact on the 991 GT3 maximum performance, as extracting the maximum performance means disabling RWS.
I have no data on the MPSC-2 tires, but I do on the Dunlop SportMaxxRace (g-forces on several turns). I bet to say this new Dunlop and the new MPSC-2 are 1% faster over a 60 secs course (0.6secs faster, compared to the old MPSC N-Spec and the CorsaSystem. The data was obtained from the Motor Trend test on the C63-Black. At the Nurburgring these new tires alone would account for a 4 secs difference, compared to the old Corsa/MPSC-NSpec.
As a side note, one of the reasons the 997.2 GT3RS was that much faster than the 997.2 GT3 at the Ring (7 seconds faster) was the compound used on the RS rear tire. This was documented by Sport Auto. In reality, and on equal tires, the 7.2 GT3RS is not that much faster than the 7.2 GT3 on a typical road course, it is faster but not by such margin. Contrary to the U.S. market where the 7.2 GT3 came with Sofa seats, in Europe the cars have nearly identical weight.
Based on the advantage on upshifts between PDK-S and a conventional manual transmission, as explained by Andreas Preuninger, every upshift the PDK-S takes a 3/4 of car length advantage. At the Nurburgring, the 991GT3 travels at a little over 150ft/second, and a lap at the Ring contains 50+ upshifts. PDK-S is accountable for another 4 secs advantage at the Ring, not including any advantage it can gain on downshifts (by reducing braking distances). In my experience with the 60ms F1 in the Fiat, the Fiat jumps 1.25 cars ahead on upshift from 1st to 2nd, about 1 car length from 2nd-3rd, and about 3/4 of a car from 3rd-4th, so AP information matches what I have witnessed playing at the local drag strips.
In between the 7.2RS 3.8 and the 4.0, the main difference is the 50Hp. The weight difference is minimal at just 22 lbs (insignificant for a 3,300+ lbs car with half fuel and driver). On the dyno, the 3.8 RS and the 4.0 RS are closer than the claimed 50Hp difference, actual power difference is more like 40Hp, similar to the power difference between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991GT3. Aero in the 3.8RS and 4.0RS is nearly identical. The 4.0RS lapped 6 secs faster than the 3.8RS per Porsche official (and not proven) figures.
At the Ring the official Porsche lap times are 7:25 and 7:40, with PDK-S saving around 4 secs, tires saving another 4 secs, and the extra power saving around 6 secs.
This leaves just 1 second on performance to explain, which is the balance between the 991 carrying an extra 77 lbs of weight (bad), the better 991 weight distribution (slightly better), the longer wheelbase (good), fat front tires (good), wider front track (good), wider front wheel (good), more unsprung weight (bad), closer gear ratios (good). A 77 lbs weight increase costs nearly 3 secs at a racetrack as long as the Ring, despite of this handicap, the new car is still 1 second ahead (ignoring PDK-S, tires, power). So all the chassis/suspension/gearing specs are accounting to another 4 secs improvement.
Summary:
Tires: -4 secs
Extra Power: -6 secs
PDK-S: -4 secs
Chassis/Suspension/Gearing: -4 secs
Extra 77 weight and added Sprung Weight: + 3 secs
RWS: No improvement
These are not exact numbers, but a good baseline on where the performance difference is found between the 7.2 GT3 and the 991 GT3.
With just a 66 lbs weight reduction, a lot more downforce, and wider rear tires, the next 991 GT3 RS should be capable of hitting 7:18 (7 secs drop from the 991 GT3), matching the fastest ever road Porsche at the Ring, the 620Hp 997 GT2 RS. If the 991 GT3 RS gains extra power over the 991 GT3 (and I'm sure it will), it will break under 7:18, and put all the car brands in the rearview mirror except the mighty ACR and the LFA-Nurb.
Porsche might get its crown back like it had many years ago with the 996 GT3, when all other manufacturers were chasing Porsche at the Ring instead of the current reality of Porsche chasing all of them (except Fiat/Lambo because they are crappy cars on a racetrack).
If you go to the thread called "991 GT2" you will find alot of speculation about the 991 GT3RS.
