991 .2 GT3 RS goes 6:56.4
04-24-2018, 02:20 PM
#136
04-24-2018, 03:19 PM
#137
Burning Brakes
Well, 2 secs on an 86 secs track lap, Cup2-N2 vs Cup2-R is a lot. This is the difference I see between my street legal track tires, and hard slicks or Hoosier R7 on my cars on similar size laps.
That's 9-10 secs at the Nurburgring comparing N2 to R, so the folks that were guessing a 7:05 lap on the new 991.2 GT3 RS were on the money. Andreas Preuninger is already on record with the 7:20 lap in the 991.1 GT3 RS mentioning that conditions were not ideal and he wasn't satisfied with that lap, and that was done on the N1 tires, slower than the N2 tires. On equal rubber (why would anyone with a 991.1 GT3 RS purchase slow tires for track days when they will be able to buy the R for a similar price), the 991.1 and 991.2 GT3 RS are going to be around 10 secs apart at the Ring, it is still a big gap but not the 24 secs.
...and the AMG-GTR may be a little stiff for the Ring, but a more normal racetrack and lesser tires, it is not struggling to keep up with the 991 GT2RS, and it won't struggle with the GT3RS either. I think I found my Z06 replacement.
That's 9-10 secs at the Nurburgring comparing N2 to R, so the folks that were guessing a 7:05 lap on the new 991.2 GT3 RS were on the money. Andreas Preuninger is already on record with the 7:20 lap in the 991.1 GT3 RS mentioning that conditions were not ideal and he wasn't satisfied with that lap, and that was done on the N1 tires, slower than the N2 tires. On equal rubber (why would anyone with a 991.1 GT3 RS purchase slow tires for track days when they will be able to buy the R for a similar price), the 991.1 and 991.2 GT3 RS are going to be around 10 secs apart at the Ring, it is still a big gap but not the 24 secs.
...and the AMG-GTR may be a little stiff for the Ring, but a more normal racetrack and lesser tires, it is not struggling to keep up with the 991 GT2RS, and it won't struggle with the GT3RS either. I think I found my Z06 replacement.
04-24-2018, 03:29 PM
#138
Rennlist Member
^ I'd be (very) surprised if the Cup R was the same price as the N2. In fact I'd expect quite a premium. And unless you track frequently many would choose a cheaper and longer lasting tire. Agree about the impacts on times.
04-24-2018, 03:36 PM
#139
The Cup R are about 2x the price of Cup2. Not sure about longevity, but should not be much worse.
04-24-2018, 04:50 PM
#140
Two seconds on a short track is quite a bit if all that is changed is the compound (same width, tread pattern, MPSC2 architecture, etc.) Will be interested to read more details as they come available, but if only the compound has changed, you're likely giving up something else. I've seen manufactures play with sidewall stiffness for the ragged-edge track cars as well, so if i'm curious if that's been tweaked at all and if so, how it will impact ride quality (hah!).
04-24-2018, 06:04 PM
#141
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,260
Received 1,224 Likes
on
603 Posts
But GT-Rs time is on the special "corvette" tires. I would not call them "lesser" - they are like hoosiers with some faint imitation of tread and last only about 1 day (or under 1 hour of driving time) if driven by an advanced driver. If the new Cup 2 Rs are like that, I do not see them being popular.
04-24-2018, 08:55 PM
#142
Drifting
04-24-2018, 09:39 PM
#143
Well, 2 secs on an 86 secs track lap, Cup2-N2 vs Cup2-R is a lot. This is the difference I see between my street legal track tires, and hard slicks or Hoosier R7 on my cars on similar size laps.
That's 9-10 secs at the Nurburgring comparing N2 to R, so the folks that were guessing a 7:05 lap on the new 991.2 GT3 RS were on the money. Andreas Preuninger is already on record with the 7:20 lap in the 991.1 GT3 RS mentioning that conditions were not ideal and he wasn't satisfied with that lap, and that was done on the N1 tires, slower than the N2 tires. On equal rubber (why would anyone with a 991.1 GT3 RS purchase slow tires for track days when they will be able to buy the R for a similar price), the 991.1 and 991.2 GT3 RS are going to be around 10 secs apart at the Ring, it is still a big gap but not the 24 secs.
...and the AMG-GTR may be a little stiff for the Ring, but a more normal racetrack and lesser tires, it is not struggling to keep up with the 991 GT2RS, and it won't struggle with the GT3RS either. I think I found my Z06 replacement.
