2019 GT3 RS Mark Up - what's fair?
04-26-2018, 03:43 AM
#151
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I’ll try to answer some of your questions. The more facts you're given, the less suspicious you'll be.
With exception of the 918 VIP program, PCNA does not dictate to dealers which clients should receive specific allocations. It is solely at the dealers’ discretion to determine where the allocations go. When PCNA distributes 35 GT3 allocations to a particular dealer, those allocations are absolutely NOT tied to specific v070 order demands or v070 commission numbers. You voiced a concern that PCNA might have given your dealer an allocation specifically tagged for you, but it does not work that way. GT allocations are normally distributed to dealers in bulk. If a dealer got 35 allocations all at once, the only thing a dealer sees is that he got 5 allocations across 7 months each, or some variation of that. Then the dealer starts assigning those allocations to whomever they choose. The allocations do NOT come from PCNA already tagged for a particular client.
There are always exceptions, of course. Very rarely, but sometimes, PCNA will unexpectedly drop an allocation into a dealer’s EHB tagged for some sort of (non-918) VIP. When this happens, the dealer must sell it to that particular individual. An example of this would be if the CEO of Mobil 1 asked Porsche for a GT2RS. Because of the strong relationship between Porsche and Mobil 1, PCNA would drop an allocation into, say, Champion Porsche’s EHB so the CEO of Mobil 1 can have the car at his vacation house in Miami. Very rare, outlier examples like that...
Once the dealer has real, open allocations to distribute to his clients (and if he uses the v070 order demands), the dealer can simply click on a drop-down box and convert that v070 order-demand into a real v200 KF* allocation. If it is done this way, the car will never auto-populate onto the dealer’s website for sale once it exits production (v300). Porsche put this software in place so when a client orders a car it does not show up for sale on the dealer webpage. The opposite is true, too; if the car is NOT designated as a KF* car once it hits v300, it will automatically upload to the webpage to ensure all available, open new inventory is properly listed for sale and no open cars are missed. These are the cars you see with generic, stock photos and always listed for MSRP on a dealer’s page; they have exited production and are en route to the dealer.
If a dealer was truly converting his v070 order demands into v200 KF cars when he received an open GT3 allocation, his new GT3’s would not continually auto-populate onto his webpage once the car hits v300. When the aforementioned "white knight" stands on his soapbox and grandstands to a forum for over a year that he is converting his v070 order demands by a "point system," but yet all his new GT3's appear online for sale without being in KF status.... well... something doesn't add up.
I’ll add more to this later.
***KF = real customer car, already pre-sold. Not a car ordered for open inventory. KF cars do not auto-populate at v300.
With exception of the 918 VIP program, PCNA does not dictate to dealers which clients should receive specific allocations. It is solely at the dealers’ discretion to determine where the allocations go. When PCNA distributes 35 GT3 allocations to a particular dealer, those allocations are absolutely NOT tied to specific v070 order demands or v070 commission numbers. You voiced a concern that PCNA might have given your dealer an allocation specifically tagged for you, but it does not work that way. GT allocations are normally distributed to dealers in bulk. If a dealer got 35 allocations all at once, the only thing a dealer sees is that he got 5 allocations across 7 months each, or some variation of that. Then the dealer starts assigning those allocations to whomever they choose. The allocations do NOT come from PCNA already tagged for a particular client.
There are always exceptions, of course. Very rarely, but sometimes, PCNA will unexpectedly drop an allocation into a dealer’s EHB tagged for some sort of (non-918) VIP. When this happens, the dealer must sell it to that particular individual. An example of this would be if the CEO of Mobil 1 asked Porsche for a GT2RS. Because of the strong relationship between Porsche and Mobil 1, PCNA would drop an allocation into, say, Champion Porsche’s EHB so the CEO of Mobil 1 can have the car at his vacation house in Miami. Very rare, outlier examples like that...
Once the dealer has real, open allocations to distribute to his clients (and if he uses the v070 order demands), the dealer can simply click on a drop-down box and convert that v070 order-demand into a real v200 KF* allocation. If it is done this way, the car will never auto-populate onto the dealer’s website for sale once it exits production (v300). Porsche put this software in place so when a client orders a car it does not show up for sale on the dealer webpage. The opposite is true, too; if the car is NOT designated as a KF* car once it hits v300, it will automatically upload to the webpage to ensure all available, open new inventory is properly listed for sale and no open cars are missed. These are the cars you see with generic, stock photos and always listed for MSRP on a dealer’s page; they have exited production and are en route to the dealer.
