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991.2 GT3 RS vs other Porsche GT cars: on track and road
I may have an opportunity to pick up a 991.2 GT3 RS at a decent price. I’d be driving it mainly on the track, and would be driving it to/from the track (no trailer). I’d also drive it on the road for fun - if it’s actually fun on the road - but I don’t need it to be a fun road car since I already have several other fun road cars.
I’d appreciate opinions on how it compares on track and road versus other Porsche GT cars - 991.1 and .2 GT3, 991.1 GT3 RS, 981 and 718 GT4, GT4 RS, 992 GT3 and GT3 RS. How is the pace and fun on the track? Is the ride quality on the road tolerable? Is it fun to drive on the road at reasonable speeds? How different is it from the other cars I’m comparing it with?
I currently have a 991.1 GT3 and 981 GT4, and have ordered a 992 GT3 which will be delivered in a few months. I also have a 991.2 and 992 TTS. One of the cars I currently have (other than GT4) will need to be traded in to get the 991.2 GT3 RS, since I don’t have garage space to add a car.
With both cars being PDK, would say the 991.1 GT3 is your obvious trade in for the .2 RS. I don't think you'd find good reason to keep/use the .1 base after running the .2 RS on road & track.
Repeating myself on some of this, but perspectives aren't changing after continuing to own and drive the .2's. (Comparison points should transfer over to your base .1 since the difference between .1 and .2 is so incremental.)
How is the pace and fun on the track?
Taking the manual in my base .2 out of the equation, think fun factor is about equal. Both cars are stunningly awesome driver's instruments.
Driving style varies slightly, but meaningfully, if you're nerdy about it… Base requires more focused trail braking, while you can release the brake and trust the front axle on the RS to bite earlier. (RS actually gets unsettled on corner entry if you directly transfer base trail braking technique. With the stronger front axle, the RS returns to "neutral" weight balance sooner, so too much trail brake on entry and the back end wants to swing.) Really optimizing a corner entry in the base may be more rewarding/fun since there's just a little bit more finely tuned technique involved.
My observation is that pace has come down to driver & tires since .1 GT3 -- as in, a very well driven and/or better equipped base .1 GT3 can match or outpace a .2 RS. All of the 991's are so close in the real world. (And frankly, add 992 GT3 to that mix.)
All things being equal, the RS is definitely faster, but it doesn't roll out the red carpet for you to achieve better lap times. Find this RS factor very fun, rewarding. Know guys who have gone from base to RS and not gone any faster. Not so much as a tenth, much to their confusion and consternation On track day one I went only slightly faster in the RS. You have to be in tune with the car and experienced enough to go hunting for the RS advantage, understand where & how lap times are made btwn cars.
Biggest RS advantage is high speed braking. It's the most noticeable from behind the wheel, it's the most noticeable advantage in the data. You can brake later and carry more speed into apex in the RS, period. When I go back to the base after running the RS on track, I invariably have a "right, this is not the RS" moment/reminder in the first triple digit brake zone.
RS also carves tenths to the base in mid to high speed corners. RS instills more confidence to maintain throttle, and the "go" moment usually arrives sooner & with more clarity. Here's an example around an accelerating and winding right hander, red trace is RS, 2/10ths gain vs. base.
But this is what we're talking about, incremental gains here and there vs. base. If I overlaid hundreds of laps and data on the same track between RS and base, you'd have a hard time knowing which is which. Exception being, RS would stick out in some high-speed brake zones, and in small sections of certain corners like shown above. It grabs a tenth or two in some corners, up to 6-7/10ths in the most extreme brake zones, like T17 Sebring stuff. If it's a longer track, you'll net 3-4 seconds vs. base, shorter track 0.5-2 seconds. Some smaller tracks, depending upon characteristics, just a few tenths. They're so close that ambient and track conditions can make the difference -- really hot summer day I can't match in the RS what the base will do in more optimum conditions.
Is the ride quality on the road tolerable?
Yeah it's fine. Comfort gap between base and RS isn't much.
Is it fun to drive on the road at reasonable speeds?
For me because of the intakes. Play the paddles like an instrument for entertainment.
How different is it from the other cars I’m comparing it with?
RS feels more brawny on the road. It's not much different than base, unless we're talking about a manual.
Hope this helps, let me know if you want any other feedback. Grab the .2 RS. But then I think you'll eventually be making a choice between your .2 RS and your incoming 992 base. Not a bad place to be.
With both cars being PDK, would say the 991.1 GT3 is your obvious trade in for the .2 RS. I don't think you'd find good reason to keep/use the .1 base after running the .2 RS on road & track.
Repeating myself on some of this, but perspectives aren't changing after continuing to own and drive the .2's. (Comparison points should transfer over to your base .1 since the difference between .1 and .2 is so incremental.)
How is the pace and fun on the track?
Taking the manual in my base .2 out of the equation, think fun factor is about equal. Both cars are stunningly awesome driver's instruments.
