991 .2 GT3 RS goes 6:56.4
04-20-2018, 02:13 PM
#46
Intermediate
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As someone who studies this stuff, in my opinion one of the reasons for such a difference in times lately is the level of aggressive driving. Tire compound is improving a lot and the track layout is quicker too but I am noticing an increase in "attacking the track" that has not previously been displayed. The drivers are going all out, theres a few mistakes in the video but the amount of push to the limit is really impressive.
04-20-2018, 02:33 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
Just for clarification. 2017 and newer Z06 no longer overheat on track use, Chevy made plenty of changes in 2017 (for the auto and the manual trans cars), the 2017+ auto still overheats but takes a hot track day to get there, but the manual is fine. Sport Auto tested the 2017 at the Ring (the 7:1x lap time with Gebhardt driving), on good hands the 2017+ Z06 can run under 7:10s, and who knows how much faster it could be on the Cup2R tires that Porsche is giving the two new RS.
Also, there are 5 different tuning for the Magnetic suspension in the C7Z06, the 2016 has different programming than the 2015 (and is faster too), then 2017 got the improvements that were released with the GrandSport, 2018 has new tunes for GS and Z06, and now 2019 has the 2018 suspension tune with temperature compensation (for consistency and improved performance).
The leaf spring suspension is not ideal for the bumpy Nurburgring, but give the C7 a smooth track, and it has no problems chasing Porsche GT cars. My biggest gripe with my Z06, is that without an ECU tune, it doesn't deploy the 650hp until 3rd gear, so at speeds of 93mph or below on a track day (2nd gear goes 93mph), you have a car with less than 600hp with supercharger lag, and a weight penalty. Chevy applied this logic to the new ZR1, but the 755hp are not available until 4th gear.
The C7 GrandSport is the bargain track day car that can chase Porsche GT cars all day long, and just intake, exhaust, tune get the car in the 550hp range, on low fuel is 3,360 lbs. On equal tires as a GT3 RS, my vote goes to the GrandSport, fun, affordable, dependable, and very cheap consumables.
Also, there are 5 different tuning for the Magnetic suspension in the C7Z06, the 2016 has different programming than the 2015 (and is faster too), then 2017 got the improvements that were released with the GrandSport, 2018 has new tunes for GS and Z06, and now 2019 has the 2018 suspension tune with temperature compensation (for consistency and improved performance).
The leaf spring suspension is not ideal for the bumpy Nurburgring, but give the C7 a smooth track, and it has no problems chasing Porsche GT cars. My biggest gripe with my Z06, is that without an ECU tune, it doesn't deploy the 650hp until 3rd gear, so at speeds of 93mph or below on a track day (2nd gear goes 93mph), you have a car with less than 600hp with supercharger lag, and a weight penalty. Chevy applied this logic to the new ZR1, but the 755hp are not available until 4th gear.
The C7 GrandSport is the bargain track day car that can chase Porsche GT cars all day long, and just intake, exhaust, tune get the car in the 550hp range, on low fuel is 3,360 lbs. On equal tires as a GT3 RS, my vote goes to the GrandSport, fun, affordable, dependable, and very cheap consumables.
04-20-2018, 02:34 PM
#48
Instructor
Just for clarification. 2017 and newer Z06 no longer overheat on track use, Chevy made plenty of changes in 2017 (for the auto and the manual trans cars), the 2017+ auto still overheats but takes a hot track day to get there, but the manual is fine. Sport Auto tested the 2017 at the Ring (the 7:1x lap time with Gebhardt driving), on good hands the 2017+ Z06 can run under 7:10s, and who knows how much faster it could be on the Cup2R tires that Porsche is giving the two new RS.
Also, there are 5 different tuning for the Magnetic suspension in the C7Z06, the 2016 has different programming than the 2015 (and is faster too), then 2017 got the improvements that were released with the GrandSport, 2018 has new tunes for GS and Z06, and now 2019 has the 2018 suspension tune with temperature compensation (for consistency and improved performance).
The leaf spring suspension is not ideal for the bumpy Nurburgring, but give the C7 a smooth track, and it has no problems chasing Porsche GT cars. My biggest gripe with my Z06, is that without an ECU tune, it doesn't deploy the 650hp until 3rd gear, so at speeds of 93mph or below on a track day (2nd gear goes 93mph), you have a car with less than 600hp with supercharger lag, and a weight penalty. Chevy applied this logic to the new ZR1, but the 755hp are not available until 4th gear.
