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Maybe on the track after some heat. Cup2's need too much heat to be good in TT/ax and are also not legal for stock competition and get **** on by hoho's in modified classes
Stock tires are not ok to run in a stock class? I find autocross classes so dumb, and the concept of competitive parking lot driving is absurd to me.
My personal reason for avoiding Nankang's (among other brands) is the questionable quality vs something like established Michelin. For some of my other cars I run A052's and Hoosier A7's and very satisfied with those.
Stock tires are not ok to run in a stock class? I find autocross classes so dumb, and the concept of competitive parking lot driving is absurd to me.
My personal reason for avoiding Nankang's (among other brands) is the questionable quality vs something like established Michelin. For some of my other cars I run A052's and Hoosier A7's and very satisfied with those.
Regional events should be fine, although there are better choices for tires if times matter. They are not legal for National events though, need to be 200tw or above.
i've chunked PSC2's on track pushing the car as hard as i've done on the nankangs, which lasted much longer on hot days. pace wise, a stock power supra on the nankangs was consistently faster than gt4s (981/718, in advanced de groups) on the same days without needing to cool down. they're loud as hell at highway speeds and absolutely atrocious in the wet, though...
I tried the AR-1 today on a racetrack and didn’t like the behavior of those at all. I tried to play with the pressure but nothing changed for better.
The pro driver did try those as well on my car and experienced the same problem: they are not providing stability in mid speed corners. They are good at very tight corners and ensure proper grip when braking hard.
I checked the alignment of the car later to be sure the problem is tires and not the alignment. The alignment was absolutely OK.
interesting. I just got a new set of psc2 so going to do a few days with them again. I could see what you are getting at. Though on the mid speed corners.
I tried the AR-1 today on a racetrack and didn’t like the behavior of those at all. I tried to play with the pressure but nothing changed for better.
The pro driver did try those as well on my car and experienced the same problem: they are not providing stability in mid speed corners. They are good at very tight corners and ensure proper grip when braking hard.
I checked the alignment of the car later to be sure the problem is tires and not the alignment. The alignment was absolutely OK.
AR-1 and CR-1 are totally different tires. AR-1 are 100TW and CR-1 are 200tw. The CR-1 is a street tire and the AR-1 is a race tire. So I can not speak to how the AR-1's are on the car.
It's most likely not your alignment, it's tire pressure and totally different feel. After 2 competitive days with the CR-1's I found straight line grip outstanding! Mid-corner they make a lot of noise and the car moves around a lot more then with Cup2's. You can drive through the movement the car will grip and go. It's a totally different feel and driving style for me on the CR-1.
Originally Posted by TET GT3
Stock tires are not ok to run in a stock class? I find autocross classes so dumb, and the concept of competitive parking lot driving is absurd to me.
My personal reason for avoiding Nankang's (among other brands) is the questionable quality vs something like established Michelin. For some of my other cars I run A052's and Hoosier A7's and very satisfied with those.
It's simple. it's a 200tw class for stock. Cup2's are 180tw, so they are not stock class legal. Yes, I agree it's stupid, as Cup2's are a bad AX tire to begin with. Anytime you start to race, the classing always gets interesting. People protest cars in class, protest tire, upgrades, car weights, etc. It's super hard to get a whole bunch of different cars and try to keep the competition fair across the board. Car get shuffled between classes, and the top guys will go out and buy what ever car is deemed the "best" in class. it happens in all forms fo racing.
Have you tried an AX? It's some of the most dynamic and fast paced racing out there. Every course is different, you get 4 runs to prove yourself, and people win and lose by .001 sec. It's also the most turning per distance racing out there. It's very focused and difficult be "fast" at. It's also far safer and easier on the car vs. other forms of racing out there. The price to race is the lowest out there. As is consumables. Tires are the only real wear item and last most people a whole season. Real track racing (not drivers ed) goes through a couple sets of tires per weekend along with brakes and other consumables.
After weekend update....
Tire pressure so far same as Cup2's Running 29/34 cold running on the streets and 28-33 HOT in competition.
Driving around town
These tires are SUBLIME! Far less road noise over cup2's at both HY and B roads, also so much smoother (softer sidewalls). So far I like them better then PS4S around town when it's warm/dry. They are smoother and make less noise even over the PS4S. Where CUP2's feel like the SPORT button is pressed, the CR-1 feels like it's set to off. It is a big difference.
Steering feel
Much less darty and a little less direct VS Cup2's. The car turns in nicely with a sec of lag, but grip (hot and cold) is way better. They drive straight with no tramlining and don't pick up very rut on the road. It's very easy tire to live with and drive normally.
Heating up
They are AWESOME! Usually Cup2's take about 20-30min of HY driving to come up to temps. The CR-1 are good to go after about 3mi. Rears gained 4 PSI in a few miles and the fronts gained 3PSI with just a couple more. This is normal driving at the speed limit in a urban setting (30mph easy driving)
In competition
Slight over cast 67deg steady breeze. All center console lights on (sport, PDK, Exhaust, TC and stability off) I run Stock 5 class with 15+ cars in class.
