991.2 GT3 really worth $50k more?
12-29-2021, 09:35 PM
#16
Drifting
Had a PTS 981 GT4 I sold in August. Fantastic experience and i absolutely loved it especially the rev matching downshifts and the sonorous exhaust note. Wish it had a bit more power and that's where the GT3 comes in. Enough power without being too much (like my old 997 turbo with 775hp which was way too much power).
I've never bought an automatic transmission in my life. I do a lot of autocross though and the PDK would definitely be faster. I have 3 other manual transmission cars I can fall back on including my daily driver so it doesn't mean i would be without a stick shift. If it's a 991.2 it would be manual. If it's a .1 of course I don't have a choice. But i could comfortably be within my budget and also get a paint to sample again plus have money left over. So i wasn't initially looking for a PDK but i'm becoming more open to it due to the sheer cash savings. All i would have to sacrifice is a manual transmission and 25hp.
Which is why i was looking for reasons to hold out or to take the plunge. I do think there will be a market correction in the next year or two due to increasing supply with the 992, GT4RS, new Z06, and the fed raising inflation rates multiple times that will make it more expensive to finance. But i'm looking to pay cash so that doesn't really affect me.
Seems like manuals are anywhere from $195k to $210k generally. My top is around $180k (not including taxes and fees). So i'm quite a ways off from a manual without selling some other cars first. I can get a 991.1 PTS for like $150k (can you believe this market??). Prices have shot up at least $30k within the past year. I could wait for them to come down but that may realistically be 2023 when there's enough supply again. Or roll the dice and have a different experience with a PDK. If i don't like it i could always sell it.
Thought about that but i don't like being held hostage to one company if something goes wrong. My turbo would break and I had only 1 company to fix it and it was never cheap.
I've never bought an automatic transmission in my life. I do a lot of autocross though and the PDK would definitely be faster. I have 3 other manual transmission cars I can fall back on including my daily driver so it doesn't mean i would be without a stick shift. If it's a 991.2 it would be manual. If it's a .1 of course I don't have a choice. But i could comfortably be within my budget and also get a paint to sample again plus have money left over. So i wasn't initially looking for a PDK but i'm becoming more open to it due to the sheer cash savings. All i would have to sacrifice is a manual transmission and 25hp.
Which is why i was looking for reasons to hold out or to take the plunge. I do think there will be a market correction in the next year or two due to increasing supply with the 992, GT4RS, new Z06, and the fed raising inflation rates multiple times that will make it more expensive to finance. But i'm looking to pay cash so that doesn't really affect me.
Seems like manuals are anywhere from $195k to $210k generally. My top is around $180k (not including taxes and fees). So i'm quite a ways off from a manual without selling some other cars first. I can get a 991.1 PTS for like $150k (can you believe this market??). Prices have shot up at least $30k within the past year. I could wait for them to come down but that may realistically be 2023 when there's enough supply again. Or roll the dice and have a different experience with a PDK. If i don't like it i could always sell it.
Thought about that but i don't like being held hostage to one company if something goes wrong. My turbo would break and I had only 1 company to fix it and it was never cheap.
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12-29-2021, 10:20 PM
#17
Instructor
Life experiences has taught me to wait for what I really want... If it is more money than wait and save until you can afford. I have always regretted on settling and buying something now or immediately and end up selling it eventually and take a loss from selling anyways and paying more for what I had my heart set on anyways.
Last edited by no401k; 12-29-2021 at 10:21 PM. Reason: misquote
12-29-2021, 10:23 PM
#18
I've never even considered a .1
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12-29-2021, 10:55 PM
#20
12-29-2021, 11:17 PM
#21
Life experiences has taught me to wait for what I really want... If it is more money than wait and save until you can afford. I have always regretted on settling and buying something now or immediately and end up selling it eventually and take a loss from selling anyways and paying more for what I had my heart set on anyways.
Appreciate all the feedback so far.
And the person that noticed I mentioned PTS several times was a good catch. I love skittle colored cars and so I put a premium on that. They are just so fun and I loved my gulf orange. Probably my favorite car I've ever owned and definitely favorite color so far. Way different in person and I had purchased it sight unseen.
Last edited by eviligloo; 12-29-2021 at 11:22 PM.
12-30-2021, 12:50 AM
#22
Lots of comments on the differences between these cars, which raises the question of how many have significant time in each model (991.1 vs 991.2).
Some of the big differences show through on the aero in the two (not applicable to street driving), and of course the motor/gearbox combo. But aside of that all minor differences that have been discussed and don't cause any major driving differences.
Frankly the 3.8l is a more charismatic motor as compared to the 4.0l, the less refined tone gives it more appeal in my opinion. Closer to the 997's with the 3.8l but has some more creature comforts in the 991 platform. Overall the 4.0l is rather boring in the 991.2 and 992 if you ask me when compared to the older motors.
