Anybody buy or sell a 911R recently?
03-03-2018, 01:23 PM
#257
03-03-2018, 01:54 PM
#258
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I've been buying cars for 30+ years, and never had a 'dull' one - started with a Mk1 Golf GTi, Mk2 RS2000, 205GTi, Type Rs, Maserati,Fiat, Ferrari, Sti, gullwing Merc (Brabus), Subarus, Porsche (multiple GTs and others), McLaren, Lambo (new and old), 8C, Integrale, 918, Jaguar, R8, multiple Audi RS, Focus RS. don't know how many in total, I'm sure others have lots more.
Out of all of them, values aside, pick one car, and it's the R, without question for me, (as a road car). Not saying a CGT or something wouldn't top it, but you'd also lose a lot of the useability. All round, there's nothing out there I can think of that does it all. (Removable Back seats would be perfect...)
(Drove it 2000 miles then took it apart and repainted it the way I wanted, drove another 4000miles+ so far, and it will never be sold. So, pretty sure I'm not trying to talk up the value...).
Out of all of them, values aside, pick one car, and it's the R, without question for me, (as a road car). Not saying a CGT or something wouldn't top it, but you'd also lose a lot of the useability. All round, there's nothing out there I can think of that does it all. (Removable Back seats would be perfect...)
(Drove it 2000 miles then took it apart and repainted it the way I wanted, drove another 4000miles+ so far, and it will never be sold. So, pretty sure I'm not trying to talk up the value...).
i dont have R but i finally got to drive one.
excellent car, especially those who bought at msrp worth every penny.
i dont have all the cool stuff footsoldier had but i have had quite a number of p cars from long hood to present. many ppl love ring time and read spec. after enough of porsche you will realized the spec is completely useless and ring time is boring too. on paper 997 4.0 and 3.8 are literally same car. they do not drive at all like one another. if 4.0 worth that much more than 3.8, NO... but they are not the same car. on paper GT4 has essentially same number as 996gt3. they have totally different personality and i am not talking about the obvious engine placement either.
03-03-2018, 02:21 PM
#259
Three Wheelin'
To me the 911R is the "Best All Around" car is the 2016 911R. It is not the fastest, not the slowest, not the most expensive, not the cheapest neither, but the Best All Around car in my Porsche collection.
We can talk about any car scientifically, theoretically, conceptually, and artistically. When you buy a car, lot of things come into play. The "Like Factor" involves many attributes. Design, looks, engineering, so forth and so on. One mans food may be a poison to others. I am not here to convince all else to buy nor believe that the 911R is for you nor anyone else. I bought it because I like it and have kept it. I think I share the same sentiments and passion among all other existing "First Owners."
Those who sold probably did for money, or maybe they just did not like it, pure and simple. Never heard any owner both past and present about it being defective or anything really negative about the 911R. Existing owners take pride they own the 911R, simply because they enjoy. Whether they are keeping it for "Value" (very, very subjective as to their definition of value), it is their money and their right to own one.
With regard to monetary value, the original 1967 911R were selling back then for DM (Deutsche Mark) 45,000.00, equivalent to about US$11,250.00 back then. I was curious how much does this 1967 911R cost as there are only 19 (nineteen) sold to the public back in 1967. The seller wanted at least US$2M. Good for them and I hope they sell it at that price because I believe it is an icon and a historical car. Now is the 911R going to rise in monetary value fifty years from now? I hope so, so my next of kin can enjoy the car and if they wish sell it to the new or next "caretaker", and for them to acquire the next "Best PORSCHE." Without a question there are far more better 911s made after the 1967 911R.
Regardless of car brand or model, not one single car is for everybody. Folks, it is not one size fits all. Now let me go back to my garage and enjoy the best all around car, 911R. Just my best $0.02.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
We can talk about any car scientifically, theoretically, conceptually, and artistically. When you buy a car, lot of things come into play. The "Like Factor" involves many attributes. Design, looks, engineering, so forth and so on. One mans food may be a poison to others. I am not here to convince all else to buy nor believe that the 911R is for you nor anyone else. I bought it because I like it and have kept it. I think I share the same sentiments and passion among all other existing "First Owners."
Those who sold probably did for money, or maybe they just did not like it, pure and simple. Never heard any owner both past and present about it being defective or anything really negative about the 911R. Existing owners take pride they own the 911R, simply because they enjoy. Whether they are keeping it for "Value" (very, very subjective as to their definition of value), it is their money and their right to own one.
