Road and Track: Performance Car of the Year
11-04-2017, 11:09 AM
#76
YES! and at that price no need to worry about while on the track.
I have RS and 2017 Camaro 1LE with R7, alignment, Hawk DTC70 harness bar and Ill run circles around my RS!
I see so many here looking at theses high dollar parts for their car as if they need that to track it. 99.99% of the drivers here that track their RS or GT3 need to do nothing to their cars other then keeping fresh tires and a nice alignment! Cazillion dollar special brake lines, zillion dollar half shafts etc is completely silly. Now if you wanna buy it cause you want to then thats cool but to buy it to make you THINK your going to go faster is just silly.
11-04-2017, 11:17 AM
#77
Drifting
YES! and at that price no need to worry about while on the track.
I have RS and 2017 Camaro 1LE with R7, alignment, Hawk DTC70 harness bar and Ill run circles around my RS!
I see so many here looking at theses high dollar parts for their car as if they need that to track it. 99.99% of the drivers here that track their RS or GT3 need to do nothing to their cars other then keeping fresh tires and a nice alignment! Cazillion dollar special brake lines, zillion dollar half shafts etc is completely silly. Now if you wanna buy it cause you want to then thats cool but to buy it to make you THINK your going to go faster is just silly.
I have RS and 2017 Camaro 1LE with R7, alignment, Hawk DTC70 harness bar and Ill run circles around my RS!
I see so many here looking at theses high dollar parts for their car as if they need that to track it. 99.99% of the drivers here that track their RS or GT3 need to do nothing to their cars other then keeping fresh tires and a nice alignment! Cazillion dollar special brake lines, zillion dollar half shafts etc is completely silly. Now if you wanna buy it cause you want to then thats cool but to buy it to make you THINK your going to go faster is just silly.
Agree that some mods are silly. Mine for the RS are now more safety oriented- cage, harness, upgraded brakes- but that is it! Camaro 1LE is a killer car, at around 40k out the door is hard to beat. I have contemplated strongly as I can drive the crap out of it almost guilt free at that price.
11-04-2017, 10:23 PM
#78
Agree that some mods are silly. Mine for the RS are now more safety oriented- cage, harness, upgraded brakes- but that is it! Camaro 1LE is a killer car, at around 40k out the door is hard to beat. I have contemplated strongly as I can drive the crap out of it almost guilt free at that price.
Never a bad investment
11-05-2017, 12:38 AM
#79
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
11-05-2017, 10:29 AM
#80
Rennlist Member
No surprise really. GT3's are always uber alignment sensitive, and the e-diff from PDK does work nicely, but still doesn't matter one bit to me, the 6MT GT3 is an old school 911 in this world of electronic wizardry and turbos.
NCM is my home track, and it presents some unique challenges and you basically set the car up for T5 (and T16), but want good rotation still in slow corners and traction off. Quite a few slow, 2nd gear corners in the short configuration they ran (T2, T6, T10, and T13) etc. (not the Grand Full course). The big torque of the turbos def. help getting off all those corners. They key in a manual car is to use 2nd to get off some of these corners and then short shift to 3rd before the next. T6 to T7 and T10 to T12 is a perfect example of this. This seems to typically net the best lap times.
The E-diff of the Camaro is brilliant, it puts down all that power crazy good, I'm sure the Merc does too.
IMO, the 6MT showed pretty well considering the HP/torque deficit and lack of electronic LSD compared to the competition. The reality is that most 6MT customers don't care about the absolute numbers anyway, and if they did, they would just buy a PDK. The beauty of Porsche, they give you the choice.
NCM is my home track, and it presents some unique challenges and you basically set the car up for T5 (and T16), but want good rotation still in slow corners and traction off. Quite a few slow, 2nd gear corners in the short configuration they ran (T2, T6, T10, and T13) etc. (not the Grand Full course). The big torque of the turbos def. help getting off all those corners. They key in a manual car is to use 2nd to get off some of these corners and then short shift to 3rd before the next. T6 to T7 and T10 to T12 is a perfect example of this. This seems to typically net the best lap times.
The E-diff of the Camaro is brilliant, it puts down all that power crazy good, I'm sure the Merc does too.
IMO, the 6MT showed pretty well considering the HP/torque deficit and lack of electronic LSD compared to the competition. The reality is that most 6MT customers don't care about the absolute numbers anyway, and if they did, they would just buy a PDK. The beauty of Porsche, they give you the choice.
11-06-2017, 01:06 AM
#84
Race Director
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ws&date=110517
impressions on the manual version
"The limited-production 911 R was precisely calculated to appeal to the wacky-cloth retro-obsessed air-cooled cult, of which your humble author is at the very least an affiliate member, but the GT3 dispenses with the cutesy bits and just serves up the good parts."
"Instead of electric-motor torque, you get the thrilling experience of winding the four-liter through its long first and second gears, letting it rev way past the point where anything but a superbike should cry uncle, then finally watching the tach flash red as you snap the solid-feeling shift lever into the next slot. It’s an experience that is unavailable in any other new car for sale today and it alone will ensure that there’s a waiting list from now until the final day of production."
"Ol’ Claude also liked to tell us that we understand most concepts in terms of opposites, which is why he named a book The Raw And The Cooked. In this case, what we have is “The Real And The Fake.” The engineering excellence of the GT3 is real, and it’s spectacular. The scarcity of the car, the dealer markups, the unnecessary decision to make the pre-facelift cars PDK-only and thus send 997-generation GT3s into the resale stratosphere? That’s all fake. It’s like Rolex’s decision to limit production on green-bezeled Submariners."
impressions on the manual version
"The limited-production 911 R was precisely calculated to appeal to the wacky-cloth retro-obsessed air-cooled cult, of which your humble author is at the very least an affiliate member, but the GT3 dispenses with the cutesy bits and just serves up the good parts."