Driving style varies slightly, but meaningfully, if you're nerdy about it… Base requires more focused trail braking, while you can release the brake and trust the front axle on the RS to bite earlier. (RS actually gets unsettled on corner entry if you directly transfer base trail braking technique. With the stronger front axle, the RS returns to "neutral" weight balance sooner, so too much trail brake on entry and the back end wants to swing.) Really optimizing a corner entry in the base may be more rewarding/fun since there's just a little bit more finely tuned technique involved.
My observation is that pace has come down to driver & tires since .1 GT3 -- as in, a very well driven and/or better equipped base .1 GT3 can match or outpace a .2 RS. All of the 991's are so close in the real world. (And frankly, add 992 GT3 to that mix.)
All things being equal, the RS is definitely faster, but it doesn't roll out the red carpet for you to achieve better lap times. Find this RS factor very fun, rewarding. Know guys who have gone from base to RS and not gone any faster. Not so much as a tenth, much to their confusion and consternation On track day one I went only slightly faster in the RS. You have to be in tune with the car and experienced enough to go hunting for the RS advantage, understand where & how lap times are made btwn cars.
Biggest RS advantage is high speed braking. It's the most noticeable from behind the wheel, it's the most noticeable advantage in the data. You can brake later and carry more speed into apex in the RS, period. When I go back to the base after running the RS on track, I invariably have a "right, this is not the RS" moment/reminder in the first triple digit brake zone.
RS also carves tenths to the base in mid to high speed corners. RS instills more confidence to maintain throttle, and the "go" moment usually arrives sooner & with more clarity. Here's an example around an accelerating and winding right hander, red trace is RS, 2/10ths gain vs. base.
But this is what we're talking about, incremental gains here and there vs. base. If I overlaid hundreds of laps and data on the same track between RS and base, you'd have a hard time knowing which is which. Exception being, RS would stick out in some high-speed brake zones, and in small sections of certain corners like shown above. It grabs a tenth or two in some corners, up to 6-7/10ths in the most extreme brake zones, like T17 Sebring stuff. If it's a longer track, you'll net 3-4 seconds vs. base, shorter track 0.5-2 seconds. Some smaller tracks, depending upon characteristics, just a few tenths. They're so close that ambient and track conditions can make the difference -- really hot summer day I can't match in the RS what the base will do in more optimum conditions.
Is the ride quality on the road tolerable?
Yeah it's fine. Comfort gap between base and RS isn't much.
Is it fun to drive on the road at reasonable speeds?
For me because of the intakes. Play the paddles like an instrument for entertainment.
How different is it from the other cars I’m comparing it with?
RS feels more brawny on the road. It's not much different than base, unless we're talking about a manual.
Hope this helps, let me know if you want any other feedback. Grab the .2 RS. But then I think you'll eventually be making a choice between your .2 RS and your incoming 992 base. Not a bad place to be.
Last edited by ParadiseGT3; 06-09-2023 at 10:20 AM.
I just want to say I'm jealous of your Pcar collection - that's a great group of cars. Congrats.
I think my vote would be for trading in the .1 gt3 as well. I think the engine is just so much nicer in the .2s. Second vote would be for the 991.2 turbo S, I think the 992 turbo s pretty much beats in every aspect, so you wouldn't be losing much there.
I'm running a .2 manual gt3 with mcs suspension, big wing, bigger front splitter etc. mostly at Watkins Glen, which is a high grip, high camber track --- reading ParadiseGT3's comments, I think it makes my base GT3 a smidgen more RS like, because I did end up modifying my driving a bit in the direction that he described, post the mods. I think more aero definitely makes it a bit more fun and interesting for me, and in your case i imagine it'd be noticeable if going from 991.1 gt3 to 991.2 rs.
Pacewise, really anything at or above a 991.1 GT3 comes down to either driver or tires. I haven't had any difficulty playing around with or passing any RSs on similar tires in the last several years. If it's a good driver on slicks, then the difference is substantial. Just to give a rough sense, I'm around 2:03s at the Glen on Cup2/Dunlop equivalent, whereas most serious guys on slicks, they're sub 2. GT4s, both 718 and 981 do seem a tad below pacewise because on the straights you do get walked, but i've never run into a GT4RS on track yet, that might be different.
People do say, the 992 front end is a night and day difference, and if so, you might enjoy tracking the 992 gt3 a bit more too? At this point i'm really used to driving the front end grip of the .2 gt3 so I really don't feel like that incremental change would be that big of a difference for me.
So many different angles to think about, fun one none the less
Biggest RS advantage is high speed braking. It's the most noticeable from behind the wheel, it's the most noticeable advantage in the data. You can brake later and carry more speed into apex in the RS, period. When I go back to the base after running the RS on track, I invariably have a "right, this is not the RS" moment/reminder in the first triple digit brake zone.
If the braking hardware is the same, why does the RS have an advantage?
Wider wheels + tires and aero. When the nose dives under braking that RS wing checks in.
