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Excellent thread and thanks to the OP for sharing his thoughts on the 911R and the speedster. Porsche did put out a lot of great cars in the in the 991 generation. I personally put over 50,000 miles on my 991 turbo S and my 991.1 RS.
it’s really fun to hear what everybody likes and dislikes. I personally have moved on to the 992S which is a fabulous car.
lastly to OP Please scratch that CGT itc... The car is sublime.
I still agree the 911r is the most engaging of the 991 series, and that by far includes the gt3rs...which ironically I find boring in it's utter perfection as a tool (which makes it a near perfect car for a go fast job, but not for getting the heart rate going TBh). I LOVE the look of the speedster though, and I constantly debate when I see them for sale but alas, I've got a CGT coming which kind of crosses off the ultra special topless pcar off the checklist for me. You really cant go wrong with any of these options overall though, they are all really special cars. Porsche really crushed the 991 GT variants!
Nice, I didn’t know you owned a 911R before? You are the first R owners I heard who prefers his 3RS over the R.
Originally Posted by groundhog
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - the 991.2 RS is more engaging than the 911R at least from my perspective - why? it generates more feedback - the steering is a real step up, has a far, far better front end - far superior suspension set up - particularly at high speed and frankly a better sound both inside and out (keep in mind there were ~ 1000 changes relative to the .1 RS).
Nice, I didn’t know you owned a 911R before? You are the first R owners I heard who prefers his 3RS over the R.
No never owned a R - but have driven one enough to form an opinion - I expected to be blown away and just wasn't. Steering is not as communicative or as accurate as a series II RS, turn in is noticeably less sharp and its not that good at high speed on rougher roads. I think the single mass fly wheel is a nice touch - it really just didn't blow me away, thats not to say I don't like it. I do.
In some respects the divergence may be a reflection on how I use my RS - essentially bought to use for national level road rally competition. Hence my bench mark is how something performs and behaves when it is really, really pushed. You might argue thats not a fair bench mark - the counter argument is I'm using the whole breadth of the RS capabilities e.g. its design brief fits my usage and it really does shine when you're at full knock.
So perhaps its more a case of horses for courses and that defines the differing viewpoints. e.g. the R brief is different to that of the RS and therefore its pointless saying one is better than the other
I think the other perspective is some of these cars are like artwork the small subtle differences matter to the owners as does the change through time and mood of an artist you may collect. I think its this that bends Touring owners out of shape at the end of the day the Touring is a mass market car, and a good one at that and yet because it is a mass market car it lacks the subtlety and mood of the R - something a collector of art would appreciate.
Thought I would provide a few of my thoughts on how these two cars compare now that my speedster has gotten through break-in period.
the cars:
911R is GT Silver/GreenStripes/matte black wheels/Tarpan Brown interior. 5600 miles on the clock when I went on drive
Speedster is Porsche Racing Green/Heritage leather interior/Aluminum wheels. 1145 miles on clock when I went on drive
both cars fitted with Michelin PS4S rubber which suit PNW driving better. (Have second set of wheels for each car with Cup2s if swap desired)
the drive:
weather has been great here recently and I took Speedster out yesterday and the R out today for the same 120 mile drive. 70% mountain highway twisting over the Cascade Mountain pass and 30% back road twisties as I worked my way back to Redmond WA where I keep my cars. Light traffic both days as I drove early and temp in low 70s. No tickets and did not exceed “go to jail” speeds but ample opportunity to safely push both cars in a fun way.