Some of the points you mention are valid and some are not.
The Edmunds article is far from comprehensive and infact is incorrect. I called my mate Claus at the factory and he says the RWS stays on ALL THE TIME (see factory documentation attached). Moreover it is indeed fundamental to the improved Ring time and the equivalent of adding 70 bhp over equivalent distance/course (Porsche engineers words not mine).
That tire information is interesting but a 1% change in performance between tire types is akin to a margin of error similar to time between two identical tires with slightly different wear on them.
You make some other interesting points. We have covered the power to weight ratio of the 4.0RS, 997.2 GT3 & RS in the other thread. The 4.0RS weights 1365kg, has 339lbft and 493 bhp. The 991 GT3 has 1430kg, 324lbft and 460 bhp. Any yet there is a few seconds between them on comparable tires. Looking at the torque and weight ratios the 4.0RS is well ahead. Lets call the tires and aer0 even for a second. The advantage appears to come form the improved chassis (front end grip), RWS and PDK. On a track like the Ring the PDK probably adds more stability and reliability (no money shifts) and clutch wear (miss matched heel & toe) than a professionally driven MT (Timo Kluck etc) than huge performance gains. But I think your estimate is in the ball park. I estimate the RWS is worth 3-4 seconds. All of the other benefits are cancelled by the RS 4.0RS superior power and torque to weight ratio.
Also I can tell you 7.25 was not the lowest time clocked on the Ring by the 991 GT3. It is capable of a bit better as Im sure time will tell.
Lastly I agree the 991 GT3RS (100% PDK only by the way and looking a bit fugly IMHO with those rear guards) will post 7.18-7.20.
07-03-2013, 05:03 AM
#11
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P.S. What I think you will find CH meant in his brief interview is that if you throw the 991 GT3 from oversteer to extreme understeer (to illicit the rear to break away) at the point of break away the RWS system will nutralise itself and lock in the "normal" position (i.e. 0 degrees of toe correction). With a move like the one CH carried out (corner oversteer power slide) whilst mentioning the feature I dont think it would make sense for the car to be fighting this particular manouvor.
07-03-2013, 09:14 AM
#12
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It'll be interesting to see what the car puts down in R&T's slalom test (if Porsche lets them drive another one), given that the 997 GT3's already held some of the highest numbers on record.
07-03-2013, 10:58 AM
#13
Car will be available soon enough.
It will be faster than the 997.2RS. Apples to apples - on the same tires, same track, same day, same driver. Considerably so. Am ready to put money on that.
It will be faster than the 997.2RS. Apples to apples - on the same tires, same track, same day, same driver. Considerably so. Am ready to put money on that.
07-03-2013, 12:41 PM
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What's disappointing is that with all of the improvements the car still can't beat a C6Z06 around the nurburgring. Even with it's 70 hp RWS that would make it essentially a 550 hp car according to Porsche since no one else has the RWS. Wider, Lower, Paddles, 550 hp (probably underrated) and still slower than a 2012 out of production Z07/Centennial Z06 with 505 hp, stick shift, leaf springs, 2000 less revs.
That is disturbing and does not add up. Sounds like Porsche need to get off of the simulator and stop giving TBL's. Not for a second buying that they are claiming a lap time 3 seconds slower than they actually ran.
That is disturbing and does not add up. Sounds like Porsche need to get off of the simulator and stop giving TBL's. Not for a second buying that they are claiming a lap time 3 seconds slower than they actually ran.
07-03-2013, 12:50 PM
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Oh, and yet another journo who finds the deletion of manual nonsensical. It's nonsense.
And makes it even less plausible that they would claim a ring time WAY slower than they actually ran if AP said they did PDK to keep up with the competition. That would be so contradictory it's not even funny. They are already TBL's, how can you pick a TBL that's slower than an actual lap?
And makes it even less plausible that they would claim a ring time WAY slower than they actually ran if AP said they did PDK to keep up with the competition. That would be so contradictory it's not even funny. They are already TBL's, how can you pick a TBL that's slower than an actual lap?