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Rev limiting/ Throttle behavior on manual rev match - 991.2 GT3 Manual

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Old 07-01-2019, 03:28 PM
  #31  
stephen k
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Originally Posted by francisluu
I've noticed a lot of nuances with the throttle mapping in the manual GT3 (and Touring, of course). One way to demonstrate some of these nuances is to try no-lift shifting *not* at full throttle. You'll notice the revs will drop to where they should be in the next gear (lets say from 2nd to 3rd) and hold, similar to having a rev limiter at those revs. Once you hear the flutter, try flooring the throttle — definitely is like a rev limiter

Similarly, do the same thing as above (no-lift shift at partial throttle as you would around town) but instead of shifting from, say, 2nd to 3rd, just leave it in 2nd and don't change to third. It'll do the same thing and hold revs (with the fluttering rev-limiter sound) for 2nd gear. The computer seems to be helping you shift if under any amount of throttle while the clutch is depressed.

So if you're blipping your own downshifts, you may be hitting the throttle on the earlier side and triggering the rev-limit-while-in-current-gear scenario. Obviously you aren't pressing the throttle for a long period of time so when you move to complete the downshift, you aren't depressing the throttle pedal anymore.

In summary, the car allows no-lift shifting even at partial throttle. This will hold revs for either the gear you're gonna want to be in or for your current gear.
This is something that I have found as well but is not widely discussed in the forums. The car does help on upshifts if you have your foot about 15% in and if you keep it there for the next gear. Like you have mentioned the revs drop but drop and hold for the next gear. There is computer guidance on this vehicle even without the sport mode on.

However I have never had an issue on quick throttle blip downshifting and downshifting two gears to get into high rpm's like the OP has. OP says 15 years experience which is suffice to be a above average driver so there definitely must be something going on with the vehicle.
Old 07-01-2019, 03:34 PM
  #32  
99Gdzra
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Originally Posted by francisluu
Sitting still, there's a 4000 RPM rev limiter. If you stomp on the throttle pedal, it can be brought to 5000 RPM (forget whether or not you need to be in 1st with the clutch depressed — it's a faux launch control of sorts). If you're moving (even fairly slowly) you can rev all the way to 9000 RPM.
I can’t. My car flutters and barely revs to 3-4K. Moving, rolling, neutral, in gear with clutch depressed whatever, my car WILL NOT FREE REV. Craziest thing some will, some won’t.
Old 07-01-2019, 04:26 PM
  #33  
carbondan
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Originally Posted by stephen k
This is something that I have found as well but is not widely discussed in the forums. The car does help on upshifts if you have your foot about 15% in and if you keep it there for the next gear. Like you have mentioned the revs drop but drop and hold for the next gear. There is computer guidance on this vehicle even without the sport mode on.

However I have never had an issue on quick throttle blip downshifting and downshifting two gears to get into high rpm's like the OP has. OP says 15 years experience which is suffice to be a above average driver so there definitely must be something going on with the vehicle.
Yep 15 years daily driving a fully built WRX with sti 6 speed.
Also own a 6 speed gated manual Murcielago.
It is a bit frustrating to have to change my driving habits to work around the supposed driver 'aide'.

Originally Posted by 99Gdzra
I can’t. My car flutters and barely revs to 3-4K. Moving, rolling, neutral, in gear with clutch depressed whatever, my car WILL NOT FREE REV. Craziest thing some will, some won’t.
Mine was a Oct 30 2017 original in-service date.
Old 07-01-2019, 05:43 PM
  #34  
drdonger
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My car downshifts just fine. Above 5k rpm downshift rev matches are no problem with or without sports button on.
Old 07-01-2019, 09:05 PM
  #35  
carbondan
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I took a video on my way home, but am having technical difficulties uploading.
Verdict is:
In neutral, clutch out, revs perfect.
In neutral, clutch in, revs perfect.
Wait until I'm about into the lower gear's gate, clutch still in of course, blip, and it works perfect.
So it's definitely getting confused and thinking I'm trying to no-lift upshift when I blip 'too early' (by the ECU's standards).

'It's not a bug, it's a feature'.
Old 07-01-2019, 09:08 PM
  #36  
FourT6and2
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Originally Posted by carbondan
I took a video on my way home, but am having technical difficulties uploading.
Verdict is:
In neutral, clutch out, revs perfect.
In neutral, clutch in, revs perfect.
Wait until I'm about into the lower gear's gate, clutch still in of course, blip, and it works perfect.
So it's definitely getting confused and thinking I'm trying to no-lift upshift when I blip 'too early' (by the ECU's standards).

