Touring with Surface Transform (carbon ceramic) rotors
#31
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Thanks Jeff. It's an endless debate it seems. I run a little Porsche enthusiasts club at the Ring. All are various flavours of 997 & 991 GT3, and me, the black sheep who insists on being comfortable for my drive on to eat good food in Italy after a track session
We all know each other's driving intimately now, and this year we started allowing each other to drive each others cars. No holds barred. Aside from everyone being annoyed with themselves for loving the way the Turbo drives waaaaaay more than they had convinced themselves they would, the thing that got the most discussion was just how EPIC PCCBs are compared to all their Endless/AP Racing etc etc steel upgrades. It's the way they never change in feel after any number of laps, for sure, but there are subtleties to really knowing the Ring.
For example, a full attack run down the hill from Kallenhard to Breidscheid will leave even the best steel brakes feeling a little exhausted as you brake into the bridge. With the PCCBs though, it feels almost as though you're just slowing for a junction on the way to the shops. It's like they just don't even notice you've just dropped well over 600ft in little over a mile, hauling yourself almost to a stop in Wehrseifen on the way down! I've done well over a thousand laps on steel brakes (AP amongst them and indeed probably still my favourites) but I still get excited by the 'new' experience of PCCB going down that hill. (amongst many other spots obvs).
I have no doubt your brakes are as good as steel can get. And feel incredible to use. And weigh less than other steels etc etc. And Way back in the days of me tracking an E39 M5 (don't ask!) the engineers at AP and I were on first name terms. You could not wish to deal with smarter, nicer and more helpful people. Seriously. But let me ask you this... when's the last time you saw anyone wearing wool clothing to the artic?
Tech moves on. Relentlessly. Like lap times, you can't stop humans wanting to improve things
The only downside to PCCB is cost. Everything else about them is better. If you can swallow the up-front cost, the ST solves this and in fact seems to work out cheaper over the same number of laps than steel. ST solved that last little issue too ... As for feel & aftersales, I'll just have to find out I guess.
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
We all know each other's driving intimately now, and this year we started allowing each other to drive each others cars. No holds barred. Aside from everyone being annoyed with themselves for loving the way the Turbo drives waaaaaay more than they had convinced themselves they would, the thing that got the most discussion was just how EPIC PCCBs are compared to all their Endless/AP Racing etc etc steel upgrades. It's the way they never change in feel after any number of laps, for sure, but there are subtleties to really knowing the Ring.
For example, a full attack run down the hill from Kallenhard to Breidscheid will leave even the best steel brakes feeling a little exhausted as you brake into the bridge. With the PCCBs though, it feels almost as though you're just slowing for a junction on the way to the shops. It's like they just don't even notice you've just dropped well over 600ft in little over a mile, hauling yourself almost to a stop in Wehrseifen on the way down! I've done well over a thousand laps on steel brakes (AP amongst them and indeed probably still my favourites) but I still get excited by the 'new' experience of PCCB going down that hill. (amongst many other spots obvs).
I have no doubt your brakes are as good as steel can get. And feel incredible to use. And weigh less than other steels etc etc. And Way back in the days of me tracking an E39 M5 (don't ask!) the engineers at AP and I were on first name terms. You could not wish to deal with smarter, nicer and more helpful people. Seriously. But let me ask you this... when's the last time you saw anyone wearing wool clothing to the artic?
Tech moves on. Relentlessly. Like lap times, you can't stop humans wanting to improve things
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#32
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Thanks Jeff. It's an endless debate it seems. I run a little Porsche enthusiasts club at the Ring. All are various flavours of 997 & 991 GT3, and me, the black sheep who insists on being comfortable for my drive on to eat good food in Italy after a track session ![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
We all know each other's driving intimately now, and this year we started allowing each other to drive each others cars. No holds barred. Aside from everyone being annoyed with themselves for loving the way the Turbo drives waaaaaay more than they had convinced themselves they would, the thing that got the most discussion was just how EPIC PCCBs are compared to all their Endless/AP Racing etc etc steel upgrades. It's the way they never change in feel after any number of laps, for sure, but there are subtleties to really knowing the Ring.
For example, a full attack run down the hill from Kallenhard to Breidscheid will leave even the best steel brakes feeling a little exhausted as you brake into the bridge. With the PCCBs though, it feels almost as though you're just slowing for a junction on the way to the shops. It's like they just don't even notice you've just dropped well over 600ft in little over a mile, hauling yourself almost to a stop in Wehrseifen on the way down! I've done well over a thousand laps on steel brakes (AP amongst them and indeed probably still my favourites) but I still get excited by the 'new' experience of PCCB going down that hill. (amongst many other spots obvs).
