GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-15-2018, 10:08 PM
#976
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Yes. Story below. Looks like a culture of deceit at that dealership.
Updated: 5:04 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013 | Posted: 4:50 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013
Porsche Cars sues Fla. dealership over trade secrets
By Christopher Seward
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Atlanta-based Porsche Cars North America is suing a Florida dealership, accusing it of secretly recording trade secrets about upcoming 2014 and 2015 vehicles during an Atlanta conference and derailing marketing plans for the vehicles’ roll-out. The suit filed in Fulton County Superior Court against Pompano Beach-based Champion Porsche seeks unspecified damages. Porsche Cars is the exclusive importer of Porsche sports cars and SUVs for the United States.
Spokesman Bernd Harling would not say how the company’s marketing plans have been affected by Champion’s actions. Champion General Manager Tony Sciple did not return calls for comment.
In its lawsuit filed in Fulton County Superior Court, Porsche Cars said it held a marketing conference on Sept. 23 at the W Hotel in Atlanta for dealers, during which highly confidential and proprietary information was disclosed about upcoming Porsche models. The information dealt with design, engineering, pricing, product launch and marketing strategy for 2014 Boxter GTS, Cayman GTS, 911 Targa and Targa S and 2015 Macan.
Porsche Cars said it discloses the information so dealers can get a head start in developing their own marketing strategies. The company said it did not plan to release the information publicly until 2014, but three days after the event, images from Porsche Cars’ PowerPoint presentation began appearing on Champion’s website and the personal sites of two of its representatives who had attended the Atlanta “Grass Roots Meeting.” Porsche Cars said the two Champion staffers apparently used “a tablet or other handheld personal computing device” to record renderings of car models and other information.
The company said Champion complied with its Sept. 27 demand to take the material down from the websites but by that time details were already being reported on more than 40 websites. “The damage had already been done,” the lawsuit said.
The company said the spread of the material was impossible to contain even though it promptly sent out take-down notices citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Porsche Cars said Champion had a duty to maintain the confidentiality of the conference and that the material posted was covered by the Georgia Trade Secrets Act."
Updated: 5:04 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013 | Posted: 4:50 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013
Porsche Cars sues Fla. dealership over trade secrets
By Christopher Seward
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Atlanta-based Porsche Cars North America is suing a Florida dealership, accusing it of secretly recording trade secrets about upcoming 2014 and 2015 vehicles during an Atlanta conference and derailing marketing plans for the vehicles’ roll-out. The suit filed in Fulton County Superior Court against Pompano Beach-based Champion Porsche seeks unspecified damages. Porsche Cars is the exclusive importer of Porsche sports cars and SUVs for the United States.
Spokesman Bernd Harling would not say how the company’s marketing plans have been affected by Champion’s actions. Champion General Manager Tony Sciple did not return calls for comment.
In its lawsuit filed in Fulton County Superior Court, Porsche Cars said it held a marketing conference on Sept. 23 at the W Hotel in Atlanta for dealers, during which highly confidential and proprietary information was disclosed about upcoming Porsche models. The information dealt with design, engineering, pricing, product launch and marketing strategy for 2014 Boxter GTS, Cayman GTS, 911 Targa and Targa S and 2015 Macan.
Porsche Cars said it discloses the information so dealers can get a head start in developing their own marketing strategies. The company said it did not plan to release the information publicly until 2014, but three days after the event, images from Porsche Cars’ PowerPoint presentation began appearing on Champion’s website and the personal sites of two of its representatives who had attended the Atlanta “Grass Roots Meeting.” Porsche Cars said the two Champion staffers apparently used “a tablet or other handheld personal computing device” to record renderings of car models and other information.
The company said Champion complied with its Sept. 27 demand to take the material down from the websites but by that time details were already being reported on more than 40 websites. “The damage had already been done,” the lawsuit said.
The company said the spread of the material was impossible to contain even though it promptly sent out take-down notices citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Porsche Cars said Champion had a duty to maintain the confidentiality of the conference and that the material posted was covered by the Georgia Trade Secrets Act."
