Mike in CA

It may or may not be slower, but since we've heard only generic estimates, have seen no hard numbers, no information on who may have been driving, or any details regarding the conditions of the test, I'd say the jury is still out.

wanna911

All of Porsche's numbers except the 991 S are generic numbers. TBL's are generic, and seem to always end in .00

Mike in CA

When I say generic, I mean that we have only heard the 7:25 time anecdotally.

Other testers besides Porsche publish specific times (Autobild, Evo, Sport Auto, for example) as can be seen in the list here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

All I'm suggesting is that no one, AFAIK, has tested the 991 GT3 and published hard numbers, therefore we have no real way to compare it to the Z06 yet and know whether it's slower or not.

wanna911

I disagree, Porsche told CH what the nurburgring time was. He didn't pull that out of a hat, and he said 7:25. That was the first time that I know of that a direct time was given. The rest were all ballpark numbers < whatever.

Mike in CA

Disagree with what?

What do you know about how the time was achieved; driver, tires, prototype, production car, etc.? Nothing. Besides, you've said yourself that Porsche's times are unreliable, imprecise, and usually unpublished so why would you rely just on word of mouth about them now to make your comparison with the Z06?

When Sport Auto, Evo, etc. do independent tests, or Porsche posts hard numbers and details or a video, we'll have something relevant to discuss.

wanna911

All of a sudden you are going to act like CH is unreliable, and that Porsche would tell him a slow time knowing it would be released to the world via one of the most popular outlets there is? You couldn't be any more backwards.

Since when has Porsche released preliminary testing results to the press? You are just plain making stuff up now.

And since when does Porsche release detailed information about the setup on the car when they report a time? Please show me where they have done that consistently (or at all) that we should expect that!

Porsche isn't likely going to post a video #1 because it's already slow compared to the competition, and #2 because their track record shows that they just aren't likely to do it.

I never said Porsche's times were unreliable, get your facts straight. I said they never happened, which all of the ones ending in .00 DID NOT HAPPEN. They were TBL's and Porsche has admitted to reporting TBL's.

Always trying to introduce doubt to persuade people in a direction of thinking that supports your case.

Macca

Dude you have a attitude problem. You need to calm down.

As we discussed many threads ago HP is not the answer alone to a fast Ring time. Even if as you say the relative HP of the 991 GT3 is 469+70 bhp the fly in the ointment will always be other cars like the Nissan GTR which make less power (officially at least) than cars like the 997GT2/RS but post the same or better lap times. Torque to weight is also part of the equation.

As for the "published" ring time for the 991 GT3. AP finally moved from "under 7.30" to "7.25" but gave no other information of detail. I can tell you for a fact the first test drivers got 7.26 out of the car and it wasnt on final settings. Ive been saying this on here for a long time. Porsche test drivers wills record a variety of test lap times to establish the approximate max lap capability of a car. They dont typically choose the lowest figure but often the median. The 991S is case in point. The figure was later bettered using a car with some options.

Porsche will choose a fastest lap time for the 991 GT3 from a series of results they have got from their test drivers best lap. In this case it seems thay have chosen 7.25. In actual fact is probably a median or mean figure but thats what they have announced in press so that is what the official record will show. If Timmo Kluck is written up in Christophorus in 12 months as having managed a 7.2375 lap time at the Ring in the 991 GT3 then that is not surprising either. Its very arbitrary and for a course that long may be down to the temps of the tyres on the day, the relative humidity, temperature etc

Mike in CA

I'm not "acting" like anything. I didn't say CH was unreliable. He no doubt reported what he was told. If he was told who was driving and whether the car was a production car or a test mule or any other details, however, he didn't disclose that. Seems to me that kind of info would be important especially for someone like you who wants to see actual times and videos for everyone who tracks their car.

Show me where I said Porsche would be releasing preliminary testing results to the press. What I said was that when Porsche did release hard numbers, as in when they decide to do a published test like the one with the 991 S, or when anyone did a test with hard numbers, then we'd have something legitimate to talk about.