Had PCA AX on Saturday, drove about 40mi to the site (still had the stickers on the tires when I arrived, was teased about it)
Set tire pressure at the HOT settings.
1st run WOW, I did not do a 30ft burn out at the start, these hook up even when "cold" turn in was far better but still had some understeer, mid corner was good, breaking was good. Everything was WAY better then Ciup2's. Drove through the understeer to get heat in the fronts, car slid around a lot, but far less then CUP2. Better then PS4S all round. But not awesome, just better.
2nd run, much like the first, just better, braking was much better and turn in was better less understeer got the car loose a couple times. Bleed out a few PSI all round.
3rd run. full floor on launch (no launch control) just grip and shot me out, no squirm on the 1-2nd **** just grip. front grip was great, turn in was great, tires feedback was very good with lots of noise when pushing. Need to be easy and smooth, mid-corner grip is there, but the car moves around a lot more. But you can drive the slipped the car goes where you want it. Let out a few more PSI. PSI has not stabilized yet)
4th all out trying to be on top for the day, pushing every corner and driving hard. Feedback was great, incredible grip trusted the car, and had a great run.
Notes
Tires heat up quickly but not like the Yoko. Tires also do not over heat, never had to spray them. This could be a good duel driver tire.
Where string feel is less, they will turn in harder when asked they also like to make some noise but still have a lot of grip when complaining about it.
I think 28-33 is about right for my driving style
Got TTOD and of course a class win.
Sunday Corvette/Viper club
Another site smaller, but fast course for all the 600+ hp cars. Almost everyone on Hoosier A7's.
Much the same, got 5 runs per session ran 2 sessions
78deg, sunny slight breeze
Only sprayed the rear tires on the 5th run, pressure stabilized on the 4th. Let out pressure on every run.
Not fully trusting the tires yet, there was a 3rd gear section with a decreasing left/right sweep going around 100mph. I was scared to commit as the rear was coming out at speed. Never lost it, but it was uncomfortable. I lost time there but it was high risk with trees
Braking is great I can wait a split second to get on them and the car stops, much less ABS.
Less feel but turn in is there, and reliable. These feel fastest with a little bit of squirm going on.
Grip is very consistent able to use much more gas and the rear sticks. The car doesn't want to swap ends as much, easier to drive hard. d
4th fastest of the day TTOD on street tires would have been 2nd for the day if not for a cone
Congrats on the results and great report, thank you for taking the time to write that up. I was really encouraged by the street manners you reported. I have been told the AR1 is not a nice tire on the street.
AR-1 and CR-1 are totally different tires. AR-1 are 100TW and CR-1 are 200tw. The CR-1 is a street tire and the AR-1 is a race tire. So I can not speak to how the AR-1's are on the car.
It's most likely not your alignment, it's tire pressure and totally different feel. After 2 competitive days with the CR-1's I found straight line grip outstanding! Mid-corner they make a lot of noise and the car moves around a lot more then with Cup2's. You can drive through the movement the car will grip and go. It's a totally different feel and driving style for me on the CR-1.
Tried the AR-1 again the next day and was not happy with them although they became more balanced during day two. The lap time became a bit better - 0.3 sec.
Then took the AR-1 off and put on Cup2s. Immediately shaved 0.6 seconds per lap on CUP2s. Cup2s are also very balanced and very predictable.
Yes I know cup2s will be faster for the first 10-20 laps and then lose lap time gradually and the AR-1 are holding its lap time for many laps. But the AR-1 tire is a no go for me. Will not buy those again. Rubbish.
After weekend update....
Tire pressure so far same as Cup2's Running 29/34 cold running on the streets and 28-33 HOT in competition.
Driving around town
These tires are SUBLIME! Far less road noise over cup2's at both HY and B roads, also so much smoother (softer sidewalls). So far I like them better then PS4S around town when it's warm/dry. They are smoother and make less noise even over the PS4S. Where CUP2's feel like the SPORT button is pressed, the CR-1 feels like it's set to off. It is a big difference.
Steering feel
Much less darty and a little less direct VS Cup2's. The car turns in nicely with a sec of lag, but grip (hot and cold) is way better. They drive straight with no tramlining and don't pick up very rut on the road. It's very easy tire to live with and drive normally.
Heating up
They are AWESOME! Usually Cup2's take about 20-30min of HY driving to come up to temps. The CR-1 are good to go after about 3mi. Rears gained 4 PSI in a few miles and the fronts gained 3PSI with just a couple more. This is normal driving at the speed limit in a urban setting (30mph easy driving)
In competition
Slight over cast 67deg steady breeze. All center console lights on (sport, PDK, Exhaust, TC and stability off) I run Stock 5 class with 15+ cars in class.
