The first I hate that the new GT3 doesnt have a clutch thread
03-05-2013, 02:33 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
03-05-2013, 02:40 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
in 911slow's poll, i too voted no manual, not interested.
but the reality is when the rave reviews on this beast start trickling out, the performance numbers and so-called expert opinion is going to set gt3 sales on fire. gt3 will probably bring in a whole new lot of previously non-porsche buyers. despite the 'i'm not a marketing guy' comment by ap, there's clearly been a lot of marketing that pag has thought through. they want this car to convert ferrari and lambo folks as much as keeping on the porschephile faithfuls. to pag, the amazing numbers that will come out of this iteration will be the means justifying the end.
but the reality is when the rave reviews on this beast start trickling out, the performance numbers and so-called expert opinion is going to set gt3 sales on fire. gt3 will probably bring in a whole new lot of previously non-porsche buyers. despite the 'i'm not a marketing guy' comment by ap, there's clearly been a lot of marketing that pag has thought through. they want this car to convert ferrari and lambo folks as much as keeping on the porschephile faithfuls. to pag, the amazing numbers that will come out of this iteration will be the means justifying the end.
03-05-2013, 02:42 AM
#48
Drifting
03-05-2013, 02:56 AM
#49
As an avid heel toe-er I agree with some of the sentiment here, but the PDK in my 991 appeals to my tech side. It is amazingly advanced and if you get bored put it in full manual and enjoy being able to focus on other parts of the driving experience and not the clutch.
Aslo, Michael Schumacher probably hasn't raced something with a clutch pedal in years. Perhaps we should just get rid of synchros on all of the manual cars - I mean how uninvolving is the experience when the transmission matches the gear speed for you, it's just not involving if I don't have to double clutch...sheesh.
To those who returned their deposits there will be plenty of buyers to fill your place in line.
Aslo, Michael Schumacher probably hasn't raced something with a clutch pedal in years. Perhaps we should just get rid of synchros on all of the manual cars - I mean how uninvolving is the experience when the transmission matches the gear speed for you, it's just not involving if I don't have to double clutch...sheesh.
To those who returned their deposits there will be plenty of buyers to fill your place in line.
03-05-2013, 04:40 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
The 991 GT3 would need to have three pedals for me to want one. PDK is faster, foolproof, and would be my choice as a dedicated car for track days. However, in reality, I only get to the track a few times per year (although when I am there, I run in A groups, so I can appreciate a real track-worthy car). For Sunday drives through the canyons, only a fool pushes a car like this near its limits, so the entertainment value for me is the involvement of a sports car, not necessarily pushing of the envelope. And I do not consider activating an electronic switch "involvement".
My 997 was an automatic, and it was the last Porsche that I used both on the track and as a daily driver. Although the transmission itself sucked, the concept worked for me (although it was primarily to appease the wife - it was to be her car). But I find the GT3 too flamboyant to drive daily, so I do not see it filling that role (and life has changed since then, necessitating a more practical daily driver).
So I am stuck with 'lesser' or used Porsche models, or another brand, if I want a manual transmission. As somebody that (prior to my Spyder) has always had a 911 in some form for the 20-something years of my entire adult life, it is irritating to be abandoned by the brand.
Porsche knows we are out here. They made the Spyder, and both the press and buyers ate it up. If not the GT3, throw us another bone with some more power - perhaps the 50th Anniversary model will be more than a paint-and-upholstery 'special edition', and actually be a 911 without computer controlled transmission, suspension, differential, rear steering, etc., but with what appears to be a fantastic new engine. One can hope...
My 997 was an automatic, and it was the last Porsche that I used both on the track and as a daily driver. Although the transmission itself sucked, the concept worked for me (although it was primarily to appease the wife - it was to be her car). But I find the GT3 too flamboyant to drive daily, so I do not see it filling that role (and life has changed since then, necessitating a more practical daily driver).
So I am stuck with 'lesser' or used Porsche models, or another brand, if I want a manual transmission. As somebody that (prior to my Spyder) has always had a 911 in some form for the 20-something years of my entire adult life, it is irritating to be abandoned by the brand.
Porsche knows we are out here. They made the Spyder, and both the press and buyers ate it up. If not the GT3, throw us another bone with some more power - perhaps the 50th Anniversary model will be more than a paint-and-upholstery 'special edition', and actually be a 911 without computer controlled transmission, suspension, differential, rear steering, etc., but with what appears to be a fantastic new engine. One can hope...
I share your sentiment, but maybe Porsche has not really abandoned us. Before we come to this conclusion, we need to see if they offer a 6 MT in the turbo. If they do, the turbo can be our soul stirring canyon carver as well as the occasional track car, while allowing et the GT3 be a dedicated tool for track guys who care only about the fastest time possible.
03-05-2013, 06:23 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
I share your sentiment, but maybe Porsche has not really abandoned us. Before we come to this conclusion, we need to see if they offer a 6 MT in the turbo. If they do, the turbo can be our soul stirring canyon carver as well as the occasional track car, while allowing et the GT3 be a dedicated tool for track guys who care only about the fastest time possible.
03-05-2013, 07:01 AM
#52
Race Car
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Performance and lap times critical? Lol. How many people buy GT3's for that? This has to be the mecca of i dont care if i get passed i like the driver involvement world. PDK is a bandaid for a bigger problem that will still have to be addressed. The competition. Fast shifts wont overcome torque. Every car will get faster and the GT3 is still coming out slower than the last generation Corvette, GTR VIPER who by the way are after Porsche customers while Porsche reaches for a smaller group of Ferrari people.
And that makes business sense?
And that makes business sense?
03-05-2013, 08:58 AM
#53
I agree that a manual should be an option for sure. On a car like this, it seems laughable that it would not be.
But this thread reminds me of an ancient post on m3forum.net years back, where you'd frequently have spirited discussions on the merits of smg vs the manual.
"oh no not the clutch, dass wha mah knee is fo, is fo clutchin"
This was back in the time when lolcats were just starting to be popular and so that sorta forum gibberish speak was hilarious. This thread brought me back to moments like those from 6 or 7 years ago.
But this thread reminds me of an ancient post on m3forum.net years back, where you'd frequently have spirited discussions on the merits of smg vs the manual.
"oh no not the clutch, dass wha mah knee is fo, is fo clutchin"
This was back in the time when lolcats were just starting to be popular and so that sorta forum gibberish speak was hilarious. This thread brought me back to moments like those from 6 or 7 years ago.
Last edited by zirrah; 03-05-2013 at 10:38 AM.
03-05-2013, 09:52 AM
#54
Platinum Dealership
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It's still funny to me that we were constantly reading stuff about a pdk "not being able to handle the revs" or "not being able to handle the torque" and this thing comes out and revs to 9k. although the tQ figure at 324 lb-ft is basically the same as it has been for the last 3 cars.
wanna911 has a point- the Zr1, ACR viper etc are just as trackable as a porsche but are miles faster due to much more engine.
All these evolutionary steps with porsche are not so much turning points for the brand but in a way turning points for how we evaluate cars- at some point as we age (some more than others) we will decide to put our foot down and say "I'm not spending that much money to get a new car that is only a little better than my old car"- unless you have unlimited funds (sheik money) eventually there is the one passionate car that you end up keeping because you can't afford to indefinitely upgrade. or you outgrow a certain segment altogether because you allocate your time differently (for now I'm more interested in motorcycles and racing Grand-AM then doing DE/Trackday stuff)
for some people that is a GT3RS. compared to the 991 I'd rather go get a brand new 6spd boxster S- just fun, and only fun. The 991 body type and center stack and 7 speed manual don't appeal to me.
I love the dual clutch in my MP4. LOVE IT. but to me I'd be thinking about going back to an older 90k RS with 6-spd and getting a 65k boxster S as the spouse-mobile for the price of what the new RS will end up costing 150-160K with options.
but that is the brilliant thing about our positions- none of us has a gun to our heads- it's just free will. buy what you want.
to all the guys that are in with both feet on the 991GT3- enjoy it! it looks awesome and should be really unbeatable on the track for precision.
wanna911 has a point- the Zr1, ACR viper etc are just as trackable as a porsche but are miles faster due to much more engine.
All these evolutionary steps with porsche are not so much turning points for the brand but in a way turning points for how we evaluate cars- at some point as we age (some more than others) we will decide to put our foot down and say "I'm not spending that much money to get a new car that is only a little better than my old car"- unless you have unlimited funds (sheik money) eventually there is the one passionate car that you end up keeping because you can't afford to indefinitely upgrade. or you outgrow a certain segment altogether because you allocate your time differently (for now I'm more interested in motorcycles and racing Grand-AM then doing DE/Trackday stuff)
for some people that is a GT3RS. compared to the 991 I'd rather go get a brand new 6spd boxster S- just fun, and only fun. The 991 body type and center stack and 7 speed manual don't appeal to me.
I love the dual clutch in my MP4. LOVE IT. but to me I'd be thinking about going back to an older 90k RS with 6-spd and getting a 65k boxster S as the spouse-mobile for the price of what the new RS will end up costing 150-160K with options.
but that is the brilliant thing about our positions- none of us has a gun to our heads- it's just free will. buy what you want.
to all the guys that are in with both feet on the 991GT3- enjoy it! it looks awesome and should be really unbeatable on the track for precision.
03-05-2013, 09:58 AM
#55
Racer
I dont believe Andreas Pruminger's pronouncemounts any more. Here's two examples why :
Re PDK and Paddles ( what he said at the Gen 2 RS Launch in 2010 )
no heavy, flappy paddle gearbox (Preuninger: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging") Source Top Gear
And EVO re the 3.8 Engine.
He claimed they would not make an RS Engine with 4.0 Litres as it would never rev enough for true Enthusiasts.
Now he's at it again !!!!!!!!!
Re PDK and Paddles ( what he said at the Gen 2 RS Launch in 2010 )
no heavy, flappy paddle gearbox (Preuninger: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging") Source Top Gear
And EVO re the 3.8 Engine.
He claimed they would not make an RS Engine with 4.0 Litres as it would never rev enough for true Enthusiasts.
Now he's at it again !!!!!!!!!
03-05-2013, 10:06 AM
#56
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I dont believe Andreas Pruminger's pronouncemounts any more. Here's two examples why :
Re PDK and Paddles ( what he said at the Gen 2 RS Launch in 2010 )
no heavy, flappy paddle gearbox (Preuninger: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging") Source Top Gear
And EVO re the 3.8 Engine.
He claimed they would not make an RS Engine with 4.0 Litres as it would never rev enough for true Enthusiasts.
Now he's at it again !!!!!!!!!
Re PDK and Paddles ( what he said at the Gen 2 RS Launch in 2010 )
no heavy, flappy paddle gearbox (Preuninger: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging") Source Top Gear
And EVO re the 3.8 Engine.
He claimed they would not make an RS Engine with 4.0 Litres as it would never rev enough for true Enthusiasts.
Now he's at it again !!!!!!!!!
That said, I'm not giving up hope yet. Remember, the bean counters eventually lost the argument on sunroofs....
03-05-2013, 11:30 AM
#58
03-05-2013, 11:45 AM
#59
Three Wheelin'
I just don't see anything special about this new 'GT3' - except (maybe) the engine.
Being 9A1 derived, it seems like it would be an almost easy swap into a Cayman.. giving me a choice of transmissions and no CLs in a mid-engine car.
Make that car available at the same price, and I'd buy it.
Being 9A1 derived, it seems like it would be an almost easy swap into a Cayman.. giving me a choice of transmissions and no CLs in a mid-engine car.
Make that car available at the same price, and I'd buy it.
Last edited by stevecolletti; 03-05-2013 at 12:09 PM.
03-05-2013, 12:08 PM
#60
Race Car
This car is aimed the guys who need the latest and greatest in the garage, and the guys who want to win the DE Cup. Once both groups start getting passed by 991s, the tranny won't matter.
It will be the best selling GT3 yet.
It will be the best selling GT3 yet.