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Shandingo,
You are correct in just about all cases until very recently. The particular caliper in question actually has a removable bridge, whereas most of AP's elite-level racing calipers of the past were machined from billet with a fixed bridge. The billet ones are even lighter yet, but they are more like 3-4 times more expensive, rather than merely double!
Thanks for correcting Jeff. As usual a very thorough and precise response. Sorry to muddy the waters.
Thanks for correcting Jeff. As usual a very thorough and precise response. Sorry to muddy the waters.
No muddying at all. Thanks for stopping in!
__________________
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs Ferodo Racing Brake Pads Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030 jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
Thanks for all the Info guys really great to know. My reason for having the PCCBs is mainly unsprung weight and resale but I am guilty of heavy track use and planned to shift to something more cost effective but very easy to get the J hook discs to fit with little difference in comparison to weight of the OE irons. The Radi Cal system is available for use with the PCCBs as a whole switch out yes? is one able to use different discs with the Calipers alone or are the tolerances specific to the J hook discs? What is the difference in weight from the OE PCCBs to this? Thanks again guys great info
Thanks for all the Info guys really great to know. My reason for having the PCCBs is mainly unsprung weight and resale but I am guilty of heavy track use and planned to shift to something more cost effective but very easy to get the J hook discs to fit with little difference in comparison to weight of the OE irons. The Radi Cal system is available for use with the PCCBs as a whole switch out yes? is one able to use different discs with the Calipers alone or are the tolerances specific to the J hook discs? What is the difference in weight from the OE PCCBs to this? Thanks again guys great info
Our complete system weighs about 3 lbs. more per corner than the OEM PCCB system, and is roughly 33 lbs. lighter than the OEM iron system. You get most of the weight savings of the PCCB's without all of the cost and hassles. Yes, our Radi-CAL system replaces the OEM iron or PCCB system. It will work on cars originally equipped with either OEM system.
Front
OEM iron front disc= 24.2 lbs.
OEM PCCB front disc= 15.1 lbs.
AP Racing iron disc in our Radi-CAL front system= 21.5 lbs.
OEM front caliper weight= 9.3 lbs.
AP Racing front Radi-CAL weight= 6.2 lbs.
Rear
OEM iron rear disc= 24.0 lbs.
OEM PCCB rear disc= 13.5 lbs.
AP Racing iron disc in our Radi-CAL rear system= 19.1 lbs.
OEM rear caliper weight= 7.5 lbs.
AP Racing rear Radi-CAL weight= 4.85 lbs.
Race teams only need the brakes to last the distance of the race, and although LeMans is a long race, it is not quite the same as designing a brake system to last over years of use for thousands of miles. I'm not saying that this brake system won't go the distance just that engineering for a race is very different than for long term street car.
You are spot on! In pro motorsports, everything is designed to only make to the end of the race. The team doesn't care if it blows up immeidately after crossing the finish line and winning the race. For our aftermarket systems like this one however, we build in far more durability, because we know our retail customers aren't working with endless buckets of sponsorship money. If we went the 'just enough' route on the 991 GT3, we'd be running custom spindles with 355mm discs mated to 4 lb. calipers on both ends of the car. Our system is incredibly overbuilt for this chassis. When people start reporting in with their wear rates, I expect them to be fantastic. On many platforms, our customers pay their brake systems off in consumable savings alone, because they aren't constantly throwing spares at the brakes, bleeding them, etc.
We have customers running our systems in all types of environments for years on end without any issues or required rebuilds. It's not at all uncommon for our customers to ask if race calipers need some special type of care or feeding. They're designed specifically for use under the most abusive conditions possible, and puttering around under gentle loads certainly doesn't put any abnormal strains on them. Here's a corvette customer who ran our system hard for over30,000 track/race miles over three years, won 14 times, and snagged 25 podiums without ever rebuilding his calipers! https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...a-and-trans-am
Please check out our blog for loads of other examples of people running our kits on all types of sportscars in all types of situations: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog
That being said Any way to use these calipers with a Ceramic Disc like ST makes? Wonder what the weight would be.....