With regard to monetary value, the original 1967 911R were selling back then for DM (Deutsche Mark) 45,000.00, equivalent to about US$11,250.00 back then. I was curious how much does this 1967 911R cost as there are only 19 (nineteen) sold to the public back in 1967. The seller wanted at least US$2M. Good for them and I hope they sell it at that price because I believe it is an icon and a historical car. Now is the 911R going to rise in monetary value fifty years from now? I hope so, so my next of kin can enjoy the car and if they wish sell it to the new or next "caretaker", and for them to acquire the next "Best PORSCHE." Without a question there are far more better 911s made after the 1967 911R.
Regardless of car brand or model, not one single car is for everybody. Folks, it is not one size fits all. Now let me go back to my garage and enjoy the best all around car, 911R. Just my best $0.02.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
I've been buying cars for 30+ years, and never had a 'dull' one - started with a Mk1 Golf GTi, Mk2 RS2000, 205GTi, Type Rs, Maserati,Fiat, Ferrari, Sti, gullwing Merc (Brabus), Subarus, Porsche (multiple GTs and others), McLaren, Lambo (new and old), 8C, Integrale, 918, Jaguar, R8, multiple Audi RS, Focus RS. don't know how many in total, I'm sure others have lots more.
Out of all of them, values aside, pick one car, and it's the R, without question for me, (as a road car). Not saying a CGT or something wouldn't top it, but you'd also lose a lot of the useability. All round, there's nothing out there I can think of that does it all. (Removable Back seats would be perfect...)
(Drove it 2000 miles then took it apart and repainted it the way I wanted, drove another 4000miles+ so far, and it will never be sold. So, pretty sure I'm not trying to talk up the value...).
Out of all of them, values aside, pick one car, and it's the R, without question for me, (as a road car). Not saying a CGT or something wouldn't top it, but you'd also lose a lot of the useability. All round, there's nothing out there I can think of that does it all. (Removable Back seats would be perfect...)
(Drove it 2000 miles then took it apart and repainted it the way I wanted, drove another 4000miles+ so far, and it will never be sold. So, pretty sure I'm not trying to talk up the value...).
03-03-2018, 02:48 PM
#261
Drifting
MSRP vs MSRP, the R is a the better car. Full stop.
What the market dictates is what the market dictates, so your opinion can differ and that is totally fine. But there shouldn't be any argument on which is the better car (car vs. car).
Yes, the GT3/Touring has the better engine, but you can't fit the SMFW with that engine. In terms of driving feedback and sensation, that matters a lot in my book. Improved infotainment system? That doesn't really matter in the world of pure driving. In 5 years time, every infotainment system will look and feel out of date anyways.
Protecting my investment? I am on the Porsche VIP list and I buy all of my cars at MSRP. So what are you talking about? It's clear to everyone here that it is YOU who have NEVER driven a 911R before, so anything you say is just pure speculations and taking journalists comments out of context. I had a Touring loaned to me for 3 days and I drove it back to back with my 911R. I have a 911.2 GT3 manual on order, but I ordered it with the wing. To me, the Touring is just a GT3 without a wing. If it was tuned differently than the GT3 version, then I would have definitely gave it some serious thought to get it. But it's tuned the exact same way at the GT3, but it doesn't have the downforce. In its on right, it's a fantastic car and I can't wait to get mine. But is it a 911R competitor? NOT EVEN CLOSE.
What the market dictates is what the market dictates, so your opinion can differ and that is totally fine. But there shouldn't be any argument on which is the better car (car vs. car).
Yes, the GT3/Touring has the better engine, but you can't fit the SMFW with that engine. In terms of driving feedback and sensation, that matters a lot in my book. Improved infotainment system? That doesn't really matter in the world of pure driving. In 5 years time, every infotainment system will look and feel out of date anyways.
Protecting my investment? I am on the Porsche VIP list and I buy all of my cars at MSRP. So what are you talking about? It's clear to everyone here that it is YOU who have NEVER driven a 911R before, so anything you say is just pure speculations and taking journalists comments out of context. I had a Touring loaned to me for 3 days and I drove it back to back with my 911R. I have a 911.2 GT3 manual on order, but I ordered it with the wing. To me, the Touring is just a GT3 without a wing. If it was tuned differently than the GT3 version, then I would have definitely gave it some serious thought to get it. But it's tuned the exact same way at the GT3, but it doesn't have the downforce. In its on right, it's a fantastic car and I can't wait to get mine. But is it a 911R competitor? NOT EVEN CLOSE.