The C7 GrandSport is the bargain track day car that can chase Porsche GT cars all day long, and just intake, exhaust, tune get the car in the 550hp range, on low fuel is 3,360 lbs. On equal tires as a GT3 RS, my vote goes to the GrandSport, fun, affordable, dependable, and very cheap consumables.
Also, there are 5 different tuning for the Magnetic suspension in the C7Z06, the 2016 has different programming than the 2015 (and is faster too), then 2017 got the improvements that were released with the GrandSport, 2018 has new tunes for GS and Z06, and now 2019 has the 2018 suspension tune with temperature compensation (for consistency and improved performance).
The leaf spring suspension is not ideal for the bumpy Nurburgring, but give the C7 a smooth track, and it has no problems chasing Porsche GT cars. My biggest gripe with my Z06, is that without an ECU tune, it doesn't deploy the 650hp until 3rd gear, so at speeds of 93mph or below on a track day (2nd gear goes 93mph), you have a car with less than 600hp with supercharger lag, and a weight penalty. Chevy applied this logic to the new ZR1, but the 755hp are not available until 4th gear.
The C7 GrandSport is the bargain track day car that can chase Porsche GT cars all day long, and just intake, exhaust, tune get the car in the 550hp range, on low fuel is 3,360 lbs. On equal tires as a GT3 RS, my vote goes to the GrandSport, fun, affordable, dependable, and very cheap consumables.
As an owner of the C7 Z06 who drives his car hard, your statements are full of holes.
First off, this thread needs to be a celebration of what Porsche has accomplished about the .2RS. Tremendous engineering effort and driving from all members. Kudos to their hardwork. This is not the place to discuss the virtues (or lack thereof) the C7 Z06/Z07.
Now that you've opened up this can, let's play -
With respect to the 'Suspension Tune', you must be 'trying' to refer to the Magnetic Ride Calibration (MRC) update. This is available for all MY starting with the 2015 year. It is not exclusive to the 2019 models. The MRC update is available to all C7 models regardless of Stingray, GS or Z06. Each MRC update has a specific part number that is unique to each C7 trim. I have a 2016 Z06 and had this update installed a few weeks ago. The difference in Touring/Sport/Track is substantial on the street/track. This MRC update alone enabled the 'poor mans' Z06 to lap VIR in just 2 seconds shy of the much more expensive and Aero intense ZR1.
There are 5 different 'performance modes' for the Z06 - Eco/Weather/Touring/Sport/Track. There are just 3 'performance modes' for the ZR1 - Touring/Sport/Track. This because the ZR1's LT5 motor forgoes Active Fuel Management (which shuts off cylinders) when cruising.
There are no programming/power differences for the Z06 till date. The only differences have been the installation of the secondary radiator for the M7 cars starting in the 2016 model year. The power output from the LT4 motor remains the same despite a change to the Supercharger cover in 2017.
Track use - My friend who lives in Houston has put thousands of 'track miles' in 1.5 years. His M7 Z06 has never 'overheated'. This is him driving hard on tracks in Texas and California.
That being said, there are a number of cases where the Z06 has 'overheated' with lawsuits to boot. The Z06 does not have enough frontal area and dual intercoolers that the ZR1 now has for cooling. The car was engineered and tested to perform at ambient temps of 85' and below. The various cases of Z06's that overheated were mostly cars that were driven in 'Full Auto mode' without manual engagement of shifts (despite GM repeatedly stating to do so). The torque converter Auto generates a lot of thermal energy compared to other setups.
There are substantially more cases of Z06 owners that have driven their cars hard with no overheating issues. Link to thread / documentation: C7 Z06 Track Day Experience from users
The 'leaf spring' car you are referring to has no bearing on whether the road surface is smooth or bumpy. It boils down to the dampers/springs with regard to how the car performs. In addtion, the 'leaf spring' setup is also why Vettes are hailed as being remarkably reliable from a suspension/load standpoint. Ask anyone who runs Spec Corvette.
Now, who the hell told you that 650HP cannot be deployed without a tune? Are you crazy? The 3rd and 4th gear references are with regard to linear responses of the throttle where power via throttle is executed differently in similar circumstances between the Z06 and ZR1. Corners/Instances where the Z06 takes in 3rd gear is executed in 4th gear in the ZR1. This is because the ZR1 has +100HP/TQ than the Z06.
The Stingray has a power to weight ratio of 7.29 lb/hp (Curb Weight of 3,344 lbs / 460 HP)
The GS has a power to weight ratio of 7.48 lb/hp (Curb Weight of 3,444 lbs / 460 HP)
The Z06 has a power to weight ratio of 5.38 lb/hp (Curb Weight of 3,524 lbs / 650 HP)
The ZR1 has a power to weight ratio of 4.71 lb/hp (Curb Weight of 3,560 lbs / 755 HP)
There is no way you can get 550hp with (Intake/Exhaust/Tune) on the LT1 motor unless you decide to build it for a lot of money. The Grandsport is a Vette that weighs 100 lbs more (and feels it) than the similarly powered Stingray Z51. It's essentially a Stingray with a bodykit with Z06 tires + Body.