09-15-2018, 10:15 PM
#977
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If there is a contract executed between Buyer and Champion, then the contract is enforceable regardless of the fraud committed by the salesman. The salesman is the agent for the dealership and his signature binds the dealership. So, yes there is an enforceable contract. But that does not truly end the matter. The real question is this: What is the remedy? In a breach of contract case, there are two primary remedies. One remedy is a claim for specific performance (force the parties to do what the contract said, i.e. sell the customer the specific car that they bargained for).
The other remedy is a claim for money damages. In most cases, this would simply be a refund of the deposit paid, plus any attorneys fees and costs incurred. But, in some cases, this could also include a claim for lost profits. For example, if the customer was paying MSRP for a GT2RS and the GT2RS was actually worth $100k over MSRP, then the customer could claim lost profit damages. Although, most contracts limit "consequential damages" such as lost profits.
The remedies are mutually exclusive, You cannot force specific performance of the contract (get the car) and recover money damages (the deposit and or lost profits).
Specific performance does not seem like a real option with Porsche GT cars - simply because of the limited number of cars available. If there is no real car to sell to the Buyer, then specific performance is impossible. Thus, the Buyer is left with recovering the deposit.
While the Buyer's (or their lawyers) might not be able to connect Champion with the actual fraud, they can prevail on either a breach of contract claim or a negligence claim to recover the deposits from Champions.
Side note: I've had similar cases over the years. One case was eerily similar - my client was a pool contractor that sells and constructs swimming pools (average sale price of $150,000). A salesman for my client set up a company that was very similar in name to my client's name. The salesman would "sell" the pool and take a deposit. Then, he would negotiate the check and deposit it in his similarly named company account. So the customer thinks it has a contract and my client's agent signed the contract, so it was bound to the contract. But, my client never received the deposit. Although the only real recourse against the pool company was for refund of the deposits (or if they are stand-up like my client, they build the pool per the contract terms and have to take a loss to preserve their reputation and make the customer happy).
The other remedy is a claim for money damages. In most cases, this would simply be a refund of the deposit paid, plus any attorneys fees and costs incurred. But, in some cases, this could also include a claim for lost profits. For example, if the customer was paying MSRP for a GT2RS and the GT2RS was actually worth $100k over MSRP, then the customer could claim lost profit damages. Although, most contracts limit "consequential damages" such as lost profits.
The remedies are mutually exclusive, You cannot force specific performance of the contract (get the car) and recover money damages (the deposit and or lost profits).
Specific performance does not seem like a real option with Porsche GT cars - simply because of the limited number of cars available. If there is no real car to sell to the Buyer, then specific performance is impossible. Thus, the Buyer is left with recovering the deposit.
While the Buyer's (or their lawyers) might not be able to connect Champion with the actual fraud, they can prevail on either a breach of contract claim or a negligence claim to recover the deposits from Champions.
Side note: I've had similar cases over the years. One case was eerily similar - my client was a pool contractor that sells and constructs swimming pools (average sale price of $150,000). A salesman for my client set up a company that was very similar in name to my client's name. The salesman would "sell" the pool and take a deposit. Then, he would negotiate the check and deposit it in his similarly named company account. So the customer thinks it has a contract and my client's agent signed the contract, so it was bound to the contract. But, my client never received the deposit. Although the only real recourse against the pool company was for refund of the deposits (or if they are stand-up like my client, they build the pool per the contract terms and have to take a loss to preserve their reputation and make the customer happy).
Here's is the key sentence from 911therapy:
If there is a contract executed between Buyer and Champion
Sookralli allegedly setup a shell company called Champion Autosport, and AFAIK this is not a legitimate Champion subsidiary/affiliate company?
Plus if's not hard to imagine Sookralli forged official-looking documents/signatures to make it look like the agreement is legit.
In this case does it still stand in court that the contract was legally executed and that Champion was the entity in question, as opposed to Sookralli's fake shell company?
To me this is like if someone was able to say....scam potential Ford GT buyers with fake shell company (Ford GT Program, or whatever) and fake Ford documents and then after it was "executed", the dude runs away with the money and now Ford is possibly on the hook even though every document/intention from beginning to end was fraudulent?