...he forgot to mention the better engine in the T, the updated infotainment, the superior steering and suspension settings for high speed driving which he claims apply to the track but also apply to the autobahn where I drive, etc... Although he also forgot to mention the R positives of the the nice RS-style door pulls, the carbon shifter, and the door panels not having the silly chrome trim near the radio.
However, nothing he lists justifies double the price anymore other than the snob factor. The R is definitely special, it just isn't "that" special.
On the one hand you have Bovington, Harris, Preuninger, dyno-charts, usage in the cup car and historical improvement patterns demonstrating the "very likely" superiority of the new motor.
On the other you have guys that are now holding an investment selling to the tune of 350k for a car Porsche produced and sold for a profit at half that price claiming the old motor is superior or equal.
While automotive journalists might stretch the truth some, I find them to be far more credible than a guy protecting his investment.
With all this talk about "liveliness" and all the other subjective stuff people spout off about on a day to day basis, you'd think someone would have an iPhone and turn on a sound meter or something to demonstrate this "special sauce." If you watch the reviews - you definitely don't hear it so it must be magical noises that until you own the car you can't recognize.
However, nothing he lists justifies double the price anymore other than the snob factor. The R is definitely special, it just isn't "that" special.
On the one hand you have Bovington, Harris, Preuninger, dyno-charts, usage in the cup car and historical improvement patterns demonstrating the "very likely" superiority of the new motor.
On the other you have guys that are now holding an investment selling to the tune of 350k for a car Porsche produced and sold for a profit at half that price claiming the old motor is superior or equal.
While automotive journalists might stretch the truth some, I find them to be far more credible than a guy protecting his investment.
With all this talk about "liveliness" and all the other subjective stuff people spout off about on a day to day basis, you'd think someone would have an iPhone and turn on a sound meter or something to demonstrate this "special sauce." If you watch the reviews - you definitely don't hear it so it must be magical noises that until you own the car you can't recognize.
03-03-2018, 03:08 PM
#262
MSRP vs MSRP, the R is a the better car. Full stop.
What the market dictates is what the market dictates, so your opinion can differ and that is totally fine. But there shouldn't be any argument on which is the better car (car vs. car).
Yes, the GT3/Touring has the better engine, but you can't fit the SMFW with that engine. In terms of driving feedback and sensation, that matters a lot in my book. Improved infotainment system? That doesn't really matter in the world of pure driving. In 5 years time, every infotainment system will look and feel out of date anyways.
.
What the market dictates is what the market dictates, so your opinion can differ and that is totally fine. But there shouldn't be any argument on which is the better car (car vs. car).
Yes, the GT3/Touring has the better engine, but you can't fit the SMFW with that engine. In terms of driving feedback and sensation, that matters a lot in my book. Improved infotainment system? That doesn't really matter in the world of pure driving. In 5 years time, every infotainment system will look and feel out of date anyways.
.
I'd also contend that better and desirable are two different things that are often confused when discussions about comparing cars and values arise. Market pricing provides insight into desirability, but not necessarily which car is 'better'. I think the .2 GT3 is a better car, but I still desire a 911R more.
03-03-2018, 04:23 PM
#263
Rennlist Member
I've been buying cars for 30+ years, and never had a 'dull' one - started with a Mk1 Golf GTi, Mk2 RS2000, 205GTi, Type Rs, Maserati,Fiat, Ferrari, Sti, gullwing Merc (Brabus), Subarus, Porsche (multiple GTs and others), McLaren, Lambo (new and old), 8C, Integrale, 918, Jaguar, R8, multiple Audi RS, Focus RS. don't know how many in total, I'm sure others have lots more.
Out of all of them, values aside, pick one car, and it's the R, without question for me, (as a road car). Not saying a CGT or something wouldn't top it, but you'd also lose a lot of the useability. All round, there's nothing out there I can think of that does it all. (Removable Back seats would be perfect...)
(Drove it 2000 miles then took it apart and repainted it the way I wanted, drove another 4000miles+ so far, and it will never be sold. So, pretty sure I'm not trying to talk up the value...).