That's 9-10 secs at the Nurburgring comparing N2 to R, so the folks that were guessing a 7:05 lap on the new 991.2 GT3 RS were on the money. Andreas Preuninger is already on record with the 7:20 lap in the 991.1 GT3 RS mentioning that conditions were not ideal and he wasn't satisfied with that lap, and that was done on the N1 tires, slower than the N2 tires. On equal rubber (why would anyone with a 991.1 GT3 RS purchase slow tires for track days when they will be able to buy the R for a similar price), the 991.1 and 991.2 GT3 RS are going to be around 10 secs apart at the Ring, it is still a big gap but not the 24 secs.
...and the AMG-GTR may be a little stiff for the Ring, but a more normal racetrack and lesser tires, it is not struggling to keep up with the 991 GT2RS, and it won't struggle with the GT3RS either. I think I found my Z06 replacement.
04-25-2018, 06:38 AM
#146
If you put Cup R's on the 991.2GT3 would it lap the Nurburgring in 7 02..The weights and engine are pretty much identical so 6 seconds gained by geo/downforce etc..
04-25-2018, 09:43 AM
#147
Rennlist Member
If Cup-R's are twice the price of Cup-2's.......then all the usual complaints about Trofeo-R's should go out the window then. You could've had Cup-R performance for the past 2 years at a bargain price.
Anybody who thinks the Cup-R is going to last as long as a Cup-2 is just plain fooling themselves.
Anybody who thinks the Cup-R is going to last as long as a Cup-2 is just plain fooling themselves.
04-25-2018, 11:47 AM
#148
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,065
Received 4,378 Likes
on
2,491 Posts
As long as the driver is a true pro who's familiar with the track, I don't think the driver makes much difference -- they all get pretty much everything out of the car.
Tires certainly make a big difference. If we're going to compare the various cars, they need equal tires (but that may require some change in setup of some cars, which complicates things). If these tires are crazy expensive, that could be a dealbreaker for people who want to track the car regularly (why else would you buy it?).
If the track was resurfaced, that can also matter a lot.
In any case, this car was clearly bonkers fast under the test conditions.
Tires certainly make a big difference. If we're going to compare the various cars, they need equal tires (but that may require some change in setup of some cars, which complicates things). If these tires are crazy expensive, that could be a dealbreaker for people who want to track the car regularly (why else would you buy it?).
If the track was resurfaced, that can also matter a lot.
In any case, this car was clearly bonkers fast under the test conditions.
04-25-2018, 12:16 PM
#149
But GT-Rs time is on the special "corvette" tires. I would not call them "lesser" - they are like hoosiers with some faint imitation of tread and last only about 1 day (or under 1 hour of driving time) if driven by an advanced driver. If the new Cup 2 Rs are like that, I do not see them being popular.
I run in the Advanced run groups and aren’t what you’d call slow. The MPSC2 ZP tyres on my ‘15 Z06/7 would last me a good two HPDE weekends from new, but I made sure I had a great alignment and started them at around 25 psi cold.
Pretty sure this new ‘R’ tyre will be substantially faster.
Bish
04-25-2018, 01:54 PM
#150
Burning Brakes
991.2 GT3 on Hoosier R7 would lap under 7 minutes. Why anyone would over pay for MPSC2-R when Hoosier R7 made here (supporting American craftmanship, labor and products) are way faster.
I have gone through 3 sets of the MPSC2-ZP in my Z07 equipped C7Z06, now the car is on the equal compound but different tread MPSS-ZP. This same car on Hoosier is vastly faster, 0.2-0.3g increase on later grip. Even on the RE71R, my Vette had better g-forces than the MPSC2-ZP, and RE71R do not delaminate like MPSC2-ZP.
On equal tires, and normal size racetracks, 991.1 or 991.2 GT3 or RS, it is more the driver that would determine the best laps. An average advanced driver in a 991.2 GT3 RS can't stand a chance against a pro driver in a 991.1 GT3 on same compound tires.
I track on real track rubber, street tires are for that: street driving.
I have gone through 3 sets of the MPSC2-ZP in my Z07 equipped C7Z06, now the car is on the equal compound but different tread MPSS-ZP. This same car on Hoosier is vastly faster, 0.2-0.3g increase on later grip. Even on the RE71R, my Vette had better g-forces than the MPSC2-ZP, and RE71R do not delaminate like MPSC2-ZP.
On equal tires, and normal size racetracks, 991.1 or 991.2 GT3 or RS, it is more the driver that would determine the best laps. An average advanced driver in a 991.2 GT3 RS can't stand a chance against a pro driver in a 991.1 GT3 on same compound tires.
I track on real track rubber, street tires are for that: street driving.