Aftermarket headers and voiding warranty.
10-30-2019, 01:08 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
if your car comes under scrutiny and you have a full headers system on it...it's pretty simple, you swap them back out before your dealer submits anything to porsche. Yes it costs money, but you'll end up ok on the other side which is more important should something really go wrong.
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BlazinPond (11-01-2019)
10-30-2019, 01:19 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I would love me some headers but even with the best intentioned dealers and service managers its Porsche deciding.
They have denied, shocks and my melted rear bumper even though dealers thought it should be warranty, or even broke it themselves.
They have denied, shocks and my melted rear bumper even though dealers thought it should be warranty, or even broke it themselves.
10-30-2019, 01:50 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
if your car comes under scrutiny and you have a full headers system on it...it's pretty simple, you swap them back out before your dealer submits anything to porsche. Yes it costs money, but you'll end up ok on the other side which is more important should something really go wrong.
10-30-2019, 03:18 PM
#19
but that is a little dishonest, Porsche offer a warranty based on the car they design, test and QA - If you change the specs, I don't see why Porsche or any OEM should be expected to pick up the tab - probably not a very popular opinion but there it is. And I know dealers remove mods and CPO cars and CPO cars with mods - not sure what happens if Porsche discover this.
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montoya (11-01-2019)
10-30-2019, 04:04 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
The topic of exhaust modifications and warranty voiding is a perennial concern and the answers are always the same, yes, no, maybe. What should be kept in mind is that dealers do not honor or deny warranty claims, PCNA does that in the US. Consumer rights laws may offer an avenue to defend against denied warranty claims, but typically a lawyer will be required to be successful. The less radical/invasive the modification, the less likely a red flag will be raised for a warranty issue. Anything cat back is unlikely to raise an eyebrow.
10-30-2019, 05:44 PM
#21
I have full race headers, my neighbor has a CPO with full race headers and a tune, from the dealer, purchased with tune, aftermarket full headers and no questions about it. I think its going to be ok
10-30-2019, 06:21 PM
#22
Race Director
I agree and would go further then dishonest to say it could be construed as fraud. Magnuson-Moss makes it illegal for car companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. To me that doesn't include replacing originally equipped parts with modified parts for race purposes. If you're going to play the role then pay the toll.
Id love some free flowing headers and intake and custom tune....but from my research and talks with the people that decide on warranty there is no possible way I will take the chance. I do well for myself but can’t stomach buying a engine or transmission
10-30-2019, 06:25 PM
#23
Race Director
Bingo...I’d never trust aftermarket cats...if I ever did headers it would be cat less headers due to what you described. Much safer. I’d make sure the headers and muffler didn’t put the car into any sort on lean condition thus burning a piston and so forth.
10-30-2019, 07:15 PM
#24
Are you making a joke about a feline animal getting into the engine compartment and being sucked into the intake?
Catalytic converter guts can indeed eventually break down. But how do you imagine that material might be ingested into the engine? Backwards up through the headers? Against flow AND against gravity? You're smoking crack.
Catalytic converter guts can indeed eventually break down. But how do you imagine that material might be ingested into the engine? Backwards up through the headers? Against flow AND against gravity? You're smoking crack.
All it took was one catalytic converter to start breaking down and be partially ingested through one bank of cylinders - the initial symptoms were excessive oil use followed by apparent power loss and then failure.
How much did this exercise cost the owner $AUD60,000.
Last edited by groundhog; 10-30-2019 at 07:33 PM.
10-31-2019, 09:30 AM
#25
This little incident was investigated by Porsche and cost the owner the price of a new engine and all associated costs. His warranty was denied by Porsche.
All it took was one catalytic converter to start breaking down and be partially ingested through one bank of cylinders - the initial symptoms were excessive oil use followed by apparent power loss and then failure.
How much did this exercise cost the owner $AUD60,000.
All it took was one catalytic converter to start breaking down and be partially ingested through one bank of cylinders - the initial symptoms were excessive oil use followed by apparent power loss and then failure.
How much did this exercise cost the owner $AUD60,000.
I'm sure you're right about everything. Everything, that is, except the phrase, "ingested through one bank of cylinders." There is no way catalytic converter material found its way into any of the engine cylinders.
10-31-2019, 11:52 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
but that is a little dishonest, Porsche offer a warranty based on the car they design, test and QA - If you change the specs, I don't see why Porsche or any OEM should be expected to pick up the tab - probably not a very popular opinion but there it is. And I know dealers remove mods and CPO cars and CPO cars with mods - not sure what happens if Porsche discover this.
Last edited by sechsgang; 10-31-2019 at 12:22 PM.
10-31-2019, 12:16 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
This is when there is something that you did that caused a direct issue and you're trying to hide it where that would be dishonest. If you were to change the cats and muffler (or even headers) and have a motor part have an issue, lets say cams or a crank and having nothing to do or remotely relatable to a freer breathing exhaust...I don't see the issue in not risking the red herring "car has been modified warranty claims denied" box without really deserving it. We are still talking about Magnussen moss here overall, but putting more of the onus on them to prove that something must have been done that changed XY or Z and caused a party failure. If companies didn't look for that easy out, it wouldn't even be a thought. Meanwhile, I've had exhaust on almost every one of my sports cars, and aside from a CEL that turned on in a 2011 gt3 rs because the cats blew out after time...there's NEVER been indication that would ever cause an issue, and all of them still covered under warranty.
10-31-2019, 12:29 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
the aftermarket exhaust vendors advertise changes in power and torque curves, which to me means the engine is then operating outside of the warrantied configuration; if an engine problem occurs I am not sure many have the technical expertise to determine if the change in the engine operating parameters was a contributing factor. I do understand the concern of the easy answer from the OEM, but thats where the law protects the consumer and OEMs do not want to go to court. If you go through the time, effort and expenses of swapping out the exhaust that implies the owner has a concern their mod has caused the issue. But I agree the risk is very low but its no zero either.
10-31-2019, 08:23 PM
#29
Race Director
Exhaust Reversion
It's called exhaust reversion. Exhaust gases can and do flow back.
10-31-2019, 08:24 PM
#30
Yeah, and it's understood if you modify an engine or transmission that you're totally changing parameters as well...and thats on you. But for exhaust work, and especially exhaust work performed at a Porsche dealer (so they know it's been installed right and by their own certified techs)...it's beyond unlikely it's the root of anything short of a new rattle...