RennOracle

Regulations changed. Before you could do that, now there has to be a mix of (common?) options. That's why the 991.2 gt3 rs came about heavier than the .1 rs even tho it's lighter compared with a .1 rs with the same exact spec.
The thing with the pista is that on base spec has almost every carbon part ticked. And another reason Ferraris usually are heavier than expected is because they use pretty big fuel tanks.

C.J. Ichiban

Mclaren's don't offer an extended tank- Porsche's quoted weight is with the smaller tank.

Porsches generally get better fuel economy than the v8 ferraris but now that they are 2.9L v6 turbos and 3.9L v8 turbos its shifted the equation. Ferraris always needed a 23 gallon/ 100L + tank to get 300 miles. McLarens usually have 65-75L tanks since they get 20-25 hwy mpg.

Catorce

I know I am a Rennlist site sponsor and multiple Porsche owner, but I am about to say something very sacrilegious here:

If I had found McLaren sooner I might not even have gone to Porsche, they are that good. The cars are faster and better looking (subjective, I know) than anything Porsche makes, there are no "can't touch this" dealer shenanigans, and the only downside is depreciation.

I do all my own work so maintenance is irrelevant to me.

McLaren went from nothing to viable in 7 years in terms of street cars. Good on them.

Hex

They only downside is depreciation? That down side is not so small. After owning three McLarens, I find that downside to pretty much overshadow everything else about the brand and it hasn't gotten any better since the days of the 12C. In fact, the way they are rushing cars to market seems to have only made it worse. Great if you want to be known as the brand for men who don't care about money or whom have unlimited funds. And by the way, they are not faster than Porsche. For example, when was the last time a McLaren set a record on the "Ring?" Heck, they don't even announce their times there. They must be pretty embarrassing. LOL

Catorce

I get it, but I am trying to strictly speaking focus on the technical merits of the cars, not the financial aspects.

Aside from the GT cars, I don't see Porsche being any better with late model cars. The only ones that retain their values seem to be the slightly older ones, like the ones I collect. A new Carrera XX or Turbo bought and then resold also takes a bath.

Porsche's GT cars seem to be the only bright spot, but mere mortals can't always get those.

As to the Ring time, who cares? A McLaren vs just about any Porsche on the street (where it counts) is generally faster in any metric you care to compare it against. I personally could care less about Nurburgring times, chiefly because I don't drive my cars on the Nurb....

ChicagoWhale

Just being honest here, I've never heard that Porsche's flat engines would tear themselves apart due to harmonic imbalances at high rpm's. And, because of this, they need more countermeasures, more/longer bolts which add weight, etc. If anyone has any additional information on this, I'd like to understand it.

ChicagoWhale

It's difficult to argue with any credibility that both McLarens and Porsches owners "take a bath." We all know the story with GT cars and the lack of meaningful depreciation, so let's look at Turbo S's. Go to Cars.com and look at the marketplace of a 2-3 year old Turbo S coupe or cab. Now compare that to the price of any comparable 2-3 year old McLaren model you wish versus the original MSRP range of that model. Sure, some Porsches are worse than others, but make sure you're not comparing apples to bananas.

I've never known a Mclaren owner to publicly state their concern for losing money while they own one. It's sort of like announcing to the world, "Look at me! I've made a huge financial mistake!" No one wants to announce that. In fact, they invariable do the opposite; they announce to everyone, "I'm so wealthy, I don't care. Look at my McMansion. It has huge white columns like a 1920's bank, and a library with rich mahogany wood." When they eventually sell it for $100k loss, they complain how expensive the oil change was.

Regarding Ring time, most everyone outside the US muscle car market cares. These are race cars, and the Ring is the ultimate test for speed, handling and durability. Many car companies won't post their lap times because (1) they suck, and (2) their cars can barely handle a lap without cracking in half or flying into the rails. They certainly don't want to encourage others to test the results for fear the rear axle will detach and land in the shrubbery. Furthermore, the street is absolutely not "where it counts" unless you're an 18-year old with a Mustang peeling out of cars and coffee and revving guys at stop lights. Sure, many owners in the US don't drive on the Ring, but the results of the Ring can be used as a barometer of what that car is capable of under the most demanding conditions.

Hex

On the street? What are you talking about....roll racing or drag racing? If that's your metric, get a demon. Only a fool goes 10/10ths on the street anyway. As for any place with curves, be it a canyon, if you could get it closed down for testing, or a track, I'll take a GT2RS any day. In fact, I sold my McLaren 720S for my GT3RS and I have no regrets with the exception of buying the 720S in the first place. And, since that time, I've added a GT2RS which I find to be the most thrilling, most potent car I've ever owned, and believe me, I've owned a few. I must add a caveat here, I loved my 675LT and I didn't suffer much depreciation with it, and I may get another McLaren special addition in the future based on that experience. By the way, the "Ring" is a benchmark for cars as it throws everything a car can encounter on a track or a road pretty much anywhere in the world and it separates the worthy ones from the pretenders.

isv

Oh yes they most certainly are on a 'normal' GP style track like Silverstone or Spa. Even a gt2rs without Cup2 R is going to struggle to keep up with the 720 as long as it's on corsas. Mclaren have their faults (imo to do with quality control and service capacity and considerable ones at time) but being very very quick is definitely not an issue for their cars.

Hex

While it's true both cars are insanely fast when you put them on the best rubber, the GT2RS holds numerous track records and the 720S, not so much. Plus get one of each and lap the hell out of them for a while and see which one holds up. The McLaren can't hold a candle to the Porsche in terms of reliability. In fact, you're supposed to take the McLaren to the shop before and after each track day, and if you don't, watch them deny your warranty claim when it breaks. Really? What a joke.

isv

Well someone I know with a 720 drove to Spa after collection and did a series of 2:35/36s then drove back..... and the car didn't break. And I haven't seen any instance of a 2rs without Cup2R get under 2:35 there.. and the 2rs will run out of water in a short number of laps too. But yes I agree in general Mclaren reliability isn't going to be as good as Porsche even if they hadn't had an entire series of engines throw faults like the 991.1 gt3.

About the warranty inspections from Mclaren - that's a guideline. I've yet to actually know anyone to actually be denied a warranty claim due to not strictly following that warranty inspection...

Hex

OK isv. Fair enough. I like the way you can debate in a civil manner and you have my respect. Let's agree that they are both amazing cars and that we just have different views. By the way, I added a Manthey tank to my GT2RS and it can go all day without adding water. Cheers!

Catorce

The part you are forgetting regarding the GT2RS is that you can't just go in and buy one. Between ludicrous ADMs and cherry picking of clients, comparing a GT2RS to a 720s is moot because for the most part, GT2 is an unobtainium car. Most people will not be ALLOWED to purchase a GT2RS.

ipse dixit

Yes, you can.

You just need enough money.

Catorce

Are you referring to the on average 100K ADM?

Meaning you need to pay 100k extra for the privilege of owning the car? This is exactly what I am talking about, and why Mac is stealing so many Porsche sales. Couple that with bland styling, and for 400K I'd say no thanks. And I do have the money.