STG

Well said. The only ones who seem to think there is a dealer problem are guys on forums. Trust me, nobody else is losing sleep over it. PCNA is selling plenty of cars, and so are dealers. Things could not be better.

Now what model specific decisions PAG has made, that is another story.

ipse dixit

Truth be told, no one (if they weren't punch drunk being a Rennlist keyboard warrior) would really want a car manufacturer -- Porsche, or whomever -- being in the car sales business.

The costs, and these are fixed, of running a car dealership -- just one, not even a nationwide network of dealerships -- in the United States are rather significant. A car dealserhip sits on multiple acres. Requires infrastructure for showrooms, service bays building, offices, etc. Then it will also need human capital to sell the cars, finance the cars, service the cars, etc. This ties up and requires a staggering amount of capital. Then let's not forget that there are at least 50 different sets of laws for employment, labor, HR, as well as financing and consumer disclosure requirements.

Tesla is now quickly coming to the conclusion that building a car is one thing, selling them and then servicing them in some 30 different jurisdictions is quite another.

I can't speak for other countries, but in the United States it's a lot easier to do behind a keyboard on Rennlist than it is in real life.

Oh, and let's not forget. If PAG was selling all the cars directly to you, how would you feel about paying MSRP for a bloated Panamera?

evilfij

The model is to shift away from dealers and to vertically integrate with manufacturer owned retailers. You see this in many consumer areas. From soda bottlers to Apple stores to Rolex. Often there is a transition period where manufacturer stores co-exist with independent authorized retailers. This is the case, as I understand it, with Porsche in some European markets. The car dealer lobby was strong enough to maintain their niche by getting state laws passed to prevent this, but how long that lasts is anyone’s guess. Tesla thinks they can do it.

As far as whether it makes sense or not, it depends. There are five dealers within an hour of me. They all have different owners and compete (on price) against one another. Is that good for the dealers? Is it good for consumers? Maybe. But would a carmax style model where everything was fixed price based on data and free transfers of inventory serve the consumer better? Couldn’t the inventory (cars and parts) be managed better under common control? Standardized pricing of cars and service? There is a lot of ineffeciency in the current dealer model and my view is that it is only a matter of time before that changes. Whether it is the Tesla model or something else, I can’t see generations of people used to buying everything with one click online tolerating the current dealer model forever. And it is particularly bad with Porsche because there are a staggering number of models and options choices. Most manufacturers you basically pick a model, trim level, and a color. With Porsche, it is almost the case that no two are alike. No reason I should not be able to go through the configurator and instead of hitting send to dealer, hit send to factory and have my car built.

SToronto

Excellent point!! Write a letter to PCNA cc PAG.

It does make some sense though to spread the brand because maybe those other buyers will step into another Porsche model as well and GT series car. Then again so do GT3 buyers.

STG

Some very valid points. Overall, the consumer benefits more often than not under the current franchise model.

Aside from the ADM drama, what is the issue with current dealer network??

One thing guys here always fail to realize is that PORSCHE is the real reason for scarcity. NOT DEALERS. Blame Porsche for the ADM drama.

Porsche going to own and operate 200 US dealers?? $10,000,000 investment each? Plus operate them? Think not. You would be paying more and get worse service trust me.

You ever pay an ADM on a Macan or Panny? NOPE. Why? Because Porsche does not limit their production numbers and shoves them down dealers throats. Buyers get discounts on 95% +++ of all Porsche purchases.

Production numbers are controlled by PAG. They are getting the result they want with the GT cars. It is working as intended. Blame them.

brake dust

Thanks for clarification on technical ownership Eduardo. The relationship was more about the parts side of the business and not on the front end of the business - selling of cars. Just to add a little for accuracy's sake, Bruce actually sold the dealership to Jerry Severin. Jerry in turn sold the dealership to the Penske Automotive Group. For more background on the connection between Stoddard and the Porsche AG, this from the Stoddard Parts website:

During 1983, after 28 years, Chuck relinquished control of the dealership. Because of his years of working closely with Porsche AG, SIC was purchased by the Porsche Factory to facilitate a significant worldwide expansion of the Stoddard support provided for older Porsche models: all 356, 911 and 912 through '73, 914, and non-current racing cars. Primary distribution was from Willoughby, Ohio and to Europe via a duty-free zone in Switzerland. Chuck Stoddard was retained for a transitional period over several years.