thoughts:
the 911R is the most engaging car I have driven (my 2012 V12 Vantage 6speed a close 2nd mainly because the engine put out more power than suspension and tires could handle). The R is always on, a hooligan/hot rod at any speed and I am completely immersed in the driving experience at all speeds. This skunkworks creation truly brings a crafted driving experience that has to be experienced to appreciate. The engine noise is glorious and SMFW produces an incredibly fast spooling engine both up and down which keeps you on your toes as you rev match. This car urges you to continually row through the gears and the shifts are smooth and mechanical. The feedback when pushing through corners is more progressive than speedster and while my driving is not pushing limits...I do feel the car requires constant driver attention. This is not a date night car in my opinion. It is loud in the cabin so discussion or radio listening should not be planned- which makes the engagement all the more special. Car is well set up for road work and the suspension handles bumps and dips well without getting squirrly. speedster is setup a little softer by comparison. Gearing works well for road driving although I rarely use 6th. You can feel the weight difference between the R and Speedster but neither feels heavy. I know the R gets a lot of ink here but to me this project has created a car where all the pieces fit together to make a car for the enthusiast...meant to be driven and not comparable to other options out there - and there are other options out there to consider based on intended use which is a good segue to the Speedster
while the 911R has a consistent personality of “badass” the speedster is bi-modal. With the top closed at cruising speeds or city driving-this is a great “grand tourer” Perfect ride for you and your partner for date night or weekend get away. And you can converse while moving. The Speedster engine delivers torque quickly and smoothly and the engine is more responsive than 991.2 GT3. I find the R torque delivery is less linear in low range but it revs so fast that the point is moot The Speedster is a bit softer and I drive it with suspension on sport setting. I never use auto blip on any of the two cars. This is a car I believe many Turbo S Cab owners are looking for in fast and fun top down drive....but while the Turbo S excites primarily with its acceleration runs, this car is so much more and that brings us to the second distribution curve in its bi-modal nature.
with top open and pushing the car from 5K-9K this car discards its Clark Kent manners and shows why it came from the GT division. The engine screams(albeit more muted below 5K) and the acceleration and pull is quick and linear. The car is planted and even without a fixed roof in handles uneven roads without much cowl shake. Shifts are quick and precise although I feel the R’s box feels slightly more mechanical or analog. The feedback is good and the car does not feel heavy or bloated when turned in to corners. I do feel that feedback is less progressive than the R. With the sun out and top down and screaming engine through mountain twists this is a seriously fun drivers car that can be taken out to dinner later that night...really special
i do get that some are put off by proportions but to me this car looks better in person than in pics. I also get why some prefer the Spyder (I have a 987S boxer and love the mid engine drive) but the long geraring on Spyder makes this a non starter for me. If I could only have one car, given its multi personalities this could be it...but luckily I can keep both with the Speedster soon going down to Madison Club in the desert and the R staying at Drivers Club and where the only constraint is finding time to drive. I am working on one more addition to my personal “ dream garage of long term drivers” which will be mid engine, NA, drop top and not a manual. That will also stay in PNW.
bottom line is in my opinion, the R is a unicorn (there can be more than one unicorn) and so much fun to drive that it pains me to hear about those locked in garages. The Speedster is a real “pleasant” surprise and just checks so many boxes as to what pleasure buttons it pushes. I encourage all Porsche enthusiasts to try to drive one of these two versions of the 991...you may become a believer
lastly I am also a big fan of the 991.2 GT3 manual winged or no wing option....it is great to have that car available. But I believe these cars will follow the historical pattern as the 992 comes out. Does not make them any less of a car....it just is.
Regardless of the GT model you have....I think the 991 series produced some great cars and if you are driving them you are ahead of the game.....if you are storing them as investment you are missing out
The 911 R is the last special car Porsche will ever produce. I don't find it loud and have no problem on date night. I did however have a serious date night issue some years ago in Denver with a non-A/C (lightest in U.S.) '11 GT3 RS 3.8 in a late August rainy evening. Windows up, windows cracked...didn't matter. Car fogged up, couldn't see and date was hot and upset. I recently gave up my 991 Speedster. No regrets. For open top I love my 981 Spyder. I have a Gentian Blue 718 Spyder (brakes, seats) on the water but not sure it will be as compelling as the 981 due to weight and new motor. I'll drive them side by side and see. If someone has any interest in the one I sell please PM me.