09-15-2018, 10:34 PM
#978
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This type of scam with its elaborate setup probably means SS/wife has already setup plans to bail out of the USA and also take the money with them (though seems like it can be hard to move 2.5M USD out of the US and into a foreign account....swiss bank account?)
For sure they had their plane tickets booked, passport/visa all sorted out and a place setup to move into in some other 3rd world country most likely.....the only thing is if he is able to be caught.
Hope the assailant gets away with this and remains low key in a country which doesn't extradite. That'll teach a lot of these goofy victims a lesson along with these flippers.. Really hope the flippers take a fat L on this one.. For the genuine buyers... Hope you win it back in another way.
Yeah my opinion conflicts with everyone.. Boo hoo. Go Shiraaz and wife!
Yeah my opinion conflicts with everyone.. Boo hoo. Go Shiraaz and wife!
09-15-2018, 11:38 PM
#979
You honestly think they put that statement out and would now reneg on it? Cmon, give it a rest. Everyone’s gonna get their money back, as was likely all along. We can put the pitchforks away,
09-15-2018, 11:45 PM
#980
Hope the assailant gets away with this and remains low key in a country which doesn't extradite. That'll teach a lot of these goofy victims a lesson along with these flippers.. Really hope the flippers take a fat L on this one.. For the genuine buyers... Hope you win it back in another way.
Yeah my opinion conflicts with everyone.. Boo hoo. Go Shiraaz and wife!
Yeah my opinion conflicts with everyone.. Boo hoo. Go Shiraaz and wife!
09-15-2018, 11:49 PM
#981
Most likely.
This type of scam with its elaborate setup probably means SS/wife has already setup plans to bail out of the USA and also take the money with them (though seems like it can be hard to move 2.5M USD out of the US and into a foreign account....swiss bank account?)
For sure they had their plane tickets booked, passport/visa all sorted out and a place setup to move into in some other 3rd world country most likely.....the only thing is if he is able to be caught.
.
This type of scam with its elaborate setup probably means SS/wife has already setup plans to bail out of the USA and also take the money with them (though seems like it can be hard to move 2.5M USD out of the US and into a foreign account....swiss bank account?)
For sure they had their plane tickets booked, passport/visa all sorted out and a place setup to move into in some other 3rd world country most likely.....the only thing is if he is able to be caught.
.
09-16-2018, 12:48 AM
#983
Race Director
Originally Posted by Archimedes
You honestly think they put that statement out and would now reneg on it? Cmon, give it a rest. Everyone’s gonna get their money back, as was likely all along. We can put the pitchforks away,
Have you even followed this whole story?
Just coming in at the tail end and know it all now?
09-16-2018, 12:56 AM
#984
Race Director
I wouldn't buy a bottled water from those damn vampires. God damn dealer acts like Shiraaz was some part time auto detailer there. Yeah, he had an office in back of the women's restroom. We barely remember him. Who do we think we are? A bunch of testa di cazzos???
Martin has finally been legitimized with STEALERSHIPS!!
Last edited by STG; 09-16-2018 at 01:13 AM.
09-16-2018, 12:56 AM
#985
Based on the fact that it seems like an uproar/media frenzy was needed to get Champion in line and finally say the right things/maybe start doing the right things (what does that say about them), I personally wouldn't relent.... No mercy boys
09-16-2018, 02:10 AM
#987
This is unpopular opinion but I actually don't think champion's actions were as egregious as everyone else states OTHER THAN the fact this guy had a previous scam with the 911R and should have been canned then. He should have been given the boot long before any of this was able to happen, but I also feel this could happen at any dealer and it's not necessarily a "champion" issue.
- I've given many a deposit to dealerships via wire and CC. It's always been an assumed trust that 1// if they're a sales associate that I've met in-person or phone/email with an official dealer affiliation that they are providing me with a legit wire/cc charge and 2// once I receive a sales agreement or confirmation number I'm good to go.
- The above is easily faked. People keep criticizing champion's accounting but if this guy was doing all of this off the books with fake accounts and fake documents how would that even hit champions system for accounting, tracking allocations etc. to raise any flags? I'd actually love to know what flags people think should have been caught here because maybe I'm just naive and missing it.