Cheers!

Archimedes

BTW, which customer do you think Porsche values more, the guy that has the money and willingness to pay $25k over sticker for one of their cars or the guy who kicks and screams and is only willing to pay MSRP? As long as the cars get sold, I'm sure the former is more desirable and valuable to them.

ipse dixit

Define "Porsche".

If by Porsche you mean Porsche A.G., it's irrelevant to them.

If by Porsche you mean your local dealership, then sure it's the former, but again this dynamic does not trickle up to A.G. It doesn't even trickle up to PCNA.

CAlexio

What about the repeat customer who has purchased multiple cars and demands to pay MSRP, vs the one who just wants a gt3 and is willing to pay the dealer ADM to get one?

PantsFire

The question we should be asking is 'Why not both the MSRP guy and the ADM guy?'.

Seriously, if 10,000 people want GT3's and will pay you money then fuppin well make 10,000 cars?!

They have no excuse that stands up to any scrutiny.

Archimedes

You’re assuming that the MSRP guy is going to buy more other P cars than the ADM guy. I think that’s a false assumption. ADM guy is just as likely to buy other cars. And may be likely to pay more for them.

usctrojanGT3

I'd be willing to bet that the person who does buy non-GT cars from the same dealer will be more vocal about wanting to their GT cars at MSRP than a guy who never bought a non-GT car and is willing to pay an ADM for a GT car (the more non-GT cars someone has bought the more vocal they'll be about getting GT cars at MSRP). I really have 3 big problems with what's going on today...

1. Dealers spec'ing their own cars to sell for ADMs (most of the spec'ed cars are dumb)
2. Dealers selling their GT allocations for ADMs to greedy stealers who want to mark up the cars more
3. Dealers who don't sell GT cars to their good customers at MSRP and treat them like out-of-town snipers who are dialing for cars

#2 and #3 **** me off the most.

Golden Boy

Paid adm on my .1 gt3rs. Was my first porsche. Have my .2 gt3rs on “order” at msrp. Traded in my .1 for full msrp less adm. dealer specific reason for adm on first car was to avoid a flipper in their words. Since im going to be a repeat customer now to them they clearly said no adm moving forward. We will see if and when the .2 gt3rs is announced, ordered and hopefully delivered to me. If all works out I don’t see anything wrong ADM’ing a new “walk in”customer.

Z356

SIC was purchased by the Porsche Factory
to facilitate a significant worldwide expansion
of the Stoddard support provided for older
Porsche models: all 356, 911 and 912 through '
73, 914, and non-current racing cars.

http://www.stoddard.com/aboutus

Purchased by the Porsche Factory? Not true,
regardless what it says on the current Stoddard
Parts website!

Exhibit A
'Schwartz, who originally purchased Stoddard Imported Cars
from Porsche Holding of Salzburg, Austria in 2004', not PAG.




***
Exhibit B


http://carsyeah.com/ourportfolio/521-bruce-schwartz/

***
Exhibit C

I know well Brad Ripley, who worked in the Stoddard parts dept
in those early days (1970s/1980's) & eventually started NLA in
Reno (which is now owned by Bruce Schwartz). I can assure
you that Stoddard (the parts side of the business) was never
a separate group that was owned/managed/controlled by the
Porsche Factory even after 1983. They cooperated on 356
part reproduction projects, but there was no ownership by the
Porsche factory itself.

***
Exhibit D
'Just to add a little for accuracy's sake, Bruce
actually sold the dealership to Jerry Severin.
Jerry in turn sold the dealership to the Penske
Automotive Group.'

I can believe it. But it must have been a very
short interim between Bruce's sale of SIC to
Jerry Severin & Roger Penske's purchase.
Even the current Stoddard Parts webpage
you quoted states the following:

"March 1, 2011 saw the sale of the Audi and
Porsche Automobile Franchises to the Penske
Automotive Group".

As you can read from Bruce's press release dated
Feb 9th 2011 (Exhibit A), Severin's ownership had
to be a very short period of perhaps month(s). Or
perhaps Jerry Severin was only a front man for
Penske on that purchase! Tell us more about what
you know on this matter. Thanks.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale

StudGarden

They can give allocations to any dealer they want however they want. No hyper aggressive ambulance chasing AG can force them to give them out as they wish.