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Curious, did it cost less than PCCB optioned from factory, $9,210?
Looks great by the way. Likely the only car with red calipers + ceramics!
Remember that the cost of PCCB's as an option is the additional cost above the excellent iron brakes (that you don't get in addition). Also, any originally ordered option goes right to sales tax, registration, and insurance costs.
I think the new kit from ST is around $13k. This kit was bought used from a Rennlister.
What are the spacers made out of? The reason I ask is that because they are an exposed part, if they are made out of anything more cathodic than aluminium alloy, there is a risk that the caliper and hub carrier could corrode around the spacer. The corrosion could lead to a structural failure due to the sheer amount of force at this joint.
What are the spacers made out of? The reason I ask is that because they are an exposed part, if they are made out of anything more cathodic than aluminium alloy, there is a risk that the caliper and hub carrier could corrode around the spacer. The corrosion could lead to a structural failure due to the sheer amount of force at this joint.
Are you referring to the hat or bell that attaches the disc to the hub? There is no spacer. The hat is a golden color on ST rotors (can be anodized black) and black on the Porsche product. I've no idea what it's made from from, my guess aluminum but I'm no metallurgist.
The hats have a great technical/mechanical look with exposed nuts and fasteners, love it.
Are you referring to the hat or bell that attaches the disc to the hub? There is no spacer. The hat is a golden color on ST rotors (can be anodized black) and black on the Porsche product. I've no idea what it's made from from, my guess aluminum but I'm no metallurgist.
The hats have a great technical/mechanical look with exposed nuts and fasteners, love it.
Not referring to the hat or bell, I'm referring to the spacer between the hub carrier and the caliper. The spacer is part of the kit that "pushes" the caliper further out to accommodate the larger diameter brake discs. It looks like a washer and is sandwiched between the caliper and the hub carrier.
Remember that the cost of PCCB's as an option is the additional cost above the excellent iron brakes (that you don't get in addition). Also, any originally ordered option goes right to sales tax, registration, and insurance costs.
I think the new kit from ST is around $13k. This kit was bought used from a Rennlister.
To be fair, the cost of the PCCBs as an OEM option is by far the cheapest Porsche option. When compared to buying them after-the-fact.
To be fair, the cost of the PCCBs as an OEM option is by far the cheapest Porsche option. When compared to buying them after-the-fact.
Yeah, hella expensive to replace and performance is so so, pad options, not so much. Mine are in boxes with 500 miles, replaced with ST and pagid rsl-1.
Not referring to the hat or bell, I'm referring to the spacer between the hub carrier and the caliper. The spacer is part of the kit that "pushes" the caliper further out to accommodate the larger diameter brake discs. It looks like a washer and is sandwiched between the caliper and the hub carrier.
Looked aluminum to me. I'm sure Gavin at Autoquest can confirm if you need to know.
Normal driving it's like PCCB with little to no noticeable dust. On the track there will be some dust accumulation on the wheels. At least that's the case from what I've seen.
Great thread guys. Thanks for the useful info. I just cooked my PCCBs on the Nordschleife after only 25k road miles and 5k track miles. (991.1 Turbo S with Manthey brake line/pad/fluid upgrade & Eibach lower arms to add GT3 equivalent camber & caster). Surface Transforms def seem like the best option but I'm still not 100% sold. Why?
If you follow the Nürburgring crowd, you'll know the Apex guys. They run a GT2RS taxi and get around 24,000kms out of a set of ST discs. This is simply epic considering how hard the car is driven ALL the time. However, they say they think the PCCB 'feel' is way better. I guess this is entirely subjective, but as a huge fan of the PCCB in daily use, even with the Manthey pad upgrade, I do wonder what I will think...
Also, there's a lot on line and directly from mates at the Ring about how terrible ST aftersales support is. So whilst you can indeed get them reskimmed a number of times, getting it done is a ballache of epic proportion by all accounts. Ha ha! What's you guys' experience?
One more thought: They will last soooo long that I will be onto my next car way before they need replacing. I'm tempted to move them to the new one too. Just have to buy the new one first, swap the shiny PCCBs to my car & swap the hardcore track mods from mine to the new one, leaving my car totally stock for resale/warranty etc.
Great thread guys. Thanks for the useful info. I just cooked my PCCBs on the Nordschleife after only 25k road miles and 5k track miles. (991.1 Turbo S with Manthey brake line/pad/fluid upgrade & Eibach lower arms to add GT3 equivalent camber & caster). Surface Transforms def seem like the best option but I'm still not 100% sold. Why?