The discs and calipers in our system are designed to work with each other, and one cannot use discs from other manufacturers unless they were identical in every dimension. No such discs exist to our knowledge. If you dig around here on the forum, the AP J Hook discs are known to be the longest-lasting discs on the market anyway, so there wouldn't be any logical reason to replace them.
Please see my comments above on the ST discs, and carbon ceramic discs in general, for racetrack use. The added weight savings would be great, but there are too many downsides to carbon ceramic discs to make them a viable long-term solution for track use. Iron discs are inexpensive, readily available, and durable. We had one customer get an estimated 70+ track days out his AP Racing iron discs! When they finally do crack, you recycle them and load on a new set. No waiting around, no fuss, no shipping them to the other side of the world for them to be serviced. The idea that people are even thinking about going that route is shocking to me. Anybody who has ever shipped anything abroad should know that is a recipe for lengthy delays, hurt feelings, and high costs. Essex is set up as an authorized AP Racing caliper re-certification center for that very reason, and we typically hold millions of dollars in spares on-hand. I can't even fathom shipping a NASCAR Cup team's calipers off to England to be rebuilt. They would lose their minds if we even suggested it! lol. All of our customers have our caliper rebuild service at their disposal (in Charlotte, NC) for the life of the product. The same techs who rebuild the pro race calipers will rebuild yours: https://www.essexparts.com/pro-race-...ecertification
Last edited by JRitt@essex; 07-31-2018 at 04:07 PM.
Reason: Corrected mistake
Something I failed to mention earlier. The top teams will frequently replace an entire brake corner during a pitstop, rather than just replacing pads. I just wanted to point that out. The IMSA 3GT Lexus RCF is also running the same AP Radi-CAL as the RSR. Here's what you would see at the track when they are prepping for a pitstop:
Also, I found a couple more images of the RSR brakes from Daytona earlier this year:
Good lord Mech 33, your car looks insanely good.....
Originally Posted by GrantG
+1
Not only are those brakes a big upgrade over OEM, but I think the Black calipers work much better than Red or Yellow with your build
Thanks! Yes, I'm not going to lie: the cosmetics of the dark grey AP calipers were a factor. :P
Originally Posted by Alan C.
Mech33, Beautiful car. The Radi-CAL brakes make a lot more sense than PCCBs.
Agreed, for all the reasons well-explained by Ritter in this thread. I'm done cracking ceramic pucks and pulling the calipers and brake line brackets off just to swap pads...
So I finally got to the track this weekend and after three days of thrashing these brakes I am thoroughly impressed. Unless you're really willing to break the law, the Ferodo pads need to be bedded on the track. No real, safe way around it, but once you get that white crust around the pads you know they're ready to pound. And pound I did. The pedal feel over the ceramics is unbelievable. I drove the ceramics for nearly an hour at my last event in order to heat them up for some feel and that was still nowhere close to this setup from the start. My two favorite experiences were catching an '18 GT3 in the hands of an excellent driver, not in a corner or on a straight but under braking. My other favorite was having folks come up and look specifically under the car to see what kind of cheater parts I am using. Truly satisfying, both of those.
So I finally got to the track this weekend and after three days of thrashing these brakes I am thoroughly impressed. Unless you're really willing to break the law, the Ferodo pads need to be bedded on the track. No real, safe way around it, but once you get that white crust around the pads you know they're ready to pound. And pound I did. The pedal feel over the ceramics is unbelievable. I drove the ceramics for nearly an hour at my last event in order to heat them up for some feel and that was still nowhere close to this setup from the start. My two favorite experiences were catching an '18 GT3 in the hands of an excellent driver, not in a corner or on a straight but under braking. My other favorite was having folks come up and look specifically under the car to see what kind of cheater parts I am using. Truly satisfying, both of those.
Nice to see a GT3 that has been driven hard and actually dirty. It's been on the track and on road; right where it belongs. Good for you sir!
06-28-2018, 12:36 PM
All of our customers have our caliper rebuild service at their disposal (in Charlotte, NC) for the life of the product. The same techs who rebuild the pro race calipers will rebuild yours:
