Notices
991 GT3, GT3RS, GT2RS and 911R 2012-2019
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Buying CPO 991.2 3RS with PCCB Rotor 'Wear'

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-22-2023, 11:18 PM
  #16  
Xec
Instructor
 
Xec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 206
Received 145 Likes on 80 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold
Based on listings on cars.com (admittedly asking prices, not sold prices), the price seems fair. What info are you seeing that makes you think it's quite pricey?
I think $240K should be Weissach Package money.

A friend bought a Miami WP, 8K miles, only missing option were the Mags for $250. There was a silver WP with full options and Mags, <10K miles also sold for $250. There’s a few other WP cars that have been sold in the $220-230 range at dealers and auction.

You’re not paying a terrible price but it’s more than I’d personally pay for a non-WP, 13k miles, heavily tracked car.
Old 06-22-2023, 11:23 PM
  #17  
Manifold
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,256
Received 4,460 Likes on 2,537 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by johnsopa
I think the numbers will get better if measured off the car but you’ll still see the relative difference front to rear.

With that type of difference front to rear I’m going to bet the car was tracked a good bit and by a driver that isn’t terribly skilled and really leans on PSM/PTV.
Yes, that's what I'm thinking.

Dealer is replacing all of the pads. The alignment and ride heights were at factory settings, but rear sway bar was set to soft, and front to stiff, so some tweaking was done to the setup.

Assuming that rotors get sorted out, is there anything else to be concerned about because the car was tracked? Can I trust the engine and transmission?
Old 06-22-2023, 11:27 PM
  #18  
Manifold
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,256
Received 4,460 Likes on 2,537 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Xec
I think $240K should be Weissach Package money.

A friend bought a Miami WP, 8K miles, only missing option were the Mags for $250. There was a silver WP with full options and Mags, <10K miles also sold for $250. There’s a few other WP cars that have been sold in the $220-230 range at dealers and auction.

You’re not paying a terrible price but it’s more than I’d personally pay for a non-WP, 13k miles, heavily tracked car.
When were those cars sold? I looked on BaT and don't see any sales in the past year down at the those prices. The car I'm looking at is $225k MSRP, full PPF, GMG roll bar, Schroth harnesses, CPO, Miami Blue.
Old 06-22-2023, 11:46 PM
  #19  
Xec
Instructor
 
Xec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 206
Received 145 Likes on 80 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold
When were those cars sold? I looked on BaT and don't see any sales in the past year down at the those prices. The car I'm looking at is $225k MSRP, full PPF, GMG roll bar, Schroth harnesses, CPO, Miami Blue.
The Miami car sold in April/May. It had some additional carbon fiber trim pieces also. The GT Silver car just sold this month.

Also not to mention some of the Weissach RS cars that have passed through DFW/Houston area dealers where I live that have all listed and quickly sold around $240-250K in the last few months.

Again, just my two cents but I don’t think $240K for this particular car is some screaming deal or anything. If this is THE spec for you then by all means but for me personally this is a MSRP car at best, especially with the heavy track use.
Old 06-22-2023, 11:54 PM
  #20  
inspire
Rennlist Member
 
inspire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 422
Received 125 Likes on 98 Posts
Default

I don't think $240K is a bad deal. Miami Blue 3RS aren't super common and usually fetch a small premium. I remember @FourT6and2 sold his Miami Blue 3RS for $255K in Feb which has plenty of track history as well.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...l#post18649478

Also values have gone up slightly from what I see compared to early this year, so keep note of that.

Last edited by inspire; 06-22-2023 at 11:58 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by inspire:
Larry Cable (06-23-2023), Manifold (06-23-2023)
Old 06-23-2023, 12:26 AM
  #21  
Manifold
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,256
Received 4,460 Likes on 2,537 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by inspire
I don't think $240K is a bad deal. Miami Blue 3RS aren't super common and usually fetch a small premium. I remember @FourT6and2 sold his Miami Blue 3RS for $255K in Feb which has plenty of track history as well.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...l#post18649478

Also values have gone up slightly from what I see compared to early this year, so keep note of that.
How much premium would you estimate for Miami Blue?

I don't like the carbon fiber hood of the WP, so prefer non-WP.
Old 06-23-2023, 12:31 AM
  #22  
inspire
Rennlist Member
 
inspire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 422
Received 125 Likes on 98 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold
How much premium would you estimate for Miami Blue?

I don't like the carbon fiber hood of the WP, so prefer non-WP.
I would estimate $10k premium for Miami Blue compared to other colors. I don't even think there are any Miami Blue 3RS for sale right now other than the one you want to buy and maybe the super low mileage Chicago car. Just depends how much you want the color.
Old 06-23-2023, 12:34 AM
  #23  
Manifold
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,256
Received 4,460 Likes on 2,537 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by inspire
I would estimate $10k premium for Miami Blue compared to other colors. I don't even think there are any Miami Blue 3RS for sale right now other than the one you want to buy and maybe the super low mileage Chicago car. Just depends how much you want the color.
I do love the color. I looked in my closet the other day and noticed that I have several shirts and a jacket in a blue which is very close to Miami Blue.
The following users liked this post:
Larry Cable (06-23-2023)
Old 06-23-2023, 01:50 AM
  #24  
famoruwa
Rennlist Member
 
famoruwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 150
Received 55 Likes on 38 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold
I do love the color. I looked in my closet the other day and noticed that I have several shirts and a jacket in a blue which is very close to Miami Blue.
Just tell them you're taking the car ONCE the rotors have been checked out, off the car, for your sanity. It'll be for their own benefit plus for service history for the buyer, if in fact it ends up being you. If the results come back subpar, you should be able to negotiate with them a % the cost of PCCB rotor replacement off the sale price.

Miami Blue is a great color, and that's not a bad price given where the other MB WP car is asking.

Last edited by famoruwa; 06-23-2023 at 01:52 AM.
The following users liked this post:
Manifold (06-23-2023)
Old 06-23-2023, 08:41 AM
  #25  
ParadiseGT3
Three Wheelin'
 
ParadiseGT3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 1,387
Received 977 Likes on 540 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold
The alignment and ride heights were at factory settings, but rear sway bar was set to soft, and front to stiff, so some tweaking was done to the setup.
haha that sounds like understeer hell. I'd have them double check to see if they don't have the sway interpretations reversed. Don't know anyone running front stiff, rear soft on a GT3/RS. Reset at least to mid-mid if you're not going to man up and make proper RS alignment adjustments straightaway.

Sounds like their pccb #'s could be fuzzy.

But if they're ballpark right about the readings, my approach would be to negotiate $5k off agreed price for a Girodisc + Pagid swap. And a new set of Cup 2 or SMR2 on the car at that price as well, if they're not new already. (As you know, if used, can't trust them.)

Girodisc swap, pccb in boxes, and new rubber, 235k. If you run through the Girodisc and want carbon ceramic again, then do an ST setup. Whole approach will be more cost effective than running through the balance of pccb and having to replace.

Know you have goodwill w/ dealer, but if you ask for much more not sure they don't check out on you and list the car. Don't think there are any MB for sale right now. They'll get ask or very close to ($240k). There are 26 .2 RS listed on Cars.com this a.m., 13 are Lizard. Forum is full of price handwringing, meanwhile the right .2 RS specs at just reasonable asks don't last. Plenty of dudes out there who won't lose sleep over +/-$10k on a quarter million dollar purchase.
The following 3 users liked this post by ParadiseGT3:
JRoman21 (06-23-2023), Manifold (06-23-2023), Thrownaway (06-23-2023)
Old 06-23-2023, 09:58 AM
  #26  
Manifold
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,256
Received 4,460 Likes on 2,537 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ParadiseGT3
haha that sounds like understeer hell. I'd have them double check to see if they don't have the sway interpretations reversed. Don't know anyone running front stiff, rear soft on a GT3/RS. Reset at least to mid-mid if you're not going to man up and make proper RS alignment adjustments straightaway.

Sounds like their pccb #'s could be fuzzy.

But if they're ballpark right about the readings, my approach would be to negotiate $5k off agreed price for a Girodisc + Pagid swap. And a new set of Cup 2 or SMR2 on the car at that price as well, if they're not new already. (As you know, if used, can't trust them.)

Girodisc swap, pccb in boxes, and new rubber, 235k. If you run through the Girodisc and want carbon ceramic again, then do an ST setup. Whole approach will be more cost effective than running through the balance of pccb and having to replace.