Some of the big differences show through on the aero in the two (not applicable to street driving), and of course the motor/gearbox combo. But aside of that all minor differences that have been discussed and don't cause any major driving differences.
Frankly the 3.8l is a more charismatic motor as compared to the 4.0l, the less refined tone gives it more appeal in my opinion. Closer to the 997's with the 3.8l but has some more creature comforts in the 991 platform. Overall the 4.0l is rather boring in the 991.2 and 992 if you ask me when compared to the older motors.
12-30-2021, 01:36 AM
#23
This is a tough question. I will start by saying that I definitely don’t think the .2 is worth 40-50k more than a 991.1. Generally. I however personally chose to pay that extra money for a few reasons I will explain.
My must have options are: Extended tank, Light weight buckets (lwb), PDK, and Front Axle lift. Along with that I really wanted a car with miles on the lower side with 3 previous owners - ideally 1 owner. As for brakes I would take either PCCB or metal. However as miles go up on a car I’m less interested in PCCB.
Searching for a nice 991.1 the last 2 months I found the following to be true in the set of cars available nation wide.
991.1 - Typically don’t have LWB. At least in the set of cars available during my time shopping.
Really weird option combinations. Like PCCB, but no extended tank. No FAL. Weird carfax histories. Lots of miles. It wasn’t uncommon to find more than 3 owners. Cars passed around the country. Damage history on carfax. When asking dealers about PCCB life no one can answer. Even when asking dealers to do a carboteq measurement the answer usually is no. (it’s like 26k to replace the damn rotors - so that needs to be factored into value). It was exceedingly rare to see CPO cars - in those rare cases the asks are quite inflated.
For the 991.2 it was easy to find buckets - fal - ext tank and PDK together. Many CPO. Still on original factory warranty - better condition. Fewer previous owners.
So in my case even though the money is dumb and honestly a waste It was worth it. I got a car with low miles - 1 previous owner and w/CPO.
But if you’re patient I think prices will decrease this year.
My must have options are: Extended tank, Light weight buckets (lwb), PDK, and Front Axle lift. Along with that I really wanted a car with miles on the lower side with 3 previous owners - ideally 1 owner. As for brakes I would take either PCCB or metal. However as miles go up on a car I’m less interested in PCCB.
Searching for a nice 991.1 the last 2 months I found the following to be true in the set of cars available nation wide.
991.1 - Typically don’t have LWB. At least in the set of cars available during my time shopping.
Really weird option combinations. Like PCCB, but no extended tank. No FAL. Weird carfax histories. Lots of miles. It wasn’t uncommon to find more than 3 owners. Cars passed around the country. Damage history on carfax. When asking dealers about PCCB life no one can answer. Even when asking dealers to do a carboteq measurement the answer usually is no. (it’s like 26k to replace the damn rotors - so that needs to be factored into value). It was exceedingly rare to see CPO cars - in those rare cases the asks are quite inflated.
For the 991.2 it was easy to find buckets - fal - ext tank and PDK together. Many CPO. Still on original factory warranty - better condition. Fewer previous owners.
So in my case even though the money is dumb and honestly a waste It was worth it. I got a car with low miles - 1 previous owner and w/CPO.
But if you’re patient I think prices will decrease this year.
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12-30-2021, 09:00 AM
#24
I think the $50k premium is not for performance (hp, torque, aero, etc), but rather, for everything else already mentioned. I bought a .2 because I actually like the aesthetics a lot more (which is silly because a normal person off the street probably can’t tell the difference), they tend to be in better condition with lower miles which I value a lot, and the manual transmission. Also, it is nice to not worry about the 3.8 engine issues. If there are future yet-to-be known 4.0 engine issues, at least I’m not worrying about it now because it’s not a known issue. With that said, $50k is a lot given that the driving experience is not too different. I still would buy the .2 again.
Last edited by s200on; 12-30-2021 at 09:05 AM.
12-30-2021, 09:52 AM
#25
Track Day
Like others have said "is the 50k worth it" from a "how much are you getting standpoint"? I sort of doubt it's worth 50k more to mere driving mortals. BUT if the 50k premium is tough for you financially I'd very seriously look at maybe getting something newer with a warranty. The things you're saying about it might take a while to save up an additional 50k etc are red flags for me. If you're super itchy to get something new I'd suggest a 992 Carrera S (super fun car).
Why?
Ironically, I just bought a 991.2 GT3 two days ago and one of the reasons it was appealing to me is that because it's still under factory warranty. I was able to extend the factory warranty for another 4 years (which I immediately did). If you buy a 2015 you'll need to be ready to eat pretty big maintenance costs should something go wrong. Almost like self-insurance. If you don't have a sizeable buffer in your bank account for the car I'd be super hesitant. When you get your GT3 (either today or tomorrow) be in a good position with it financially or it will be difficult to enjoy the car.