Out of all of them, values aside, pick one car, and it's the R, without question for me, (as a road car). Not saying a CGT or something wouldn't top it, but you'd also lose a lot of the useability. All round, there's nothing out there I can think of that does it all. (Removable Back seats would be perfect...)
(Drove it 2000 miles then took it apart and repainted it the way I wanted, drove another 4000miles+ so far, and it will never be sold. So, pretty sure I'm not trying to talk up the value...).
That’s about as objective as an opinion can get. Secret sauce is indeed difficult to quantify.
03-03-2018, 04:30 PM
#264
Drifting
You are correct, let me rephrase. Better = More desirable.
To some who argue that the 911R is inferior due to the old engine and etc, is just kidding to themselves. If the 911R was available today at its original MSRP and you could pick between the 911 Touring and the 911R, I don't think anyone would pick the touring because of its "superior" engine, perhaps a few would due to pricing. I understand that the 911R limited availability pissed off a lot of Porsche customers, but Porsche didn't really fix the situation either by releasing the Touring. The amount of resource and attention was never the same between the R and the Touring from the Motorsport department. I feel offended as a Porsche customer to see the 911 Touring, as it simply a GT3 minus the wing. It's a simple cosmetic option. No engineering changes were made whatsoever on the Touring. The affection I have for Porsche cars stems from the fact that their cars is always form follows function. In this particular case, I see the Touring as a half-*** solution to the problem they created in the first place. That's why I specced my 911.2 GT3 in manual with the wing.
Again, this is just my opinion. Don't pay too much attention to it, I can't really color coordinate correctly on my builds
To some who argue that the 911R is inferior due to the old engine and etc, is just kidding to themselves. If the 911R was available today at its original MSRP and you could pick between the 911 Touring and the 911R, I don't think anyone would pick the touring because of its "superior" engine, perhaps a few would due to pricing. I understand that the 911R limited availability pissed off a lot of Porsche customers, but Porsche didn't really fix the situation either by releasing the Touring. The amount of resource and attention was never the same between the R and the Touring from the Motorsport department. I feel offended as a Porsche customer to see the 911 Touring, as it simply a GT3 minus the wing. It's a simple cosmetic option. No engineering changes were made whatsoever on the Touring. The affection I have for Porsche cars stems from the fact that their cars is always form follows function. In this particular case, I see the Touring as a half-*** solution to the problem they created in the first place. That's why I specced my 911.2 GT3 in manual with the wing.
Again, this is just my opinion. Don't pay too much attention to it, I can't really color coordinate correctly on my builds
Why shouldn't there be any argument if different people value different things? How can one car be 'better' than the other, when you're introducing subjective personal values into the decision process? I totally agree that I would prefer an R at the same price, but better to one person isn't better to another, as one's values and wants can obviously be very different. If by better, one means better performing, i.e., quicker around the track, that would be the .2 GT3 it seems.
I'd also contend that better and desirable are two different things that are often confused when discussions about comparing cars and values arise. Market pricing provides insight into desirability, but not necessarily which car is 'better'. I think the .2 GT3 is a better car, but I still desire a 911R more.
I'd also contend that better and desirable are two different things that are often confused when discussions about comparing cars and values arise. Market pricing provides insight into desirability, but not necessarily which car is 'better'. I think the .2 GT3 is a better car, but I still desire a 911R more.
03-03-2018, 04:45 PM
#265
Rennlist Member
"Special sauce" is marketing BS and a mass hysteria. If the R was never made as a limited run but instead was introduced as a mere .2 GT3 (with and without a wing), then it would have been as "special" as any other GT3 made before it.
My 6GT3 has the special sauce with it's super-duper secret alignment and Moton settings. No other car drives and feels like it. $500k, VIP discount included.
My 6GT3 has the special sauce with it's super-duper secret alignment and Moton settings. No other car drives and feels like it. $500k, VIP discount included.
03-03-2018, 04:55 PM
#266
Three Wheelin'
I think that is the best post for the day. 
Your 911R is nicely and uniquely configured. If you are "Color Blind", I'd say it was a perfect error in the way you spec'd your 911R. 
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Your 911R is nicely and uniquely configured. If you are "Color Blind", I'd say it was a perfect error in the way you spec'd your 911R. Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
You are correct, let me rephrase. Better = More desirable.