If you follow the Nürburgring crowd, you'll know the Apex guys. They run a GT2RS taxi and get around 24,000kms out of a set of ST discs. This is simply epic considering how hard the car is driven ALL the time. However, they say they think the PCCB 'feel' is way better. I guess this is entirely subjective, but as a huge fan of the PCCB in daily use, even with the Manthey pad upgrade, I do wonder what I will think...
Also, there's a lot on line and directly from mates at the Ring about how terrible ST aftersales support is. So whilst you can indeed get them reskimmed a number of times, getting it done is a ballache of epic proportion by all accounts. Ha ha! What's you guys' experience?
One more thought: They will last soooo long that I will be onto my next car way before they need replacing. I'm tempted to move them to the new one too. Just have to buy the new one first, swap the shiny PCCBs to my car & swap the hardcore track mods from mine to the new one, leaving my car totally stock for resale/warranty etc.
cooked in what sense? 5k mi on track is not a lot...
Especially on the Ring - very few hard braking zones compared to most other tracks.
yeah I didnt like to mention that... but you are right ... although having said that I once saw a Porsche Sport Driving School instructor come in after a "hot" lap in a 997 GT2RS with the rear PCCBs
smoking
The Ring has this funny rep as being kind to brakes, but in my 12 years and thousands of laps there, I can safely say it's no picnic for any component of the car. Ha ha!
Edit: to answer Grant's post more specifically, you reach a point of critical mass as you go under 8 min BTG. You start to take some corners flat out that land you in the next bend at speeds exponentially higher than before. The lap goes from a very high speed cruise (kind of - ha ha!) to a full on track attack. Braking into Aremberg, Foxhole, end of Metzgesfeld, into Breidsheid, Bergwerk, Stielstrecke, Brunchen & Schwalbenshwanz becomes much more aggressive, whilst at the same time having to be done in less space. It's why all the Taxi laps are restricted to 8 mins or so, as the costs spiral after that. Eg. at 8 min cruising laps, I can easily do 6, even 7 laps on a tank. 7.45 laps mean 5 laps and she's completely empty. It really is a huge difference in load on the car.
The PCCBs were all low 50s & hi 40s on the Carbotech device at the start of the event. Two days doing 7.40 something laps, using up a full tank each run so about 5 laps without stopping. I always cool the car carefully after each run, but the feel suddenly had less bite towards the end of the second day. The guys at Manthey measured them at the end and all 4 discs are in the high 30s. It is what it is I guess. None of their engineers were surprised, and they live and breathe this stuff every day.
Last edited by Nordschleifers; 09-28-2021 at 06:07 AM.
The Ring has this funny rep as being kind to brakes, but in my 12 years and thousands of laps there, I can safely say it's no picnic for any component of the car. Ha ha!
Edit: to answer Grant's post more specifically, you reach a point of critical mass as you go under 8 min BTG. You start to take some corners flat out that land you in the next bend at speeds exponentially higher than before. The lap goes from a very high speed cruise (kind of - ha ha!) to a full on track attack. Braking into Aremberg, Foxhole, end of Metzgesfeld, into Breidsheid, Bergwerk, Stielstrecke, Brunchen & Schwalbenshwanz becomes much more aggressive, whilst at the same time having to be done in less space. It's why all the Taxi laps are restricted to 8 mins or so, as the costs spiral after that. Eg. at 8 min cruising laps, I can easily do 6, even 7 laps on a tank. 7.45 laps mean 5 laps and she's completely empty. It really is a huge difference in load on the car.
The PCCBs were all low 50s & hi 40s on the Carbotech device at the start of the event. Two days doing 7.40 something laps, using up a full tank each run so about 5 laps without stopping. I always cool the car carefully after each run, but the feel suddenly had less bite towards the end of the second day. The guys at Manthey measured them at the end and all 4 discs are in the high 30s. It is what it is I guess. None of their engineers were surprised, and they live and breathe this stuff every day.
Nordschleifers,
Thanks for the insights on the Ring. We have quite a few customers running there, and I'm always surprised when I hear people say it's an easy braking track. In the back of my head I'm usually thinking, "You're just not driving hard enough."
Please do yourself a favor. Skip carbon ceramic and don't look back. Carbon ceramic discs are not carbon-carbon, and will never be. Our AP Racing Radi-CAL system offers nearly the weight savings of the PCCB, with tons of convenience, performance, and cost-saving benefits. You can run it until you move to the 992 GT3, and then sell it to recoup 65-70% of your investment. The hundreds of clients we've supplied these to all tell us that in hindsight going this route was a no-brainer.
__________________
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs Ferodo Racing Brake Pads Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030 jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
05-27-2020, 02:36 PM
