Rev limiting/ Throttle behavior on manual rev match - 991.2 GT3 Manual
#31
Rennlist Member
I've noticed a lot of nuances with the throttle mapping in the manual GT3 (and Touring, of course). One way to demonstrate some of these nuances is to try no-lift shifting *not* at full throttle. You'll notice the revs will drop to where they should be in the next gear (lets say from 2nd to 3rd) and hold, similar to having a rev limiter at those revs. Once you hear the flutter, try flooring the throttle — definitely is like a rev limiter
Similarly, do the same thing as above (no-lift shift at partial throttle as you would around town) but instead of shifting from, say, 2nd to 3rd, just leave it in 2nd and don't change to third. It'll do the same thing and hold revs (with the fluttering rev-limiter sound) for 2nd gear. The computer seems to be helping you shift if under any amount of throttle while the clutch is depressed.
So if you're blipping your own downshifts, you may be hitting the throttle on the earlier side and triggering the rev-limit-while-in-current-gear scenario. Obviously you aren't pressing the throttle for a long period of time so when you move to complete the downshift, you aren't depressing the throttle pedal anymore.
In summary, the car allows no-lift shifting even at partial throttle. This will hold revs for either the gear you're gonna want to be in or for your current gear.
Similarly, do the same thing as above (no-lift shift at partial throttle as you would around town) but instead of shifting from, say, 2nd to 3rd, just leave it in 2nd and don't change to third. It'll do the same thing and hold revs (with the fluttering rev-limiter sound) for 2nd gear. The computer seems to be helping you shift if under any amount of throttle while the clutch is depressed.
So if you're blipping your own downshifts, you may be hitting the throttle on the earlier side and triggering the rev-limit-while-in-current-gear scenario. Obviously you aren't pressing the throttle for a long period of time so when you move to complete the downshift, you aren't depressing the throttle pedal anymore.
In summary, the car allows no-lift shifting even at partial throttle. This will hold revs for either the gear you're gonna want to be in or for your current gear.
However I have never had an issue on quick throttle blip downshifting and downshifting two gears to get into high rpm's like the OP has. OP says 15 years experience which is suffice to be a above average driver so there definitely must be something going on with the vehicle.
#32
Sitting still, there's a 4000 RPM rev limiter. If you stomp on the throttle pedal, it can be brought to 5000 RPM (forget whether or not you need to be in 1st with the clutch depressed — it's a faux launch control of sorts). If you're moving (even fairly slowly) you can rev all the way to 9000 RPM.
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This is something that I have found as well but is not widely discussed in the forums. The car does help on upshifts if you have your foot about 15% in and if you keep it there for the next gear. Like you have mentioned the revs drop but drop and hold for the next gear. There is computer guidance on this vehicle even without the sport mode on.
However I have never had an issue on quick throttle blip downshifting and downshifting two gears to get into high rpm's like the OP has. OP says 15 years experience which is suffice to be a above average driver so there definitely must be something going on with the vehicle.
However I have never had an issue on quick throttle blip downshifting and downshifting two gears to get into high rpm's like the OP has. OP says 15 years experience which is suffice to be a above average driver so there definitely must be something going on with the vehicle.
Also own a 6 speed gated manual Murcielago.
It is a bit frustrating to have to change my driving habits to work around the supposed driver 'aide'.
Mine was a Oct 30 2017 original in-service date.
#35
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I took a video on my way home, but am having technical difficulties uploading.
Verdict is:
In neutral, clutch out, revs perfect.
In neutral, clutch in, revs perfect.
Wait until I'm about into the lower gear's gate, clutch still in of course, blip, and it works perfect.
So it's definitely getting confused and thinking I'm trying to no-lift upshift when I blip 'too early' (by the ECU's standards).
'It's not a bug, it's a feature'.
Verdict is:
In neutral, clutch out, revs perfect.
In neutral, clutch in, revs perfect.
Wait until I'm about into the lower gear's gate, clutch still in of course, blip, and it works perfect.
So it's definitely getting confused and thinking I'm trying to no-lift upshift when I blip 'too early' (by the ECU's standards).
'It's not a bug, it's a feature'.
#36
Drifting
I took a video on my way home, but am having technical difficulties uploading.
Verdict is:
In neutral, clutch out, revs perfect.
In neutral, clutch in, revs perfect.
Wait until I'm about into the lower gear's gate, clutch still in of course, blip, and it works perfect.
So it's definitely getting confused and thinking I'm trying to no-lift upshift when I blip 'too early' (by the ECU's standards).
'It's not a bug, it's a feature'.