Christophorus magazine issue 359 pgs 60-64 for the 991S test. I didn't say detailed setup, I said details which means options and equipment on the car, driver, and precise specific times as opposed to no details and approximate times which is what we have for the time CH quoted.

That's confusing. Are you now saying the 7:25 time (which ends in .00 BTW) DID NOT HAPPEN? In that case, how can you use a time which didn't happen or is an approximation to compare to the Z06? It's probably just me, but if someone claims something happened when it really didn't that makes them unreliable. Maybe you have a different understanding of what unreliable means....

I'm not introducing doubt or pushing a "case". To the contrary, I'm suggesting we dispel doubt. Bottom line, I simply said that to have a meaningful comparison between the 991 GT3 and the Z06 we need a meaningful and probably independent test of the 991 GT3, which we don't yet have. Somehow you found a way to disagree about that. Incredible....

Nick

The Z06 did the Ring in 7:22 using a running start. It was specially equipped with the following:The 505HP Corvette Z06 that was tested at the Nürburgring was fitted with the Z07 chassis package that includes the new optional Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure tires, Brembo carbon ceramic brakes, Performance Traction Management and Magnetic Selective Ride Control, plus an array of carbon fiber components such as the hood, front splitter and rockers, and aerodynamic improvements.

As I read this, it was not a normal factory produced Z06.

More importantly, I could give a rats *** what the Z06 did. I can afford to buy several Z06's but I rather buy one 991GT3.

kfmcmahon

oh boy. Where to start?

reidry

The equipment on the Z06 that ran the ring in 7:22 is a factory option known as the Z07 package, while it was not a vanilla Z06, it is certainly a production car in a configuration any prospective buyer could have ordered during the final years of C6 production.

I have personally owned a 2009 Corvette Z06 and currently own a 2010 Corvette ZR1. Both cars are extremely capable, however their are significant differences between a Chevrolet product and a Porsche product. Chevrolet has come a long way since the 60's and 70's and so has Porsche, though the build quality and materials selection of the high end GM products is just now approaching the level of Mercedes and Porsche.

I have not seen a C7 Corvette in person so I will have to reserve comment on the fit, finish and materials. As for the C6 generation they are good cars, reliable, come with an excellent warranty and go like he**. The fit and finish of the C6 has never rivaled German quality, for example the build quality of my wife's Mercedes E63 AMG is far superior.

I read an article that described some of the feel and sound of build quality, the confident thump of shutting the door, the way latches fit and engage. I think, for me, the 991 based GT3 will add some of this to my sports car enjoyment.

In my particular case it also adds the ability for my wife to drive as though she shares my deep love of automobiles, she struggles to drive a manual.

Personally I have respect for every Marque and am happy to be alive when so many great cars are available.

Ryan

kfmcmahon

correct on Z07, just like PCCB's and Michelin PSC's, PTV and PDCC in the GT3, hardly "specially equipped". You're ZR1 doesn't thump? Mine does.

I agree with your last statement as well, I defend my 991 GT3 order over on CF as well

Nick

Were all those carbon fiber components options on the Z06? FWIW, I was not knocking the Z01. For the money it is a great value. But as a prior owner of a Corvette years ago, I would rather be driving a Porsche.

Also, my view is that Ring times are often manipulated to meet company executive expectations. Otherwise, the engineers and brand will suffer inside and outside the company.

frayed

A few seconds on a 7 minute track is in the noise. And so what? 'ring laptimes are strictly for the C&C crowd.

Oh yeah, for the hard core interweb racers.

I view these datapoints as interesting and fun to talk about, but don't put so much weight in them that I'm gonna blow a blood vessel.

Petevb

Yes. Z06 with Z07 option and carbon package or CFZ carbon fiber package ran about 100k +/- out the door, basically the fastest Z06 you can factory spec. Impressive car.

I agree with the idea that on any given day with equal drivers the new GT3 may well be slightly quicker given the differences in the way the factories approach testing and reporting. I also agree that any difference is essentially academic and not worth arguing over.