To some who argue that the 911R is inferior due to the old engine and etc, is just kidding to themselves. If the 911R was available today at its original MSRP and you could pick between the 911 Touring and the 911R, I don't think anyone would pick the touring because of its "superior" engine, perhaps a few would due to pricing. I understand that the 911R limited availability pissed off a lot of Porsche customers, but Porsche didn't really fix the situation either by releasing the Touring. The amount of resource and attention was never the same between the R and the Touring from the Motorsport department. I feel offended as a Porsche customer to see the 911 Touring, as it simply a GT3 minus the wing. It's a simple cosmetic option. No engineering changes were made whatsoever on the Touring. The affection I have for Porsche cars stems from the fact that their cars is always form follows function. In this particular case, I see the Touring as a half-*** solution to the problem they created in the first place. That's why I specced my 911.2 GT3 in manual with the wing.
Again, this is just my opinion. Don't pay too much attention to it, I can't really color coordinate correctly on my builds
To some who argue that the 911R is inferior due to the old engine and etc, is just kidding to themselves. If the 911R was available today at its original MSRP and you could pick between the 911 Touring and the 911R, I don't think anyone would pick the touring because of its "superior" engine, perhaps a few would due to pricing. I understand that the 911R limited availability pissed off a lot of Porsche customers, but Porsche didn't really fix the situation either by releasing the Touring. The amount of resource and attention was never the same between the R and the Touring from the Motorsport department. I feel offended as a Porsche customer to see the 911 Touring, as it simply a GT3 minus the wing. It's a simple cosmetic option. No engineering changes were made whatsoever on the Touring. The affection I have for Porsche cars stems from the fact that their cars is always form follows function. In this particular case, I see the Touring as a half-*** solution to the problem they created in the first place. That's why I specced my 911.2 GT3 in manual with the wing.
Again, this is just my opinion. Don't pay too much attention to it, I can't really color coordinate correctly on my builds
03-03-2018, 05:40 PM
#267
You are correct, let me rephrase. Better = More desirable.
To some who argue that the 911R is inferior due to the old engine and etc, is just kidding to themselves. If the 911R was available today at its original MSRP and you could pick between the 911 Touring and the 911R, I don't think anyone would pick the touring because of its "superior" engine, perhaps a few would due to pricing. I understand that the 911R limited availability pissed off a lot of Porsche customers, but Porsche didn't really fix the situation either by releasing the Touring. The amount of resource and attention was never the same between the R and the Touring from the Motorsport department. I feel offended as a Porsche customer to see the 911 Touring, as it simply a GT3 minus the wing. It's a simple cosmetic option. No engineering changes were made whatsoever on the Touring. The affection I have for Porsche cars stems from the fact that their cars is always form follows function. In this particular case, I see the Touring as a half-*** solution to the problem they created in the first place. That's why I specced my 911.2 GT3 in manual with the wing.
Again, this is just my opinion. Don't pay too much attention to it, I can't really color coordinate correctly on my builds
To some who argue that the 911R is inferior due to the old engine and etc, is just kidding to themselves. If the 911R was available today at its original MSRP and you could pick between the 911 Touring and the 911R, I don't think anyone would pick the touring because of its "superior" engine, perhaps a few would due to pricing. I understand that the 911R limited availability pissed off a lot of Porsche customers, but Porsche didn't really fix the situation either by releasing the Touring. The amount of resource and attention was never the same between the R and the Touring from the Motorsport department. I feel offended as a Porsche customer to see the 911 Touring, as it simply a GT3 minus the wing. It's a simple cosmetic option. No engineering changes were made whatsoever on the Touring. The affection I have for Porsche cars stems from the fact that their cars is always form follows function. In this particular case, I see the Touring as a half-*** solution to the problem they created in the first place. That's why I specced my 911.2 GT3 in manual with the wing.
Again, this is just my opinion. Don't pay too much attention to it, I can't really color coordinate correctly on my builds
Honestly, this assertion is laughable. A previous 7-years of history on this forum would show that if anything, the vast majority of long-term GT buyers are jealous of the individuals who got the 997.2 RS 4.0. The 911 R was the new-money car purchased by a new generation of money who bought the yuppie 918 over God's gift to mankind - the Carrera GT.
I never wanted a 911 R - unless for the sole purpose to flip. I wanted a 991.2 GT3 RS with a manual which looks like will never be offered unless there's another special edition yet to come. ...buy that and I'll be a little jealous.