If a dealer was truly converting his v070 order demands into v200 KF cars when he received an open GT3 allocation, his new GT3’s would not continually auto-populate onto his webpage once the car hits v300. When the aforementioned "white knight" stands on his soapbox and grandstands to a forum for over a year that he is converting his v070 order demands by a "point system," but yet all his new GT3's appear online for sale without being in KF status.... well... something doesn't add up.
I’ll add more to this later.
***KF = real customer car, already pre-sold. Not a car ordered for open inventory. KF cars do not auto-populate at v300.
Its true that this is how it "should" work, but the system does have a lot of bugs. Without naming some notable business solution suites that causes a lot of compatibility issues, depending on which business suites the dealer uses to manage their internal inventory, pictures, info linked with management for sites such as Cars.com, Autotrader, CarsGurus, and enterprise inventory, it causes a lot of bugs to the system.
I've seen too many cases in which an allocation was designated to KF V200 on the first day the allocation was received, and never touched once again. However, that car still showed up on website when it reached V300 with a vin number. At first, thought it was a mistake, but after seeing it numerous times, its a known bug. Many other dealers have reported the same issue. Vice versa, many have reported their LF orders did not populate to the site and had to manually key it in later. Its possible that wherever you are have a perfect system, but that's not the case everywhere.
04-26-2018, 04:06 AM
#152
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Originally Posted by chaosoul
I think what you mean is "the car should not have auto populated on the dealer's website"
Its true that this is how it "should" work, but the system does have a lot of bugs. Without naming some notable business solution suites that causes a lot of compatibility issues, depending on which business suites the dealer uses to manage their internal inventory, pictures, info linked with management for sites such as Cars.com, Autotrader, CarsGurus, and enterprise inventory, it causes a lot of bugs to the system.
I've seen too many cases in which an allocation was designated to KF V200 on the first day the allocation was received, and never touched once again. However, that car still showed up on website when it reached V300 with a vin number. At first, thought it was a mistake, but after seeing it numerous times, its a known bug. Many other dealers have reported the same issue. Vice versa, many have reported their LF orders did not populate to the site and had to manually key it in later. Its possible that wherever you are have a perfect system, but that's not the case everywhere.
Its true that this is how it "should" work, but the system does have a lot of bugs. Without naming some notable business solution suites that causes a lot of compatibility issues, depending on which business suites the dealer uses to manage their internal inventory, pictures, info linked with management for sites such as Cars.com, Autotrader, CarsGurus, and enterprise inventory, it causes a lot of bugs to the system.
I've seen too many cases in which an allocation was designated to KF V200 on the first day the allocation was received, and never touched once again. However, that car still showed up on website when it reached V300 with a vin number. At first, thought it was a mistake, but after seeing it numerous times, its a known bug. Many other dealers have reported the same issue. Vice versa, many have reported their LF orders did not populate to the site and had to manually key it in later. Its possible that wherever you are have a perfect system, but that's not the case everywhere.
04-26-2018, 01:53 PM
#153
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Never an apology for a false accusation- what exactly is the charge Judge Whale?
Touring GT3:
allocated on top,
was changeable for 6 hrs
Called customer on list, he texted me spec
Meanwhile he sold 458 for 991.1 GT3 - fell in love with PDK (always drove manuals)
Car landed months later, he passed, kept his 991.1, next phone call was to guy on my list.
He agreed to buy car (MSRP)
As an FYI
Cartoon photos of car populate automatically to my website regardless of KF or not. I have a KF Macan coming in PTS Gulf Orange. If you see a PTS macan on my site...don't know what to tell you.
FYI#2
Gary stock is no longer contract web vendor for porsche. We are switching providers later this summer maybe that clears it up. I know you lose a lot of sleep- thank you for the concern.
Standard GT3
Frozen spec car, won as a contest for sales % increase. Up for the year, 300% Up in 911's. Sold at msrp to customer on list, although multiple customers had been offered the car it fell down quite a ways. Most didn't want CR, Steel brakes or PDK. It's a great track car build.
I can't wait to hear how I scored, I'm dying for your approval. What's next- you going to hound me for having too many cars with sapphire blue paint? Oh wait I know- in 2009 I got a speeding ticket. Please don't take me to jail Judge Whale.
Touring GT3:
allocated on top,
was changeable for 6 hrs
Called customer on list, he texted me spec
Meanwhile he sold 458 for 991.1 GT3 - fell in love with PDK (always drove manuals)
Car landed months later, he passed, kept his 991.1, next phone call was to guy on my list.