I've driven the GS and would never trade the Z06 for one. The LT4 in the Z06 has forged internals with a very strong bottom end that can handle up to 1400 hp. Just ask Lingenfelter.
Point being, you cannot go wrong with any variation of the C7. All great cars in their own right.
Now, let's get back to the original scheduled programming of praising the RS. Kudos to the team!
Last edited by Checkmate; 04-20-2018 at 03:10 PM.
04-20-2018, 03:15 PM
#49
Race Director
04-20-2018, 03:23 PM
#50
Race Director
So this time beat the 918? That means the 918, on comparable tires must be in the 6:40’s now? Because i don’t think anyone believes the 918 is slower than the .2 GT3 RS. Still a great time, but i don’t know how great given track and tire changes.
04-20-2018, 03:31 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
The Camaro hits all the right buttons, it can give a 991 GT3/GT3RS an equal run on a track day with most drivers out there. Just dump the expensive GY, put some 18" wheels and run real track tires (Hoosiers or slicks), the car will pick up a massive performance.
04-20-2018, 03:33 PM
#53
Race Director
Some details...
The tire used on the 918 was the "N0" spec Pilot Sport Cup 2, and Porsche worked with Michelin to develop two further variants—the N1 for the 991.1 GT3 RS, and the N2 for the GT2 RS. Each tire gets its own compound and construction "to extract the maximum performance out of the car," according to Preuninger.
Essentially, the GT2 RS generates more mechanical grip than the 918 Spyder and 991.1 GT3 RS, despite the fact that all have Pilot Spot Cup 2s of the exact same size. That makes a huge difference on track.
The tire used on the 918 was the "N0" spec Pilot Sport Cup 2, and Porsche worked with Michelin to develop two further variants—the N1 for the 991.1 GT3 RS, and the N2 for the GT2 RS. Each tire gets its own compound and construction "to extract the maximum performance out of the car," according to Preuninger.
Essentially, the GT2 RS generates more mechanical grip than the 918 Spyder and 991.1 GT3 RS, despite the fact that all have Pilot Spot Cup 2s of the exact same size. That makes a huge difference on track.
04-20-2018, 03:52 PM
#56
Burning Brakes
However, the .2 GT3 RS gains of 24 secs over the .1 shows that these new MPSC2-R are plenty faster. It would not surprise me that 6 to 8 secs from the 991.2 GT3 RS Nurburgring lap time belong to the MPSC2-R tires alone.
There are big gains on track performance with the new RS, a few monoballs in the back, the spring rates moved up drastically compared to every RS and GT3 since 1999, downforce was increase 222 lbs at 300 kp/h, the nice mid-range bump over the anemic response my 991.1RS has at anything under 5,500rpm.
On a regular size track, and equal tires, it truly gets down to who is the better driver, regardless of 991.1 or 991.2 GT3 or RS.
918 Spyder on this MPSC2-R tires would be an animal, but truly when was the last time a 918 Spyder was at a track day with a decent driver at the wheels? Most of them are sitting garage ornaments awaiting their battery packs to expire.
04-20-2018, 04:03 PM
#57
Race Director
A nice proof of this new MPSC2-R tire extra grip is already available, by comparing the 991.1 GT3 vs. 991.2 GT3 lap times. The 991.1 GT3 was on N0-spec tires, the 991.2 gained the 4.0 vs. 3.8, downforce, etc. and the newer MPSC-2 (not the R version, but N2), yet it lapped 12 secs faster than the .1.
However, the .2 GT3 RS gains of 24 secs over the .1 shows that these new MPSC2-R are plenty faster. It would not surprise me that 6 to 8 secs from the 991.2 GT3 RS Nurburgring lap time belong to the MPSC2-R tires alone.
There are big gains on track performance with the new RS, a few monoballs in the back, the spring rates moved up drastically compared to every RS and GT3 since 1999, downforce was increase 222 lbs at 300 kp/h, the nice mid-range bump over the anemic response my 991.1RS has at anything under 5,500rpm.
On a regular size track, and equal tires, it truly gets down to who is the better driver, regardless of 991.1 or 991.2 GT3 or RS.