Wing makes a big difference for sure - base GT3 moves around quite a bit under heavy braking, with big wing the rear is much more stable, with that increased confidence I find myself breaking later
I posted a thread a while ago here on speedster driving impressions. I have recently driven a 991 GT3 Touring as well. While the sound of the touring is miles better than the speedster, as I reported in that thread, it too also had not as much as pull in 2/3/4 gears like my GT3RS. I think a little bit of this is due to PDK and shorter gears hence more torque multiplication, perhaps some is due to RS better filter and Ecu tune but I am beginning to think, it may be due to my dundon street headers with loud muffler. Point being, these two cars dont have the same power and dont feel the same. The RS is like a rocket and has a lot more torque in lower RPM than the GT3. Again it could be due to the exhaust. Only way to know is to put dundon on the touring and try it out.
I posted a thread a while ago here on speedster driving impressions. I have recently driven a 991 GT3 Touring as well. While the sound of the touring is miles better than the speedster, as I reported in that thread, it too also had not as much as pull in 2/3/4 gears like my GT3RS. I think a little bit of this is due to PDK and shorter gears hence more torque multiplication, perhaps some is due to RS better filter and Ecu tune but I am beginning to think, it may be due to my dundon street headers with loud muffler. Point being, these two cars dont have the same power and dont feel the same. The RS is like a rocket and has a lot more torque in lower RPM than the GT3. Again it could be due to the exhaust. Only way to know is to put dundon on the touring and try it out.
I drove the 991.2 GT3 RS a couple times. I'm going to buy it as a track car. I don't think it's a great road car:
- The 991.1 GT3 is more fun as a road car - feels smaller than the RS, rawer, sharper, sounds better, accelerates similarly. The RS is clearly more capable on the road in terms of grip, but that doesn't really matter and isn't necessarily an advantage on the road.
- My 992 TTS is transformed after fixing the alignment and putting Cup 2 on it. As a road car, it kind of trounces the performance of the RS. Way more power and torque, handles wavy roads better, handling is just as sharp as the RS. Even on track, on equal tires, the TTS will be a bit faster than the RS. But the RS does sound better than the TTS, quite a bit louder at full scream.
I think the ride quality of the RS is fine on the road. It's somewhat harsh on bad roads, but so are my non-GT Porsches, and it's tolerable.
I'm going to trade in the GT3, mainly because it has 43k miles and over a hundred track days on it, and am not confident that the engine won't blow after the warranty expires at the end of 2024. But trading in that car makes my really sad, because it's a fantastic car and I've made many great memories with it.
Lots of great advice so only a small bit of feedback in terms of comfort in the RS. The DSC controller is a great addition for longer drives especially after a long track day. I was loathing the RS on the return after a very fun day until I installed the DSC. I have had a DSC in other cars but it really made the RS more tolerable on the crappy NorCal roads and freeways in normal mode.
I really like the MCS as the best of both worlds, more compliant on the road than most GT/nonGT cars with a softer setting, and very high quality damping on the track, esp high speed vs low speed compression controlled differently. Kind of like having a GTS and a RS at the same time.
I drove the 991.2 GT3 RS a couple times. I'm going to buy it as a track car. I don't think it's a great road car:
- The 991.1 GT3 is more fun as a road car - feels smaller than the RS, rawer, sharper, sounds better, accelerates similarly. The RS is clearly more capable on the road in terms of grip, but that doesn't really matter and isn't necessarily an advantage on the road.
- My 992 TTS is transformed after fixing the alignment and putting Cup 2 on it. As a road car, it kind of trounces the performance of the RS. Way more power and torque, handles wavy roads better, handling is just as sharp as the RS. Even on track, on equal tires, the TTS will be a bit faster than the RS. But the RS does sound better than the TTS, quite a bit louder at full scream.
I think the ride quality of the RS is fine on the road. It's somewhat harsh on bad roads, but so are my non-GT Porsches, and it's tolerable.
I'm going to trade in the GT3, mainly because it has 43k miles and over a hundred track days on it, and am not confident that the engine won't blow after the warranty expires at the end of 2024. But trading in that car makes my really sad, because it's a fantastic car and I've made many great memories with it.
Closing this thread, I did buy the RS and it's an awesome car. Traded in the 991.1 GT3. RS is a MUCH better car than the GT3. My test drives of the RS were skewed unfavorably by the sway bars being set to make it understeer and brakes not being strong enough due to glazed front pads. With those issues fixed, the handling is fantastic. Turns in beautifully, and lots of grip.
I posted a thread a while ago here on speedster driving impressions. I have recently driven a 991 GT3 Touring as well. While the sound of the touring is miles better than the speedster, as I reported in that thread, it too also had not as much as pull in 2/3/4 gears like my GT3RS. I think a little bit of this is due to PDK and shorter gears hence more torque multiplication, perhaps some is due to RS better filter and Ecu tune but I am beginning to think, it may be due to my dundon street headers with loud muffler. Point being, these two cars dont have the same power and dont feel the same. The RS is like a rocket and has a lot more torque in lower RPM than the GT3. Again it could be due to the exhaust. Only way to know is to put dundon on the touring and try it out.
I have Dundon street system on my manual 991 and it does appear to make fair difference in the mid range torque and pulls harder to the redline.
06-09-2023, 07:07 AM
991.2 GT3 RS vs other Porsche GT cars: on track and road
On track day one I went only slightly faster in the RS. You have to be in tune with the car and experienced enough to go hunting for the RS advantage, understand where & how lap times are made btwn cars.