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
We all know each other's driving intimately now, and this year we started allowing each other to drive each others cars. No holds barred. Aside from everyone being annoyed with themselves for loving the way the Turbo drives waaaaaay more than they had convinced themselves they would, the thing that got the most discussion was just how EPIC PCCBs are compared to all their Endless/AP Racing etc etc steel upgrades. It's the way they never change in feel after any number of laps, for sure, but there are subtleties to really knowing the Ring.
For example, a full attack run down the hill from Kallenhard to Breidscheid will leave even the best steel brakes feeling a little exhausted as you brake into the bridge. With the PCCBs though, it feels almost as though you're just slowing for a junction on the way to the shops. It's like they just don't even notice you've just dropped well over 600ft in little over a mile, hauling yourself almost to a stop in Wehrseifen on the way down! I've done well over a thousand laps on steel brakes (AP amongst them and indeed probably still my favourites) but I still get excited by the 'new' experience of PCCB going down that hill. (amongst many other spots obvs).
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I have no doubt your brakes are as good as steel can get. And feel incredible to use. And weigh less than other steels etc etc. And Way back in the days of me tracking an E39 M5 (don't ask!) the engineers at AP and I were on first name terms. You could not wish to deal with smarter, nicer and more helpful people. Seriously. But let me ask you this... when's the last time you saw anyone wearing wool clothing to the artic?
Tech moves on. Relentlessly. Like lap times, you can't stop humans wanting to improve things
The only downside to PCCB is cost. Everything else about them is better. If you can swallow the up-front cost, the ST solves this and in fact seems to work out cheaper over the same number of laps than steel. ST solved that last little issue too ... As for feel & aftersales, I'll just have to find out I guess.
Tech moves on. Relentlessly. Like lap times, you can't stop humans wanting to improve things
![](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
To my knowledge, none of these guys wanted to give their trophy back because winning with primitive iron discs made them feel too guilty.
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Also, while it's fine to focus on the disc material, one can't ignore the other half of the brake technology puzzle: the calipers. They are every bit as crucial to the brake system as the disc material. The AP Racing Radi-CAL makes every other caliper design, including the OEM Porsche units, look like dinosaurs. We created the graphic below to illustrate this idea. They are a significant leap forward beyond prior brake technology, just like the multi-piston fixed caliper was over the sliding one piston caliper. The Radi-CAL has had an immense impact on motorsports, and upon introduction instantly forced all other brake manufacturers into the 'catch-up' game. In this link you can read/watch a video on the deign and impact of the Radi-CAL on racing, which includes some nice excerpts from Race Tech Magazine, etc.: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...-radical-story
The inherent stiffness of the Radi-CAL design, the lightness, the reduced running temps, etc. are all far beyond the scope of anything achievable by a conventional caliper design. This has been proven out in racing, where there has been a wholesale switch to the Radi-CAL caliper design (or some verison/copy of its asymmetrical form). You just don't see 'square block' conventional calipers on the podium in the top ranks of racing anymore, at least if the team wants to win.
Our piston design and material, the anti-knockback springs, the 6 lbs. vs. 11 lb. weight, the ease of pad swaps without removing the caliper, the long list of pad options, etc. are all factors in the overall performance and owner's enjoyment of the brake system. While discs are always viewed as a consumable (even ones that can be resurfaced/refurbished a few times), the calipers are the heart of the brake system that remain on the car as they consume a long string of pads and discs over time. Is it better to have something high-tech that you eventually throw away, or better to have something high-tech that you can sell in the future and recoup a large portion of your investment in it? Our systems hold their value tremendously well, and we see them passed on through multiple owners across many years, without degradation in performance, and in most cases they are essentially serviceable indefinitely (unless they are crashed or something truly extraordinary happens to them).
All are various flavours of 997 & 991 GT3, and me, the black sheep who insists on being comfortable for my drive on to eat good food in Italy after a track session
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![](https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/1600x830/evolution_apcaliper_2018_webad_1600_36019cb770b5657c8788fc0c199482f903e05cec.jpg)
__________________
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services
Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs
Ferodo Racing Brake Pads
Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030
jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
![](https://rennlist.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic110137_8.gif)
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services
Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs
Ferodo Racing Brake Pads
Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030
jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
![](https://rennlist.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic110137_8.gif)
Last edited by JRitt@essex; 09-28-2021 at 12:22 PM.