'It's not a bug, it's a feature'.
Then it's a technique thing. I've only ever driven manual transmission cars my entire life as well. Granted, I'm just 35. But when I rev-match, I blip the throttle right before I release the clutch after I'm already in gear. I don't blip the throttle before I shift. Transmissions have synchros for a reason. Blip the throttle after you shift gears. That's how it's done. Clutch in, shift, blip throttle, release clutch. That's how I've always done it at least *shrug*

It would feel weird to me to blip the throttle before downshifting. But that's how people used to do it in cars without synchros (or double clutch), right?
Old 07-01-2019, 09:18 PM
  #37  
Ceepe
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The car clearly sounds off. It needs to go in. It shouldn't be functioning that way and it shouldn't be sounding like that.
I don't see how that is anything technique related.
Old 07-01-2019, 09:19 PM
  #38  
carbondan
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Originally Posted by FourT6and2
Then it's a technique thing. I've only ever driven manual transmission cars my entire life as well. Granted, I'm just 35. But when I rev-match, I blip the throttle right before I release the clutch after I'm already in gear. I don't blip the throttle before I shift. Transmissions have synchros for a reason. Blip the throttle after you shift gears. That's how it's done. Clutch in, shift, blip throttle, release clutch. That's how I've always done it at least *shrug*

It would feel weird to me to blip the throttle before downshifting. But that's how people used to do it in cars without synchros (or double clutch), right?
I just do it all in one single fluid motion. I must just be hitting the gas as I'm just about to leave the higher gear and go across the gate. For me, it definitely feels weird to wait until I'm thoroughly in gear to then blip the throttle, because it seems like the revs fall quite a ways by that point.
The murci really ingrained that into me because the revs fall off so quickly (much like a single-mass flywheel on the 997s) so if I wait too long it'll require a heavier blip to get back to even revs.
Oh well, I'll adjust. Maybe it's Porsche's way of nudging me into doing things properly. Just wish we could disable a feature that I'd never intend to use.
Old 07-01-2019, 09:22 PM
  #39  
FourT6and2
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Originally Posted by carbondan
I just do it all in one single fluid motion. I must just be hitting the gas as I'm just about to leave the higher gear and go across the gate. For me, it definitely feels weird to wait until I'm thoroughly in gear to then blip the throttle, because it seems like the revs fall quite a ways by that point.
The murci really ingrained that into me because the revs fall off so quickly (much like a single-mass flywheel on the 997s) so if I wait too long it'll require a heavier blip to get back to even revs.
Oh well, I'll adjust. Maybe it's Porsche's way of nudging me into doing things properly. Just wish we could disable a feature that I'd never intend to use.
Yeah I see what you're saying. A lot of the motions have to happen either simultaneously, or within a split second. My previous manual car was garbage, though. So the GT3 is a huge step up. So far so good. Hope you get it sorted.
Old 07-01-2019, 09:38 PM
  #40  
carbondan
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Here's the video showing neutral revs, and rev matching working properly after I'm out of the original gate.
@99Gdzra

https://streamable.com/h4une
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:34 PM
  #41  
whojoemama
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coming back to the sound; i’ve got 5k miles on mine and not once did it sound like it was drowning.
Old 07-02-2019, 11:41 AM
  #42  
99Gdzra
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Originally Posted by carbondan
Here's the video showing neutral revs, and rev matching working properly after I'm out of the original gate.
@99Gdzra

https://streamable.com/h4une
Very nicely detailed video... thank you for making it. Quirky cars in my opinion. I come from McLarens and they’re quirky, but not this quirky. My old 997.2 TTS was a gas and go, push a single button launch kinda car... this one, not so much. Ha!
Old 07-02-2019, 04:47 PM
  #43  
Nacelle
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Originally Posted by carbondan
Here's the video showing neutral revs, and rev matching working properly after I'm out of the original gate.
@99Gdzra

https://streamable.com/h4une

Thanks for this, I have had a similar challenge, same as 99Gdzra
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:51 PM
  #44  
bigdog1250
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Dan thanks for the video, I too was running into that issue which has never been a factor in my dozen or so other manual cars, including a 997 GT3. Really odd that it retards the throttle like that as Im used to blipping before fully shifting gears to make my shifts even faster.

What I also find odd is that the auto rev-match in sport mode seems a bit lazy in this car as compared to my 2018 Cayman GTS. The Cayman's is much faster to auto blip and makes everything way smoother. Curious if there's updated firmware for the car to address this. Likely something I'll explore at the dealer soon.

Thanks for the videos and updates! I don't feel crazy anymore.
Old 07-03-2019, 02:46 PM
  #45  
99Gdzra
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I drove my car to my dealer the other day and my tech looked up any “known” issues on their system and found none. He’s going to hook my car up to PWIS and verify my software is the latest and see if my issues are the same or fixed? Will report back.
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