I like some features on the R but ultimately I'll take the superior motor and high speed driving dynamics of the Touring for driving on the Autobahn and jumping on the Nurburgring. I guess on those ****ty pothole-filled roads in LA that you have all this driving experience on the SMFW might make the R a bit more fun to put around town and take to cars and coffee.
I had zero interest in any 991.1 GT cars; my post history is indicative of that. Claiming the Motorsport department blessed the R with resources and attention is laughably silly considering they didn't even see fit to put that motor in the Cup and instead stuck with the Mezger for years.
Last edited by destaccado; 03-03-2018 at 06:15 PM.
03-03-2018, 05:53 PM
#268
Drifting
Thread Starter
We have plenty of great roads in LA. Happy to take you along for a ride if your ever in LALA land.
My personal favorite is Malibu Canyon to Mulholland Drive to Decker Canyon.
My personal favorite is Malibu Canyon to Mulholland Drive to Decker Canyon.
03-03-2018, 06:15 PM
#269
Who loaned it to you? With all the CA cars stuck due to CARB restrictions and you claiming you live in California -- where? Why would someone loan you a car when every model is sold and VIPs needed to decide much earlier to grab an allocation? Got a picture of the 3-Touring you had for 3-days next to your R like everyone else on this board who's driven both has taken? Why didn't you post anything about it on the board when it happened and did you only post when you thought you needed to to win an argument?
Not saying you're lying yet but my BS flag is slowly starting to raise.
03-03-2018, 06:41 PM
#270
Drifting
Yes, I live in Los Angeles. Who do you think have the ability to loan me a car for 3 days when the first batch of customers car were stuck due to CARB? Who has the ability to air freight test cars into the US for testing/engineering purposes? I don't think it's too hard to figure that one out.
Why would I need to post anything about it? Is there something that I need to prove to people like you on Rennlist? I have no issues with the Touring whatsoever. It's a great car. It's only when people like you who love to trash about the 911R and make the comparisons would I feel the need to set the facts straight.
Do I also need to post the fact that I was on Jay Leno's Garage and build 2 cars so far that both have made it as a Hot Wheels cars? We also shot an video with Magnus as well swapping cars. Do you have a Hot Wheels car? I guess not.
Do I also need to tell you the fact that both of these restomod cars that I built have won awards at SEMA? The Ford Design Award and the Sony Playstation Gran Turismo Best of Show award?
You think you know things, but you don't. You certainly are not connected in the car world. I certainly don't claim I know everything, but one thing that is for sure here, I have driven both cars and you haven't.
It's one thing to read about car articles and it's a whole another world when you are personal friends with the people who writes and publishes them.
Why would I need to post anything about it? Is there something that I need to prove to people like you on Rennlist? I have no issues with the Touring whatsoever. It's a great car. It's only when people like you who love to trash about the 911R and make the comparisons would I feel the need to set the facts straight.
Do I also need to post the fact that I was on Jay Leno's Garage and build 2 cars so far that both have made it as a Hot Wheels cars? We also shot an video with Magnus as well swapping cars. Do you have a Hot Wheels car? I guess not.
Do I also need to tell you the fact that both of these restomod cars that I built have won awards at SEMA? The Ford Design Award and the Sony Playstation Gran Turismo Best of Show award?
You think you know things, but you don't. You certainly are not connected in the car world. I certainly don't claim I know everything, but one thing that is for sure here, I have driven both cars and you haven't.
It's one thing to read about car articles and it's a whole another world when you are personal friends with the people who writes and publishes them.
I have a couple questions.
Who loaned it to you? With all the CA cars stuck due to CARB restrictions until supposedly the end of last month and you claiming you live in California -- where? Why would someone loan you a car when every model is sold and VIPs needed to decide much earlier to grab an allocation? Got a picture of the 3-Touring you had for 3-days next to your R like everyone else on this board who's driven both has taken? Why didn't you post anything about it on the board when it happened and did you only post when you thought you needed to to win an argument?
Not saying you're lying yet but my BS flag is slowly starting to raise.
Who loaned it to you? With all the CA cars stuck due to CARB restrictions until supposedly the end of last month and you claiming you live in California -- where? Why would someone loan you a car when every model is sold and VIPs needed to decide much earlier to grab an allocation? Got a picture of the 3-Touring you had for 3-days next to your R like everyone else on this board who's driven both has taken? Why didn't you post anything about it on the board when it happened and did you only post when you thought you needed to to win an argument?
Not saying you're lying yet but my BS flag is slowly starting to raise.