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This rotor kit gives you instant BBK so you can upgrade "seamlessly" from your existing GT3 (380/380) rotors to pccb rotor sizes (410/390mm)
Not only you can keep your OE/Brembo calipers*, retain in one factory Brembo system, but can save you some $7-8,000 over Essex/AP iron kit costing $11,000 with smaller rotors (394/380)
Easy parts swap, no need to bleed the system. Kit includes caliper adaptors precisely engineered by RB for a 100% bolt-on installation.
*You may need to upgrade/replace the caliper components (available from RB) like other track racers. Your Red calipers are the same size and construction as pccb Yellow calipers (after installing/RB caliper adaptors) so you can use pccb or other aftermarket pads to greatly increase the thermal capacity.
Front brake pad comparison:
OE Pccb: ~190% of AP
Essex/AP (No wear sensor notch):
Do more research and calculation, Brembo/RB kit or Essex/AP kit - You decide!
It's meaningless to compare the brake rotor weight w/o relating to the Volumetric Heat Capacity (CP,v , J⋅cm−3⋅K−1) which is the amount heat that must be added to "one unit of mass" of the substance in order to cause an increase of "one unit in temperature". As a substance of an iron therefore, the heavier of a rotor the more of it's heat capacity and conversely the lighter a rotor the less of its heat capacity.
Only the volume of a rotor can truly represent it's weight, not the dimensions that customary used in expressing a rotor size (eg diameter x thickness - 390x36mm), for example you can make rotors with the same external dimensions but with variable friction plate thickness (A), and annulus (B) to achieve different "volume" and result in various rotor weights and heat capacity.
To make the evaluation more specific and meaningful, the weight comparison shall base on the same material - Iron (not CCM) and construction - 2pc w/aluminum hat and iron disc (not 1pc)
And here is a filtered result on 390x36mm iron rotors out of our some 700+ two piece rotor kits.
These are OE rotor sizes for heavy and fast muscle cars with hundreds of thousands of vehicles, and spans decades of applications, so the data sample shall be sufficient to support my question on how sound for a "same size" of rotor made to 25% lighter, so that consumers (not for professional racers or alike) can better evaluate a brake set up (rotor, pad size and heat factor) than just the rotor weight.
Rotor weight reduction is at the cost of losing its heat capacity and will run hotter at the same ratio, i.e. a 21 lbs rotor runs at 500C vs. a 28 lbs rotor at 400C - It's the fundamental science.
Last edited by RacingBrake; 07-23-2021 at 06:32 PM.
We have a collection of 240+ units of OE & Aftermarket fixed piston calipers including 42 units from OE Porsche (Brembo), and 6 units from OE McLaren (AP) and can never find one single caliper that's equipped with such a spring, so I can safely conclude, based on our decades of experience & knowledge in caliper business that this anti knock back spring is not required.
Anyone (including professional racers or alike) with "knock back" issue can rebuild one's OE calipers with RB components, or replace them to RB calipers and see for yourself if such a spring is ever needed.
Can you respond to Jeff's response to your post in this thread so we can continue comparing your kit?
Above were my response.
Can you go over my responses and let me have your comment.
Also don't forget to let me know what professional racing teams you raced with Essex brake kits, and what models of your 911 had Essex's brake kits then share your successful experience by comparing them to OE set up.
Last edited by RacingBrake; 07-23-2021 at 06:56 PM.
Can you go over your history in the brake industry and also can you tell us what professional race teams are using your products? We are well aware of AP Racing being used in NASCAR, IndyCar, IMSA, Rolex teams, etc. as Jeff mentioned. What forms of motorsports are Racing Brake components used in?
Which professional racing team are you with?
Other than yourself, anyone in this or other forums race in any professional teams with brake issues can contact us for a solution.
There is no brake issue (amateur or professional) we can't resolve.
I wouldn't buy anything VITAL to your life out of Taiwan or China, other than maybe an Exhaust. Their quality control just doesn't exist, and don't say iPhone, that's done by Tier 1 electronic companies.
Can you respond to Jeff's response to your post in this thread so we can continue comparing your kit?
So I looked at what Jeff wrote in the other thread, and he wasn't really responding to the thread as much as explaining why his product is special. I can't argue with his premise, but it's basically a non-response.
Having been the guest (with full hot pit/paddock credentials) of a very competitive IMSA Porsche Cup team in 2019, I can say with assurance that the Cup race cars run Performance Friction brakes. It's a spec series and those are the spec brakes. Setting aside AP's absence from that racing series, I agree that AP makes great brakes. However, AP's iron products don't compete with RB's CCM products. AP's parent company, Brembo, does compete with RB - they have the CCM-R series of rotors (a step up from CCB, a step below Carbon-Carbon) for track/racing use.
The post about anti-knockback springs struck me as very odd. Does Porsche have a suspension strength problem? I ask because AKB springs are a brake caliper solution to a suspension rigidity problem - you only need them if the car's suspension structure isn't strong enough to keep the rotor precisely aligned with the hub. It's usually caused by worn wheel bearings, or a suspension stub axle that bends under lateral G's. If that stuff's adequate and tight, you don't need AKB springs.
As for components made in China or Taiwan, most automotive OEM's are sourcing key products there. Partly because the quality is excellent and partly because if they don't, their ability to sell into that important, well-funded and fast-growing market is impaired.
Other than yourself, anyone in this or other forums race in any professional teams with brake issues can contact us for a solution.
There is no brake issue (amateur or professional) we can't resolve.