He agreed to buy car (MSRP)
As an FYI
Cartoon photos of car populate automatically to my website regardless of KF or not. I have a KF Macan coming in PTS Gulf Orange. If you see a PTS macan on my site...don't know what to tell you.
FYI#2
Gary stock is no longer contract web vendor for porsche. We are switching providers later this summer maybe that clears it up. I know you lose a lot of sleep- thank you for the concern.
Standard GT3
Frozen spec car, won as a contest for sales % increase. Up for the year, 300% Up in 911's. Sold at msrp to customer on list, although multiple customers had been offered the car it fell down quite a ways. Most didn't want CR, Steel brakes or PDK. It's a great track car build.
I can't wait to hear how I scored, I'm dying for your approval. What's next- you going to hound me for having too many cars with sapphire blue paint? Oh wait I know- in 2009 I got a speeding ticket. Please don't take me to jail Judge Whale.
Ok…. so let’s see if we can piece this PUZZLE together.
Your website might be broken, and some of your pre-sold inventory could (or could not) be listed for sale. You think that someone named Gary might (or might not) be able to fix it sometime later this summer?
I know of lemonade stands run by 7th graders that are managed better.
Your latest GT3 allocation: with 6 hours left to spare, you were suddenly granted a GT3 allocation out of nowhere by some miracle. You called someone. This person “texted" you a configuration, and ordered a car. Then, instead of trading (or pre-trading) their Ferrari for the new 2018 GT3 he just ordered from you, this person randomly decided to go buy a 2015 GT3 for some reason. Then, he fell deeply in love with the used 2015 GT3 and was so enamored with the PDK that he decided he absolutely did not want the new 2018 Touring he just ordered from you.
<<mind blown>>
I’ve made a sincere effort to make sense of this, but I keep feeling like I’m banging square pegs into round holes. This is the most far-fetched story I’ve ever heard.
Last edited by ChicagoWhale; 04-26-2018 at 02:17 PM.
04-26-2018, 01:56 PM
#154
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Two things to clarify here…
One, your GT3’s were in LF status until they were punched. Even if you use the excuse that your website is BROKEN and your pre-sold cars upload automatically, you never had the GT3’s in KF until they were RDR’d. If you were sourcing your allocations from your v070 order demands, your allocations would have been in KF status.
Two, there is never a 6-hour deadline. Never. When an allocation hits the freeze date, it then enters v210 status and are still changeable. Unless you’ve requested PTS, you always have a grace period when the freeze date hits. I’ve seen cars changed two weeks into v210 status. To tell a client he has only 6 hours is pure nonsense and puts unnecessary pressure on a $200k purchase.
I’ll end with this: you inadvertently verified my central claim against you: you are not distributing your GT3 allocations from your v070 order demands. If you were, you wouldn’t have handled your allocation like you explained. You would simply convert your next v070 order into the open allocation you had. For a YEAR, you made a really, really big deal about transparency and how you were seemingly the only dealer doing things by the book. From the GT3 ordering fiasco you described, it’s anything but straightforward, and gives the appearance that none of your v070 order demands actually have a chance.
One, your GT3’s were in LF status until they were punched. Even if you use the excuse that your website is BROKEN and your pre-sold cars upload automatically, you never had the GT3’s in KF until they were RDR’d. If you were sourcing your allocations from your v070 order demands, your allocations would have been in KF status.
Two, there is never a 6-hour deadline. Never. When an allocation hits the freeze date, it then enters v210 status and are still changeable. Unless you’ve requested PTS, you always have a grace period when the freeze date hits. I’ve seen cars changed two weeks into v210 status. To tell a client he has only 6 hours is pure nonsense and puts unnecessary pressure on a $200k purchase.
I’ll end with this: you inadvertently verified my central claim against you: you are not distributing your GT3 allocations from your v070 order demands. If you were, you wouldn’t have handled your allocation like you explained. You would simply convert your next v070 order into the open allocation you had. For a YEAR, you made a really, really big deal about transparency and how you were seemingly the only dealer doing things by the book. From the GT3 ordering fiasco you described, it’s anything but straightforward, and gives the appearance that none of your v070 order demands actually have a chance.
04-26-2018, 02:26 PM
#155
Rennlist Member
Dude,
Did you miss post #135 by our moderator bigs?
You clearly have an agenda to smear CJ. We in the forums are not interested in your vendetta against him. You are adding nothing to the discussion.
He already gave you a fair warning, do you really want to get banned?
Take your issues with him offline.
Did you miss post #135 by our moderator bigs?