- The #1 flag to me would be customers asking about allocations and orders after they placed a deposit but the dealership likely just directed them back to SS, who before skipping town would probably just provide more falsified updates and kept customers quiet.
- How many of us deal with SAs almost exclusively over text/phone? I barely ever email my SAs, so corporate oversight into skimming emails etc. wouldn't catch almost any of my conversations.
- Again, once I'm given a sales agreement and confirmation number/printout I trust everything is copacetic and in hindsight this is way too easy to fake. I guess my point is that this is all very easily manipulated and (although probably in the minority) I could buy the fact champion didn't know. Again, it's the prior 911R fiasco that tells me they should have gotten rid of this guy and aren't innocent, but everything else seems like it could happen to any dealer...
Yea I'm sure champion could have done more to catch this but their main failure in my eyes is letting this guy stick around after the Rampage 911R incident. Either way, I actually feel terrible for every other SA and innocent employee there. How many employees ("#1 dealer in America", so their employee headcount has to be high) are just operating in their own world looking out for themselves and their customers are now devastated by this and have to deal with a damaged reputation and lost sales? All I'm saying is I feel bad for the people not involved because I'm sure there's plenty. No that doesn't take away from the victims of the scam but I think you need to look at all sides here.
- I've given many a deposit to dealerships via wire and CC. It's always been an assumed trust that 1// if they're a sales associate that I've met in-person or phone/email with an official dealer affiliation that they are providing me with a legit wire/cc charge and 2// once I receive a sales agreement or confirmation number I'm good to go.
- The above is easily faked. People keep criticizing champion's accounting but if this guy was doing all of this off the books with fake accounts and fake documents how would that even hit champions system for accounting, tracking allocations etc. to raise any flags? I'd actually love to know what flags people think should have been caught here because maybe I'm just naive and missing it.
- The #1 flag to me would be customers asking about allocations and orders after they placed a deposit but the dealership likely just directed them back to SS, who before skipping town would probably just provide more falsified updates and kept customers quiet.
- How many of us deal with SAs almost exclusively over text/phone? I barely ever email my SAs, so corporate oversight into skimming emails etc. wouldn't catch almost any of my conversations.
- Again, once I'm given a sales agreement and confirmation number/printout I trust everything is copacetic and in hindsight this is way too easy to fake. I guess my point is that this is all very easily manipulated and (although probably in the minority) I could buy the fact champion didn't know. Again, it's the prior 911R fiasco that tells me they should have gotten rid of this guy and aren't innocent, but everything else seems like it could happen to any dealer...
Yea I'm sure champion could have done more to catch this but their main failure in my eyes is letting this guy stick around after the Rampage 911R incident. Either way, I actually feel terrible for every other SA and innocent employee there. How many employees ("#1 dealer in America", so their employee headcount has to be high) are just operating in their own world looking out for themselves and their customers are now devastated by this and have to deal with a damaged reputation and lost sales? All I'm saying is I feel bad for the people not involved because I'm sure there's plenty. No that doesn't take away from the victims of the scam but I think you need to look at all sides here.
09-16-2018, 02:41 AM
#988
Drifting
I would like to comment on dr chill’s statement made earlier. I was contacted by the dealer earlier and was able to work something out. Does that make me whole again ? Not sure if I am able to comment on this Quite yet but let’s just say I am glad I don’t have to go through the legal troubles. Thanks for all the RL for helpful advice. Lesson learned on my end, will update the group to see if promises are kept.
09-16-2018, 04:43 AM
#989
I wouldn't buy a bottled water from those damn vampires. God damn dealer acts like Shiraaz was some part time auto detailer there. Yeah, he had an office in back of the women's restroom. We barely remember him. Who do we think we are? A bunch of testa di cazzos???
Martin has finally been legitimized with STEALERSHIPS!!
09-16-2018, 05:16 AM
#990
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looks like the Fuhrer is also on the list of those with missing deposits...
http://captiongenerator.com/1101262/...ampion-Porsche
http://captiongenerator.com/1101262/...ampion-Porsche