10 GT3

I agree on your points for the previous gens (996/997), but I have a feeling the 991 is going to be very different. A few key things to keep in mind:
1. None of the drivetrain components are common with the race cars this time around
2. The 991 GT3 gets the same no-steering feel electronic power steering as the Carrera, with just a software change
3. The rear steering is an attempt to remove some of the driver involvement with handling (Do the race cars have it? ...no)
4. For the first time, the Turbo model puts down faster ring times than the GT3 does (times quoted straight from Porsche)

Given the complete lack of racing pedigree with the new model, the only reason I can see to buy one is you can't afford the Turbo...which is now not only faster at the track, but more livable the rest of the time.

GrantG

Completely different driving personalities. Where I live in Denver, the Turbo has often been the faster track car than the GT3 (due to the power made by a turbocharged engine at altitude), but I would always choose the GT3 for track work. Most people don't just pick the car with the fastest laptimes (that they can afford). If they did, neither the Turbo nor the GT3 would be the best option.

Mike in CA

1. Porsche execs have stated that this time the street car is being developed before the race car. If there is still no race-street connection a year or so from now, we'll have something to talk about.
2. "Just a software change" is the whole point. Since there is still a mechanical connection to the wheels, how the electric assist motor is programmed is critical to how the GT3 steering will be different from the normal 991. The GT3 development team says it will vastly different. Seems to me they should be given a chance to prove it before it's declared "no feel".
3. That's not true. RWS works only in response to driver input, provides no self correction features, and it's simply a more precise, versatile, and effective variation of the passive RWS built into every Porsche chassis already. The race cars don't have it because active suspension tech (including adaptive shocks like PASM) is illegal for cost reasons and because it can give an unfair advantage, not because it takes anything away from the driver or doesn't work well.
4. The only reference to Ring times mentioned by Porsche for the GT3 is that it's "under 7:30". There are no hard numbers yet published that can be used for comparison with the TT.

wanna911

The cup car is already out.......

Mike in CA

For this year, which obviously is before the first new production 991 GT3 has even been built. It's the future Cup cars that are likely to use the new engine........

frayed

10 gt3 do you write harlequin romance novels as well?

destaccado

Do you consistently berate other posters with nothing of substance to add to the discussion? Don't bother answering...

destaccado

What I've read on these forums from people supposedly "in the know" is that orders for more Mezger engines have already been placed. If the new engine is ever going to be used, it most likely won't be until the 991.2 Cup and guessing on what motor will be used by then is nothing more than conjecture...

However, if I were a betting man they won't use the 9a1 because as far as I know it can't be rebuilt easily like the Mezger can...Further, when's the last time Porsche put their race motor in the regular street car first? I have yet to read anything reliable saying the cup car is getting the 9a1 motor in the future - I'd love to see your source.

CAlexio

Outside of historical context or "pedigree".. When you take it down to the core materials and design, and remove all the emotion.. What is better or special about the mezger engine?...

alexb76

You know what guys... after reading all of the threads that I missed since last visited, I've basically come to final conclusion that 991 GT3 is NOT a GT3 by definition... all of the other arguments here to the contrary just does not make sense.

Again, the point and my question was, IS THIS A TRUE GT3 by definition... not if it's faster, if it's more refined, if it's a better car, if it's the right direction for the business, etc...

What is the definition of GT3 up until now? A 911 that is (a) lighter, (b) manual, (c) shares part with cup car, (d) is built for track, (e) rawest 911 and closest to race car, (f) is a good platform for tracking meaning it can be built/maintained/setup for track, AND (g) faster.

991 GT3 does not match NONE of the above but being faster. It is heavier, PDK (cannot be rebuilt), doesn't share parts with Cup, slower than Turbo on track, not as raw due to all electronics/rear steering, 20inch wheels, electric steering, has a very unproven platform and extremely difficult to maintain/setup for track.

Again, no one said it's not a better car, it is, but since there is a zillion varieties of 911, Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera 4S, Targa, Turbo, GT3, GT2, GT2 RS, Turbo S, etc... they could have easily kept the GT3 different and stick to the formula, they did not for purely business reasons and it is what it is.

For many this is fine, and works great, and I totally understand arguments for wanting to buy this car, or appreciate the refinements or technology used. But, PLEASE, stop saying this car meets the criteria that defined GT3 and RS cars, it simply does not! Maybe the 991.2 GT3, would share parts with next generation of Cup Car? Who knows, till then, this is NOT by definition a GT3, end of the story.

Thanks for all your input, I didn't wanna cause flame wars here, but I wanted to understand if there is any argument to the contrary and I basically learned that there is no valid argument to classify this car a GT3. So, for me, when I come to that decision to get a GT3, mostly for track duties, this definitely won't be it. 991 as replacement for Carrera makes more sense IMO.

alexb76

Race proven and reliable platform. They entered a STOCK GT3 RS in the Nurburgring 24hrs race and they beat dedicated race cars with it. After, they drove it 4hrs on street back home.

destaccado

...and I believe resale values a few years down the road will prove this to be exactly the case as the new faster appliance replaces this one. Until then though, the 991 GT3 should be a real treat to drive on the street and may even be the most fun everyday street car Porsche has ever made...

Mike in CA

I don't think your "most likely" is any more correct than my "likely" so since neither one of us really knows it's rather pointless to argue about this. It may have been Michael Macht who said that rather than derive the street car from the race car this time around, instead the race car would be developed from the street car, but having read so much on this I can't remember whose quote it was exactly. It's late, maybe I can find it tomorrow.

Regardless, as I said above, if in a year or so from now there is still no link between the race and street car then we'll have something to talk about. Right now it's all speculation.

Mike in CA

So the car that makes more sense to you for "track duties" to replace your Carrera will be a 991 instead of a 991 GT3? I don't understand. Or are you planning to buy a dedicated track car and a street car to replace your 997? Given the price delta between a GT3 and a suitably equipped 991S that you can take to the track, it's hard to see why the 991S would be a better choice.

destaccado

Why do we have to wait a year to talk about it? The 2014 Cup Car does not equal the 2014 GT3. If Porsche changes that fact 2 or 5 or 10 years from now we can talk about that then. As of now -- the connection between the Cup car and the GT3 simply doesn't exist.