You clearly have an agenda to smear CJ. We in the forums are not interested in your vendetta against him. You are adding nothing to the discussion.
He already gave you a fair warning, do you really want to get banned?
Take your issues with him offline.
Two things to clarify here…
One, your GT3’s were in LF status until they were punched. Even if you use the excuse that your website is BROKEN and your pre-sold cars upload automatically, you never had the GT3’s in KF until they were RDR’d. If you were sourcing your allocations from your v070 order demands, your allocations would have been in KF status.
Two, there is never a 6-hour deadline. Never. When an allocation hits the freeze date, it then enters v210 status and are still changeable. Unless you’ve requested PTS, you always have a grace period when the freeze date hits. I’ve seen cars changed two weeks into v210 status. To tell a client he has only 6 hours is pure nonsense and puts unnecessary pressure on a $200k purchase.
I’ll end with this: you inadvertently verified my central claim against you: you are not distributing your GT3 allocations from your v070 order demands. If you were, you wouldn’t have handled your allocation like you explained. You would simply convert your next v070 order into the open allocation you had. For a YEAR, you made a really, really big deal about transparency and how you were seemingly the only dealer doing things by the book. From the GT3 ordering fiasco you described, it’s anything but straightforward, and gives the appearance that none of your v070 order demands actually have a chance.
One, your GT3’s were in LF status until they were punched. Even if you use the excuse that your website is BROKEN and your pre-sold cars upload automatically, you never had the GT3’s in KF until they were RDR’d. If you were sourcing your allocations from your v070 order demands, your allocations would have been in KF status.
Two, there is never a 6-hour deadline. Never. When an allocation hits the freeze date, it then enters v210 status and are still changeable. Unless you’ve requested PTS, you always have a grace period when the freeze date hits. I’ve seen cars changed two weeks into v210 status. To tell a client he has only 6 hours is pure nonsense and puts unnecessary pressure on a $200k purchase.
I’ll end with this: you inadvertently verified my central claim against you: you are not distributing your GT3 allocations from your v070 order demands. If you were, you wouldn’t have handled your allocation like you explained. You would simply convert your next v070 order into the open allocation you had. For a YEAR, you made a really, really big deal about transparency and how you were seemingly the only dealer doing things by the book. From the GT3 ordering fiasco you described, it’s anything but straightforward, and gives the appearance that none of your v070 order demands actually have a chance.
04-26-2018, 02:37 PM
#156
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I think it's educational and informative.
If everyone took CJ at his word (which, in this echo chamber, it seems they often do) everyone would think they actually have an hourly countdown until it's too late to make changes. That's nonsense. You should cite CJ for spreading false information.
I've provided a lot of factual information about v070 order demands and how dealers convert those order demands into real v200 allocations. No one here knew how it works.
If everyone took CJ at his word (which, in this echo chamber, it seems they often do) everyone would think they actually have an hourly countdown until it's too late to make changes. That's nonsense. You should cite CJ for spreading false information.
I've provided a lot of factual information about v070 order demands and how dealers convert those order demands into real v200 allocations. No one here knew how it works.
04-26-2018, 02:41 PM
#157
Dude,
Did you miss post #135 by our moderator bigs?
You clearly have an agenda to smear CJ. We in the forums are not interested in your vendetta against him. You are adding nothing to the discussion.
He already gave you a fair warning, do you really want to get banned?
Take your issues with him offline.
Did you miss post #135 by our moderator bigs?
You clearly have an agenda to smear CJ. We in the forums are not interested in your vendetta against him. You are adding nothing to the discussion.
He already gave you a fair warning, do you really want to get banned?
Take your issues with him offline.
04-26-2018, 02:49 PM
#158
Platinum Dealership
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Sea hear boy wonder
You skip so many words in the story you make up your own...
The delay in the awarded GT3 open allocation and the lock date was in fact 6 hours or so as it was an on top allocation for performance challenges that we won. Call my area rep. The car was specced in summer/ fall 17 and locked right away. The car took a long time (8+ months) and since it was a touring and we are in a CARB state it was delayed. Just like every other Touring GT3 in CA.
Customer sold his 458 in summer and immediately bought the 991.1 off of us, in Agate Gray, LWB, PCCB. I believe we bought that from an East Coast Rennlister. Local customer decided to keep his 991.1 and drive it daily since money does not go on trees and he would not want to pay taxes on two GT3's in 8 months. No tax credit trades in Fresno or California.