Know you have goodwill w/ dealer, but if you ask for much more not sure they don't check out on you and list the car. Don't think there are any MB for sale right now. They'll get ask or very close to ($240k). There are 26 .2 RS listed on Cars.com this a.m., 13 are Lizard. Forum is full of price handwringing, meanwhile the right .2 RS specs at just reasonable asks don't last. Plenty of dudes out there who won't lose sleep over +/-$10k on a quarter million dollar purchase.
They’ve already set the sway bars to mid-mid.

Tires are from 2020. Fronts look fine, rears were worn and have been replaced.

Want to stick with PCCB, so will ask for some price adjustment, or at least ‘we owe you’ offering me new rotors at heavy discount. I think they can sell the car as is for $240k, so I don’t think I have much leverage to negotiate.

I’m one of those dudes who don’t want to waste lots of time and energy searching for the right car at a bargain price, I’m satisfied with a fair price. And I’ve already bought three used cars from this dealer in the past year at really good prices, plus they gave me a GT3 allocation at MSRP, so that alone is several tens of thousands of dollars saved compared to market price. Also, the RS has full PPF and roll bar, and that would cost me more than $10k if I had to add them.


The following users liked this post:
ParadiseGT3 (06-23-2023)
Old 06-23-2023, 10:04 AM
  #27  
ParadiseGT3
Three Wheelin'
 
ParadiseGT3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 1,387
Received 977 Likes on 540 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold
They’ve already set the sway bars to mid-mid.

Tires are from 2020. Fronts look fine, rears were worn and have been replaced.

Want to stick with PCCB, so will ask for some price adjustment, or at least ‘we owe you’ offering me new rotors at heavy discount. I think they can sell the car as is for $240k, so I don’t think I have much leverage to negotiate.

I’m one of those dudes who don’t want to waste lots of time and energy searching for the right car at a bargain price, I’m satisfied with a fair price. And I’ve already bought three used cars from this dealer in the past year at really good prices, plus they gave me a GT3 allocation at MSRP, so that alone is several tens of thousands of dollars saved compared to market price. Also, the RS has full PPF and roll bar, and that would cost me more than $10k if I had to add them.
All sounds right. Except try to get those fronts replaced too my man. If the rear were worn to the point of min tread, then tread depth or not the fronts are dead. You'll be misinterpreting the car with new rear and heat cycled fronts.
Old 06-23-2023, 10:40 AM
  #28  
Manifold
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,256
Received 4,460 Likes on 2,537 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ParadiseGT3
All sounds right. Except try to get those fronts replaced too my man. If the rear were worn to the point of min tread, then tread depth or not the fronts are dead. You'll be misinterpreting the car with new rear and heat cycled fronts.
What's the typical wear pattern F vs R for Cup 2 on the 991.2 3RS?

On my 991.1 GT3, I always wore out the fronts first and rears didn't show much wear. If I tried to replace only the fronts, the car was loose, apparently because rears were heat-cycled before they were worn.
Old 06-23-2023, 11:13 AM
  #29  
ParadiseGT3
Three Wheelin'
 
ParadiseGT3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 1,387
Received 977 Likes on 540 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold
What's the typical wear pattern F vs R for Cup 2 on the 991.2 3RS?

On my 991.1 GT3, I always wore out the fronts first and rears didn't show much wear. If I tried to replace only the fronts, the car was loose, apparently because rears were heat-cycled before they were worn.
My treadwear is higher rear, but heat cycle wear feels about equal. When they're gone, they're all gone. If the rears on your pending RS were worn per tread depth, then that entire set was well used. There's no compound life left on the fronts. If '20 date code on fronts, no compound life remaining is almost guaranteed.

You'll likely get understeer and deficient braking with fresh rear & heat cycled fronts.

You want to experience the RS and decide what to do with set up according to equal rubber all around. I've run heat cycled Cup 2's on RS, it's no bueno.
Old 06-23-2023, 11:32 AM
  #30  
ipse dixit
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
 
ipse dixit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 17,126
Likes: 0
Received 11,933 Likes on 5,203 Posts
Default

Those PCCB numbers do not sound right based on the ODO of the car.

The ratio of front/rear is normal, but not the density based on a car with only 13k ODO.

Have them redo the wear measurements with the Carboteq tool with the rotors off the car. Readings should be higher.

Unlike the other poster, don't think there is ODO fraud. That's pretty rare on a Porsche.
The following users liked this post:
Larry Cable (06-23-2023)


Quick Reply: Buying CPO 991.2 3RS with PCCB Rotor 'Wear'



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 09:46 PM.