Had PCA AX on Saturday, drove about 40mi to the site (still had the stickers on the tires when I arrived, was teased about it)
Set tire pressure at the HOT settings.
1st run WOW, I did not do a 30ft burn out at the start, these hook up even when "cold" turn in was far better but still had some understeer, mid corner was good, breaking was good. Everything was WAY better then Ciup2's. Drove through the understeer to get heat in the fronts, car slid around a lot, but far less then CUP2. Better then PS4S all round. But not awesome, just better.
2nd run, much like the first, just better, braking was much better and turn in was better less understeer got the car loose a couple times. Bleed out a few PSI all round.
3rd run. full floor on launch (no launch control) just grip and shot me out, no squirm on the 1-2nd **** just grip. front grip was great, turn in was great, tires feedback was very good with lots of noise when pushing. Need to be easy and smooth, mid-corner grip is there, but the car moves around a lot more. But you can drive the slipped the car goes where you want it. Let out a few more PSI. PSI has not stabilized yet)
4th all out trying to be on top for the day, pushing every corner and driving hard. Feedback was great, incredible grip trusted the car, and had a great run.
Notes
Tires heat up quickly but not like the Yoko. Tires also do not over heat, never had to spray them. This could be a good duel driver tire.
Where string feel is less, they will turn in harder when asked they also like to make some noise but still have a lot of grip when complaining about it.
I think 28-33 is about right for my driving style
Got TTOD and of course a class win.
Sunday Corvette/Viper club
Another site smaller, but fast course for all the 600+ hp cars. Almost everyone on Hoosier A7's.
Much the same, got 5 runs per session ran 2 sessions
78deg, sunny slight breeze
Only sprayed the rear tires on the 5th run, pressure stabilized on the 4th. Let out pressure on every run.
Not fully trusting the tires yet, there was a 3rd gear section with a decreasing left/right sweep going around 100mph. I was scared to commit as the rear was coming out at speed. Never lost it, but it was uncomfortable. I lost time there but it was high risk with trees
Braking is great I can wait a split second to get on them and the car stops, much less ABS.
Less feel but turn in is there, and reliable. These feel fastest with a little bit of squirm going on.
Grip is very consistent able to use much more gas and the rear sticks. The car doesn't want to swap ends as much, easier to drive hard. d
4th fastest of the day TTOD on street tires would have been 2nd for the day if not for a cone
Thanks Michael for the excellent report. Have been driving the AR-1 on a lot of track days I am curious about this tire. I run PS4S on the street. After having read your report I will probably go all Nankang. Still wondering how the CR-S performs in the wet. My problem is driving at home close track I swap to AR-1 for track, but going to Nürburgring I can't use them since the drive there is 1200km away.
Coming to Nürburgring with PS4S is just not fun. So the CR-S would be the choice next time. Bergmann-Racing
im confused. so you think AR-1 is slower than MPSC2, but only for first 10-20 laps?
I am wrestling with MPSC2 vs AR-1. Have two sets of rims, one set shod with AR-1 the other with MPSC2...
I initially thought that the AR-1 were quicker than the MPSC2... but now I am rethinking that maybe they are more similar, but I do think AR-1 lasts longer.
the AR-1 *SUCKS* on the street, really loud, and a lot of harmonics thorough the car at like 65-72MPH... my car is just for the track, but I do drive it there.
Thanks Michael for the excellent report. Have been driving the AR-1 on a lot of track days I am curious about this tire. I run PS4S on the street. After having read your report I will probably go all Nankang. Still wondering how the CR-S performs in the wet. My problem is driving at home close track I swap to AR-1 for track, but going to Nürburgring I can't use them since the drive there is 1200km away.
Coming to Nürburgring with PS4S is just not fun. So the CR-S would be the choice next time. Bergmann-Racing
No idea about the wet yet, but I'm sure in the next couple months there will be a couple wet AX's here in the PNW. I can confirm that the CR-1 handles heat way better then the PS4S.
Depending n the weather, not sure how well the CR-1 would be on a full on track attack. They may stat to drop off towards the end if constantly pushed. My thought on track is you will get 3-4 fast laps, then they will start to drop. That might be less than one of your laps?
Well I have a fresh set laying in my workshop so that will be the choice if I don’t find a set of CR-S.
And the answer to your question would be that the Cup2 takes a bit to long time to heat up.
AX might one of lowest cost forms of racing in total. But probably not on a per minute of seat time basis. I dunno, because I don't care enough to do any math. But it seems like Lemons or Chump would be cheaper per minute.
No idea about the wet yet, but I'm sure in the next couple months there will be a couple wet AX's here in the PNW. I can confirm that the CR-1 handles heat way better then the PS4S.
Depending n the weather, not sure how well the CR-1 would be on a full on track attack. They may stat to drop off towards the end if constantly pushed. My thought on track is you will get 3-4 fast laps, then they will start to drop. That might be less than one of your laps?
09-03-2021, 10:20 PM
