arowden86

Dundun offers an ECU clone. So if anything happens to your engine, you can swap the ECU back to stock, physically, and the dealer won't know, they say. But my understanding is that if the engine blows, the dealer will pull the logs. They should have timestamps and be able to see everything that was happening with the engine when it let go. Doesn't this make the clone useless? If you swap the ECU and put it back in and see the last timestamp on logs was from a year ago, that's going to be a red flag, right?

Also, they state that for E30/E85 you must drain the tank completely. Does anyone have experience with this? I had an M5 that I ran E30/E85 tunes on and NEVER drained the tank. I ran E50 on a stock tune sometimes without any issues.

bogey1

pretty good questions, and I certainly don't know the answers. What I would offer is that Dundon has a very strong reputation built over many years (myself included - I have used their products on my last three GT cars). They are smart guys dedicated to these GT cars and us as owners. My guess is that they have thought this ECU thru from top to bottom, but I would doubt they would post an answer.... but I may be wrong on that count. That being said, I did not do the ECU tune while my warranty was active, but it expires in May of this year and plan to do the ECU to go along with my headers, intake, throttle body and muffler .

JCviggen

I would not assume that a cloned ECU will fool Porsche, no. It might, but there aren't exactly a lot of stories of people actually doing this. It will most likely fool a dealer for most warranty work that does not involve a grenaded engine however.

When running a cloned ECU you will also develop an ever larger average speed as there is a counter in the ECU for operating hours and the car's mileage is recorded separately outside of it. Run a clone long enough and you'll start to get very implausible average speeds over the car's lifetime.

tgibrit

i may be in a minority but if this is your planned use case it is extremely dishonest - Porsche offer a warranty in good faith for the product you purchased, if the intended modifications materially change performance (otherwise why do them) why should Porsche pay for your experiment if it goes wrong? Personal integrity seems to be a increasingly rare quality.

3-Pedals

This is warranty fraud. You are trying to trick a manufacturer to pick up the $95,000 bill, do you think that’s legal?

racer959

arowden86

I'm just asking about a product that seems to be a fraud.

arowden86

What if the engine blowing up has nothing to do with the tune? I've been denied a transmission because of an air intake once in my life. I'm not going to act with integrity when manufacturers will screw you any chance they get. I'm totally fine with paying for a new engine if a tune causes its failure and they can prove that. But if it's something totally unrelated and they just say, "It had an intake/tune/etc, here's the bill." f that. That's not a position I want to be in.

3-Pedals

I dont think the product is fraud at all, why would you think that? There might be other legitimate reasons to use this ECU clone other than cheating PCNA.

M&Abanker4life

If there is an issue and the dealer claims that it was a result of modifications, the burden of proof to demonstrate otherwise will rest on you. You will need to hire your own experts, tow / store a car somewhere and document/log what was done to it outside Porsche's custody, and then potentially hire legal assistance to take it to court if you have an ongoing battle. Even if you are right, you will likely spend at least half the cost of a new engine proving to the world that you are right...

I would recommend being fully comfortable with paying for an engine (or whatever failure may be exhibited) on your dime vs. coming up with ways to try and fool the dealer. There is the issue of both mechanical and electronic/data evidence to reconcile. The failure modes of the engine are extremely well understood. If there is an outlier failure, you can bet they will dig into it to learn more and will keep digging until they find out why it occured..... this is me speaking from exact experience with this issue

arowden86

Yeah, I'm totally fine paying for an engine if it's an unusual issue likely caused by a tune. But if it's a common issue like a valve spring snapping, I shouldn't be on the hook just because of a tune that likely didn't cause it. That's my reason for posting this thread and asking about it. It sucks that the burden of proof is always on the customer. It's almost never worth it financially to fight the dealer in court.

arowden86

They advertise it as not ruining your warranty, but it still very likely does.

tgibrit

If you materially changed the characteristic of the engine, how do you know the value spring did not snap prematurely due to you mods? You have no way to determine what engine failures occurred due to the tune and which did not. the OEM tests and verifies the engine longevity based on specifications as delivered, if you increase performance mtbf will shorten. the burden off proof is only on the customer if they modify the engine which is then not the product the OEM sold. so your strategy is to make a fraudulent claim on the assumption the dealer is going to screw with you?

arowden86

If OEM tests verified the longevity of the engine, they wouldn't need a warranty at all, would they? Some parts are defective or break, that's the point of a warranty. I don't see how advancing the timing could cause extra stress on a valve spring. Increasing the rev limiter, yes. Timing would cause a premature detonation which would bend a rod or cause damage to the piston. The law actually says the burden of proof is on the dealership. If dealerships actually followed the law, I wouldn't want to screw them. But instead, they see a bumper sticker and say the warranty for every item on the car is voided. If they acted with integrity, I wouldn't want to lie to them. If I did, and they mentioned an issue the tune caused, I'd 100% tell them and offer to pay. These engines are ~20-25k, not 95k, that's not a big deal.

JCviggen

That's lovely and all but in reality you're going to have a heck of a hard time and legal fees to try and argue this and probably still end up losing.

If you mess with the certified control system of a complex mechanical device you're not going to get much sympathy insisting that they somehow prove beyond doubt that it was the root cause when it goes boom.