Why?
Ironically, I just bought a 991.2 GT3 two days ago and one of the reasons it was appealing to me is that because it's still under factory warranty. I was able to extend the factory warranty for another 4 years (which I immediately did). If you buy a 2015 you'll need to be ready to eat pretty big maintenance costs should something go wrong. Almost like self-insurance. If you don't have a sizeable buffer in your bank account for the car I'd be super hesitant. When you get your GT3 (either today or tomorrow) be in a good position with it financially or it will be difficult to enjoy the car.
12-30-2021, 10:58 AM
#26
The Delta is not so much the car as much it’s 4 years between the two models driving the Delta. 10 year warranty on the .1 engine is winding down many reasons for the gap.
12-30-2021, 11:10 AM
#27
I can't quite fit a manual 991.2 GT3 into my budget unless I sell some other toys (my SW20 MR2 for instance) to get the extra $10-15k necessary for one. Price difference seems to be about $50k right now for an extra 25hp and some more down low torque.
If money is no object sure the .2 is the answer. But people that have upgraded....would you do it again based on the current price difference?
If money is no object sure the .2 is the answer. But people that have upgraded....would you do it again based on the current price difference?
If you have to sell an MR2 to go for the newer car, that may tell you that stretching for the .2 is not wise. On the track the 991.1 and .2 are very close. On the street the extra torque from the 4.0 makes some difference, but the 3.8 is no slouch.
Last edited by TET GT3; 12-30-2021 at 11:13 AM.
12-30-2021, 11:13 AM
#28
So as for warranty the 991.1 i was looking at was CPO'd for another year. The engine warranty for a 2015 or 2016 won't run out until around 2025 depending on date of service. So that puts it close to most 2018 GT3's whos factory warranty are running out and would be on the 2 year extension of the CPO. That almost favors the 991.1 since you have the engine warranty.
As for options I don't want a ticking time bomb of PCCB's. I autocross frequently and I don't want a rock wedged into the rotor to ruin my year. LWB are a take it or leave it for me. They are a PITA to get in and out of so it's not really a deciding factor.
I have other cars i could sell as well. I just provided that as an example of one that might already be out the door already. I could financially make the .2 happen but the question was "is it really worth the $50k more?"
I'm an autocross instructor so I've driven both GT3's but it has been awhile since I've driven a .1. If someone had a 991.1 in maryland I could test out let me know!....especially if it is for sale (closest one for sale is a while away). I drove a .2 in june that i almost bought and drove a .1 about 5 years ago.
As for options I don't want a ticking time bomb of PCCB's. I autocross frequently and I don't want a rock wedged into the rotor to ruin my year. LWB are a take it or leave it for me. They are a PITA to get in and out of so it's not really a deciding factor.
Have you driven a GT3? May want to start there and form your own opinions.
If you have to sell an MR2 to go for the newer car, that may tell you that stretching for the .2 is not wise. On the track the 991.1 and .2 are very close. On the street the extra torque from the 4.0 makes some difference, but the 3.8 is no slouch.
If you have to sell an MR2 to go for the newer car, that may tell you that stretching for the .2 is not wise. On the track the 991.1 and .2 are very close. On the street the extra torque from the 4.0 makes some difference, but the 3.8 is no slouch.
I'm an autocross instructor so I've driven both GT3's but it has been awhile since I've driven a .1. If someone had a 991.1 in maryland I could test out let me know!....especially if it is for sale (closest one for sale is a while away). I drove a .2 in june that i almost bought and drove a .1 about 5 years ago.
Last edited by eviligloo; 12-30-2021 at 11:18 AM.
12-30-2021, 12:20 PM
#29
Instructor
The 4.0L alone is worth the 50K. I have had both and will tell you that the difference is far from 1% as mentioned on here. Many forget the other important differences:
1- better aero
2- Better PDK
3- Revised suspension
4- Revised steering
5- Revised info T
and I personally love the new look. I am at 45K+ better on my .2 since I bought it Nov 2020. and 180K for a PDK with low miles (<10K) is a smoking deal). I was offered 187K for mine from two diff dealers.
I will let an expert explain the diff better than I could: -skip to 4:10-
1- better aero
2- Better PDK
3- Revised suspension
4- Revised steering
5- Revised info T
and I personally love the new look. I am at 45K+ better on my .2 since I bought it Nov 2020. and 180K for a PDK with low miles (<10K) is a smoking deal). I was offered 187K for mine from two diff dealers.
I will let an expert explain the diff better than I could: -skip to 4:10-
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12-30-2021, 03:10 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
IMO the performance difference on track is negligible between the .1 & .2 and on the street even less so. When/if I upgrade I want more than an incremental difference so I'm going to wait and get a 992 in 2023/24.