918 Spyder on this MPSC2-R tires would be an animal, but truly when was the last time a 918 Spyder was at a track day with a decent driver at the wheels? Most of them are sitting garage ornaments awaiting their battery packs to expire.
However, the .2 GT3 RS gains of 24 secs over the .1 shows that these new MPSC2-R are plenty faster. It would not surprise me that 6 to 8 secs from the 991.2 GT3 RS Nurburgring lap time belong to the MPSC2-R tires alone.
There are big gains on track performance with the new RS, a few monoballs in the back, the spring rates moved up drastically compared to every RS and GT3 since 1999, downforce was increase 222 lbs at 300 kp/h, the nice mid-range bump over the anemic response my 991.1RS has at anything under 5,500rpm.
On a regular size track, and equal tires, it truly gets down to who is the better driver, regardless of 991.1 or 991.2 GT3 or RS.
918 Spyder on this MPSC2-R tires would be an animal, but truly when was the last time a 918 Spyder was at a track day with a decent driver at the wheels? Most of them are sitting garage ornaments awaiting their battery packs to expire.
04-20-2018, 04:05 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Just for clarification. 2017 and newer Z06 no longer overheat on track use, Chevy made plenty of changes in 2017 (for the auto and the manual trans cars), the 2017+ auto still overheats but takes a hot track day to get there, but the manual is fine. Sport Auto tested the 2017 at the Ring (the 7:1x lap time with Gebhardt driving), on good hands the 2017+ Z06 can run under 7:10s, and who knows how much faster it could be on the Cup2R tires that Porsche is giving the two new RS.
Also, there are 5 different tuning for the Magnetic suspension in the C7Z06, the 2016 has different programming than the 2015 (and is faster too), then 2017 got the improvements that were released with the GrandSport, 2018 has new tunes for GS and Z06, and now 2019 has the 2018 suspension tune with temperature compensation (for consistency and improved performance).
The leaf spring suspension is not ideal for the bumpy Nurburgring, but give the C7 a smooth track, and it has no problems chasing Porsche GT cars. My biggest gripe with my Z06, is that without an ECU tune, it doesn't deploy the 650hp until 3rd gear, so at speeds of 93mph or below on a track day (2nd gear goes 93mph), you have a car with less than 600hp with supercharger lag, and a weight penalty. Chevy applied this logic to the new ZR1, but the 755hp are not available until 4th gear.
The C7 GrandSport is the bargain track day car that can chase Porsche GT cars all day long, and just intake, exhaust, tune get the car in the 550hp range, on low fuel is 3,360 lbs. On equal tires as a GT3 RS, my vote goes to the GrandSport, fun, affordable, dependable, and very cheap consumables.
Also, there are 5 different tuning for the Magnetic suspension in the C7Z06, the 2016 has different programming than the 2015 (and is faster too), then 2017 got the improvements that were released with the GrandSport, 2018 has new tunes for GS and Z06, and now 2019 has the 2018 suspension tune with temperature compensation (for consistency and improved performance).
The leaf spring suspension is not ideal for the bumpy Nurburgring, but give the C7 a smooth track, and it has no problems chasing Porsche GT cars. My biggest gripe with my Z06, is that without an ECU tune, it doesn't deploy the 650hp until 3rd gear, so at speeds of 93mph or below on a track day (2nd gear goes 93mph), you have a car with less than 600hp with supercharger lag, and a weight penalty. Chevy applied this logic to the new ZR1, but the 755hp are not available until 4th gear.
The C7 GrandSport is the bargain track day car that can chase Porsche GT cars all day long, and just intake, exhaust, tune get the car in the 550hp range, on low fuel is 3,360 lbs. On equal tires as a GT3 RS, my vote goes to the GrandSport, fun, affordable, dependable, and very cheap consumables.
2017’s are overheating... GM has been issued 4th Lawsuit over this
http://driving.ca/chevrolet/corvette...ting-corvettes
04-20-2018, 04:27 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
I have been trying to order .2 GT3 cup 2’s for my .1 GT3 but can’t find them. Tirerack didn’t show them last time i looked. Yeah, very few people really drive any of these cars. For the most part, i don’t really either. I maybe push it 5/10th’s on the street. A couple of mild track days per year do little but stretch the legs.
Tried through my Porsche dealer, thinking they would able to get replacements for delivered .2 cars and they couldn’t get them.
04-20-2018, 04:41 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
As someone who studies this stuff, in my opinion one of the reasons for such a difference in times lately is the level of aggressive driving. Tire compound is improving a lot and the track layout is quicker too but I am noticing an increase in "attacking the track" that has not previously been displayed. The drivers are going all out, theres a few mistakes in the video but the amount of push to the limit is really impressive.