Based on my experience on owning all of the GT variants, I can tell you firsthand that the R is a 7/10th car where it shines the best. At high speed on rough roads, the back end is loose and likes to move around. Turn in is not as sharp as the RS, but that's the whole point of the car, just like an older 911. Conversely, I find the GT3RS/GT2RS to be a little bit boring unless I'm on the track ringing the crap of them. The limit on the GT3RS/GT2RS is so high that I often need to go double the speed limit to get any sort of enjoyment out of them on the street.
Originally Posted by groundhog
No never owned a R - but have driven one enough to form an opinion - I expected to be blown away and just wasn't. Steering is not as communicative or as accurate as a series II RS, turn in is noticeably less sharp and its not that good at high speed on rougher roads. I think the single mass fly wheel is a nice touch - it really just didn't blow me away, thats not to say I don't like it. I do.
In some respects the divergence may be a reflection on how I use my RS - essentially bought to use for national level road rally competition. Hence my bench mark is how something performs and behaves when it is really, really pushed. You might argue thats not a fair bench mark - the counter argument is I'm using the whole breadth of the RS capabilities e.g. its design brief fits my usage and it really does shine when you're at full knock.
So perhaps its more a case of horses for courses and that defines the differing viewpoints. e.g. the R brief is different to that of the RS and therefore its pointless saying one is better than the other
I think the other perspective is some of these cars are like artwork the small subtle differences matter to the owners as does the change through time and mood of an artist you may collect. I think its this that bends Touring owners out of shape at the end of the day the Touring is a mass market car, and a good one at that and yet because it is a mass market car it lacks the subtlety and mood of the R - something a collector of art would appreciate.
Based on my experience on owning all of the GT variants, I can tell you firsthand that the R is a 7/10th car where it shines the best. At high speed on rough roads, the back end is loose and likes to move around. Turn in is not as sharp as the RS, but that's the whole point of the car, just like an older 911. Conversely, I find the GT3RS/GT2RS to be a little bit boring unless I'm on the track ringing the crap of them. The limit on the GT3RS/GT2RS is so high that I often need to go double the speed limit to get any sort of enjoyment out of them on the street.
Agree with RS pushing the limits for fun, and it’s an awesome car .......my time didn’t include more time at the track just life stuff. Driving on the street will get you arrested to have run, and I was out in the Speedster that thing is fun at any speeds and checks many boxes. The goodness with a RS you can always find one.
I think the single-mass lightweight flywheel in the R is a big factor and I wish they had used it in other GT's especially the gt3RS..
It's one of the things I love about my manual F430, the level of interactivity and the challenge of rev-matching and shifting up and down...
Can't afford an R right now but it's on bucket list
The RS would have been more fun with a manual and SMFW from the R. The R and touring don't look as good as the RS and don't handle as well. Can't have it all
The R literally is the automative embodiment of that old saying "the sum is greater than the parts"
Nothing in particular about the R, standing alone, makes it all that special. But when put together in one automobile, the synergistic effects take hold, and voila, you really have something special.
I was fortunate enough to get to drive an R for about a couple of hours on regular public roads, nothing extreme, but it was a very cool experience and it just felt a little different than say a "regular" GT3.
This isn't to denigrate any other iteration of the 991 GT3, the Touring included, or really any other Porsche, but PAG really nailed the special sauce for the R.
For the lucky owners that don't drive them, pity on all of us.
Pity on the owner for missing out on the joys and experience of owning such a fine machine.
And pity on the rest of us for not being able to live vicariously through their experiences driving the R.
08-16-2020, 11:24 PM
- the 991.2 RS is more engaging than the 911R at least from my perspective - why? it generates more feedback - the steering is a real step up, has a far, far better front end - far superior suspension set up - particularly at high speed and frankly a better sound both inside and out (keep in mind there were ~ 1000 changes relative to the .1 RS).