Verdict is:
In neutral, clutch out, revs perfect.
In neutral, clutch in, revs perfect.
Wait until I'm about into the lower gear's gate, clutch still in of course, blip, and it works perfect.
So it's definitely getting confused and thinking I'm trying to no-lift upshift when I blip 'too early' (by the ECU's standards).
'It's not a bug, it's a feature'.
It would feel weird to me to blip the throttle before downshifting. But that's how people used to do it in cars without synchros (or double clutch), right?
#37
Rennlist Member
The car clearly sounds off. It needs to go in. It shouldn't be functioning that way and it shouldn't be sounding like that.
I don't see how that is anything technique related.
I don't see how that is anything technique related.
#38
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Then it's a technique thing. I've only ever driven manual transmission cars my entire life as well. Granted, I'm just 35. But when I rev-match, I blip the throttle right before I release the clutch after I'm already in gear. I don't blip the throttle before I shift. Transmissions have synchros for a reason. Blip the throttle after you shift gears. That's how it's done. Clutch in, shift, blip throttle, release clutch. That's how I've always done it at least *shrug*
It would feel weird to me to blip the throttle before downshifting. But that's how people used to do it in cars without synchros (or double clutch), right?
It would feel weird to me to blip the throttle before downshifting. But that's how people used to do it in cars without synchros (or double clutch), right?
The murci really ingrained that into me because the revs fall off so quickly (much like a single-mass flywheel on the 997s) so if I wait too long it'll require a heavier blip to get back to even revs.
Oh well, I'll adjust. Maybe it's Porsche's way of nudging me into doing things properly. Just wish we could disable a feature that I'd never intend to use.
#39
Drifting
I just do it all in one single fluid motion. I must just be hitting the gas as I'm just about to leave the higher gear and go across the gate. For me, it definitely feels weird to wait until I'm thoroughly in gear to then blip the throttle, because it seems like the revs fall quite a ways by that point.
The murci really ingrained that into me because the revs fall off so quickly (much like a single-mass flywheel on the 997s) so if I wait too long it'll require a heavier blip to get back to even revs.
Oh well, I'll adjust. Maybe it's Porsche's way of nudging me into doing things properly. Just wish we could disable a feature that I'd never intend to use.
The murci really ingrained that into me because the revs fall off so quickly (much like a single-mass flywheel on the 997s) so if I wait too long it'll require a heavier blip to get back to even revs.
Oh well, I'll adjust. Maybe it's Porsche's way of nudging me into doing things properly. Just wish we could disable a feature that I'd never intend to use.
#40
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here's the video showing neutral revs, and rev matching working properly after I'm out of the original gate.
@99Gdzra
https://streamable.com/h4une
@99Gdzra
https://streamable.com/h4une
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Nacelle (07-02-2019)
#41
Rennlist Member
coming back to the sound; i’ve got 5k miles on mine and not once did it sound like it was drowning.
#42
Here's the video showing neutral revs, and rev matching working properly after I'm out of the original gate.
@99Gdzra
https://streamable.com/h4une
@99Gdzra
https://streamable.com/h4une
#43
Rennlist Member
Here's the video showing neutral revs, and rev matching working properly after I'm out of the original gate.
@99Gdzra
https://streamable.com/h4une
@99Gdzra
https://streamable.com/h4une
Thanks for this, I have had a similar challenge, same as 99Gdzra
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carbondan (07-02-2019)
#44
Dan thanks for the video, I too was running into that issue which has never been a factor in my dozen or so other manual cars, including a 997 GT3. Really odd that it retards the throttle like that as Im used to blipping before fully shifting gears to make my shifts even faster.
What I also find odd is that the auto rev-match in sport mode seems a bit lazy in this car as compared to my 2018 Cayman GTS. The Cayman's is much faster to auto blip and makes everything way smoother. Curious if there's updated firmware for the car to address this. Likely something I'll explore at the dealer soon.
Thanks for the videos and updates! I don't feel crazy anymore.
What I also find odd is that the auto rev-match in sport mode seems a bit lazy in this car as compared to my 2018 Cayman GTS. The Cayman's is much faster to auto blip and makes everything way smoother. Curious if there's updated firmware for the car to address this. Likely something I'll explore at the dealer soon.
Thanks for the videos and updates! I don't feel crazy anymore.
#45
I drove my car to my dealer the other day and my tech looked up any “known” issues on their system and found none. He’s going to hook my car up to PWIS and verify my software is the latest and see if my issues are the same or fixed? Will report back.
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Nacelle (07-03-2019)