Later (2018) was awarded a GT3 that was a port / pool car. The spec was frozen. You're the insider and know Porsche has 5-10% of a national allocation as a pool car for performing dealers.
Gary Stock was de facto nationwide dealer website provider. It's a company. Like *** Automotive which you are probably more aware of... Gary Stock has lost exclusive rights to the porsche contract and now we can choose dealerfire, Dealer.com etc.
Again your antics are wasting time, taking threads off topic and attempts to assail the transparency of my business and my character continue to draw attention to your classless agenda. For such a smart (self assessed) Porsche Expert your people skills come across as an arthritic plumber.
I know this is a crazy concept but I personally call people on a descending list and if they don't like the spec I keep calling the next guy until they stop. We have a "big board" with all the names and the list has been frozen since March 2017.
You skip so many words in the story you make up your own...
The delay in the awarded GT3 open allocation and the lock date was in fact 6 hours or so as it was an on top allocation for performance challenges that we won. Call my area rep. The car was specced in summer/ fall 17 and locked right away. The car took a long time (8+ months) and since it was a touring and we are in a CARB state it was delayed. Just like every other Touring GT3 in CA.
Customer sold his 458 in summer and immediately bought the 991.1 off of us, in Agate Gray, LWB, PCCB. I believe we bought that from an East Coast Rennlister. Local customer decided to keep his 991.1 and drive it daily since money does not go on trees and he would not want to pay taxes on two GT3's in 8 months. No tax credit trades in Fresno or California.
Later (2018) was awarded a GT3 that was a port / pool car. The spec was frozen. You're the insider and know Porsche has 5-10% of a national allocation as a pool car for performing dealers.
Gary Stock was de facto nationwide dealer website provider. It's a company. Like *** Automotive which you are probably more aware of... Gary Stock has lost exclusive rights to the porsche contract and now we can choose dealerfire, Dealer.com etc.
Again your antics are wasting time, taking threads off topic and attempts to assail the transparency of my business and my character continue to draw attention to your classless agenda. For such a smart (self assessed) Porsche Expert your people skills come across as an arthritic plumber.
I know this is a crazy concept but I personally call people on a descending list and if they don't like the spec I keep calling the next guy until they stop. We have a "big board" with all the names and the list has been frozen since March 2017.
04-26-2018, 02:55 PM
#159
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To the Rennlist community,
There is never - NEVER - a six hour deadline. Cars are completely changeable even if they hit v210 status.
Sincerely,
The Echo Chamber Police
There is never - NEVER - a six hour deadline. Cars are completely changeable even if they hit v210 status.
Sincerely,
The Echo Chamber Police
04-26-2018, 03:11 PM
#160
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Originally Posted by WenigerAberBeser
What part of CW's post was not civil? Or, is anything that doesn't align to your guys' groupthink and hypocrisy considered not civil? Instead of just trying to shut down CW, why not wait and allow CJ to respond? That's civil discourse.
Spec locked according to PVMS Electronic Handling Board the next day. Didn't want to take a chance of having a "stock spec" lock since I was/am still a new guy on the system.
04-26-2018, 03:14 PM
#161
Banned
In civil discourse you know both parties, facts about them and understand professional background to be able to access for yourself the truth. The problem here is you have one person we know all about and another that STILL hasn't told us his name, affiliation, knowledge base etc etc so to me he doesn't follow the definition above at all and just has an ax to grind.
04-26-2018, 03:18 PM
#162
Here you go from the internet -Kenneth J. Gergen describes civil discourse as "the language of dispassionate objectivity", and suggests that it requires respect of the other participants, such as the reader. It neither diminishes the other's moral worth, nor questions their good judgment; it avoids hostility, direct antagonism, or excessive persuasion; it requires modesty and an appreciation for the other participant's experiences.
In civil discourse you know both parties, facts about them and understand professional background to be able to access for yourself the truth. The problem here is you have one person we know all about and another that STILL hasn't told us his name, affiliation, knowledge base etc etc so to me he doesn't follow the definition above at all and just has an ax to grind.
In civil discourse you know both parties, facts about them and understand professional background to be able to access for yourself the truth. The problem here is you have one person we know all about and another that STILL hasn't told us his name, affiliation, knowledge base etc etc so to me he doesn't follow the definition above at all and just has an ax to grind.
04-26-2018, 03:29 PM
#164
Banned
You have a guy on here grinding his ax hiding behind a screen name making claims and thinking he knows all while another is known and continues to defend every accusation. Way different than typical forum posts etc. 
04-26-2018, 03:40 PM
#165
So.... What’s the lowest RS ADM out there?