Originally Posted by RacingBrake
Above were my response.
Can you go over my responses and let me have your comment.
Also don't forget to let me know what professional racing teams you raced with Essex brake kits, and what models of your 911 had Essex's brake kits then share your successful experience by comparing them to OE set up.
I do not belong to any professional race team. I am a consumer. I am not the one who is comparing themselves to Essex/AP Racing. Don't ask me me which professional race teams I belong to. Ask yourself that question and answer it for all of us so it can help with our decision on which kit to go with. We are still waiting on an answer.
Why don't you ask BBi, GMG and TPC Racing if they would like to run your brake kit over what they are currently running/offering.
I am not saying your products are bad and I do appreciate you being so involved in the community. I only took issue when you brought Essex/AP Racing into this. I understand you are trying to push your product, which is why you keep responding to yourself in your own threads to bring the topic to the top, but members here are too educated on aftermarket products. You cannot compare your products to AP Racing.
Originally Posted by RacingBrake
That's why you have to be selective and deal with only reputable company like RB.
35 years in brake business
Holds 3 US patents in brake design.
Certified by ISO 9002
Parts are easy to copy and cheap to source & make.
Knowledge, Experience and Production Methodology are dear and priceless.
We know Porsche brakes inside out, and help motorists from all communities solve their brake issues (with brakes from big brands) on daily basis.
Of those 35 years in brake business, how many are involved in professional motorsports and which professional race teams have run your products?
So I looked at what Jeff wrote in the other thread, and he wasn't really responding to the thread as much as explaining why his product is special. I can't argue with his premise, but it's basically a non-response.
Having been the guest (with full hot pit/paddock credentials) of a very competitive IMSA Porsche Cup team in 2019, I can say with assurance that the Cup race cars run Performance Friction brakes. It's a spec series and those are the spec brakes. Setting aside AP's absence from that racing series, I agree that AP makes great brakes. However, AP's iron products don't compete with RB's CCM products. AP's parent company, Brembo, does compete with RB - they have the CCM-R series of rotors (a step up from CCB, a step below Carbon-Carbon) for track/racing use.
The post about anti-knockback springs struck me as very odd. Does Porsche have a suspension strength problem? I ask because AKB springs are a brake caliper solution to a suspension rigidity problem - you only need them if the car's suspension structure isn't strong enough to keep the rotor precisely aligned with the hub. It's usually caused by worn wheel bearings, or a suspension stub axle that bends under lateral G's. If that stuff's adequate and tight, you don't need AKB springs.
As for components made in China or Taiwan, most automotive OEM's are sourcing key products there. Partly because the quality is excellent and partly because if they don't, their ability to sell into that important, well-funded and fast-growing market is impaired.
Yes we are all aware that Porsche was using PFC on their Cup cars, but there plenty other professional race teams, along with OEM manufactures, running AP Racing. Put together a list of professional race teams running AP Racing and put together another list of professional race teams running Racing Brake.
You cannot compare Racing Brake to Brembo or AP Racing. Brembo/AP Racing is full of engineers, while Racing Brake is basically a one-man shop side business run by Warren while the majority of the business is from TPM Products, Inc. I am guessing Warren and his family have some kind of connection with Fang Jong Co. and Warren has them produce calipers for his brake kits. The carbon ceramic rotors used in Racing Brake kits are OEM Corvette C6 ZR1 and Camaro Z28 rotors by Brembo. They are not produced by Racing Brake.
The top of the line Brembo race kits use iron rotors. They do not use carbon ceramic rotors. The majority of race teams and track enthusiast will run a kit with iron rotors. Not carbon ceramic rotors.
Yes we are all aware that Porsche was using PFC on their Cup cars, but there plenty other professional race teams, along with OEM manufactures, running AP Racing. Put together a list of professional race teams running AP Racing and put together another list of professional race teams running Racing Brake.
You cannot compare Racing Brake to Brembo or AP Racing. Brembo/AP Racing is full of engineers, while Racing Brake is basically a one-man shop side business run by Warren while the majority of the business is from TPM Products, Inc. I am guessing Warren and his family have some kind of connection with Fang Jong Co. and Warren has them produce calipers for his brake kits. The carbon ceramic rotors used in Racing Brake kits are OEM Corvette C6 ZR1 and Camaro Z28 rotors by Brembo. They are not produced by Racing Brake.
Its better to compare Racing Brake to Rotora.
The top of the line Brembo race kits use iron rotors. They do not use carbon ceramic rotors. The majority of race teams and track enthusiast will run a kit with iron rotors. Not carbon ceramic rotors.
And, if you think that was just a one-off, check this out: https://thebrakereport.com/f1-could-...eramic-brakes/. In this article from June 2019, Brembo’s performance group CEO Mario Almondo speculates about switching Formula 1 from carbon-carbon to carbon-ceramic. There's clearly an urge on Brembo's part to get CCM into the mainstream of performance braking. They're not moving fast, but they're not stopping either. It's also pretty clear that Brembo is starting to market the idea of CCM-R brakes for track day use in a more serious way. They just introduced a new caliper series - the Pista | FF, which looks like it's modeled after the AP Racing Radi-Cal series - and the marketing material has CCM-R rotors front and center. What's even more salient, if you go through the Brembo "Upgrade" catalog, there are lots of kits in the catalog (including for Porsche 911's from 996 to current) that include CCM-R rotors. Pricey? Nose-bleed territory! But, with Brembo behind them, they'll work and they'll sell.
07-01-2021, 07:58 PM