"Instead of electric-motor torque, you get the thrilling experience of winding the four-liter through its long first and second gears, letting it rev way past the point where anything but a superbike should cry uncle, then finally watching the tach flash red as you snap the solid-feeling shift lever into the next slot. It’s an experience that is unavailable in any other new car for sale today and it alone will ensure that there’s a waiting list from now until the final day of production."
"Ol’ Claude also liked to tell us that we understand most concepts in terms of opposites, which is why he named a book The Raw And The Cooked. In this case, what we have is “The Real And The Fake.” The engineering excellence of the GT3 is real, and it’s spectacular. The scarcity of the car, the dealer markups, the unnecessary decision to make the pre-facelift cars PDK-only and thus send 997-generation GT3s into the resale stratosphere? That’s all fake. It’s like Rolex’s decision to limit production on green-bezeled Submariners."
11-06-2017, 01:13 AM
#85
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ws&date=110517
impressions on the manual version
"The limited-production 911 R was precisely calculated to appeal to the wacky-cloth retro-obsessed air-cooled cult, of which your humble author is at the very least an affiliate member, but the GT3 dispenses with the cutesy bits and just serves up the good parts."
"Instead of electric-motor torque, you get the thrilling experience of winding the four-liter through its long first and second gears, letting it rev way past the point where anything but a superbike should cry uncle, then finally watching the tach flash red as you snap the solid-feeling shift lever into the next slot. It’s an experience that is unavailable in any other new car for sale today and it alone will ensure that there’s a waiting list from now until the final day of production."
"Ol’ Claude also liked to tell us that we understand most concepts in terms of opposites, which is why he named a book The Raw And The Cooked. In this case, what we have is “The Real And The Fake.” The engineering excellence of the GT3 is real, and it’s spectacular. The scarcity of the car, the dealer markups, the unnecessary decision to make the pre-facelift cars PDK-only and thus send 997-generation GT3s into the resale stratosphere? That’s all fake. It’s like Rolex’s decision to limit production on green-bezeled Submariners."
impressions on the manual version
"The limited-production 911 R was precisely calculated to appeal to the wacky-cloth retro-obsessed air-cooled cult, of which your humble author is at the very least an affiliate member, but the GT3 dispenses with the cutesy bits and just serves up the good parts."
"Instead of electric-motor torque, you get the thrilling experience of winding the four-liter through its long first and second gears, letting it rev way past the point where anything but a superbike should cry uncle, then finally watching the tach flash red as you snap the solid-feeling shift lever into the next slot. It’s an experience that is unavailable in any other new car for sale today and it alone will ensure that there’s a waiting list from now until the final day of production."
"Ol’ Claude also liked to tell us that we understand most concepts in terms of opposites, which is why he named a book The Raw And The Cooked. In this case, what we have is “The Real And The Fake.” The engineering excellence of the GT3 is real, and it’s spectacular. The scarcity of the car, the dealer markups, the unnecessary decision to make the pre-facelift cars PDK-only and thus send 997-generation GT3s into the resale stratosphere? That’s all fake. It’s like Rolex’s decision to limit production on green-bezeled Submariners."
This isn’t going to create 911 fans. It serves existing 911 fans.
11-06-2017, 01:37 AM
#86
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ws&date=110517
impressions on the manual version
"The limited-production 911 R was precisely calculated to appeal to the wacky-cloth retro-obsessed air-cooled cult, of which your humble author is at the very least an affiliate member, but the GT3 dispenses with the cutesy bits and just serves up the good parts."
"Instead of electric-motor torque, you get the thrilling experience of winding the four-liter through its long first and second gears, letting it rev way past the point where anything but a superbike should cry uncle, then finally watching the tach flash red as you snap the solid-feeling shift lever into the next slot. It’s an experience that is unavailable in any other new car for sale today and it alone will ensure that there’s a waiting list from now until the final day of production."
"Ol’ Claude also liked to tell us that we understand most concepts in terms of opposites, which is why he named a book The Raw And The Cooked. In this case, what we have is “The Real And The Fake.” The engineering excellence of the GT3 is real, and it’s spectacular. The scarcity of the car, the dealer markups, the unnecessary decision to make the pre-facelift cars PDK-only and thus send 997-generation GT3s into the resale stratosphere? That’s all fake. It’s like Rolex’s decision to limit production on green-bezeled Submariners."
impressions on the manual version
"The limited-production 911 R was precisely calculated to appeal to the wacky-cloth retro-obsessed air-cooled cult, of which your humble author is at the very least an affiliate member, but the GT3 dispenses with the cutesy bits and just serves up the good parts."
"Instead of electric-motor torque, you get the thrilling experience of winding the four-liter through its long first and second gears, letting it rev way past the point where anything but a superbike should cry uncle, then finally watching the tach flash red as you snap the solid-feeling shift lever into the next slot. It’s an experience that is unavailable in any other new car for sale today and it alone will ensure that there’s a waiting list from now until the final day of production."
"Ol’ Claude also liked to tell us that we understand most concepts in terms of opposites, which is why he named a book The Raw And The Cooked. In this case, what we have is “The Real And The Fake.” The engineering excellence of the GT3 is real, and it’s spectacular. The scarcity of the car, the dealer markups, the unnecessary decision to make the pre-facelift cars PDK-only and thus send 997-generation GT3s into the resale stratosphere? That’s all fake. It’s like Rolex’s decision to limit production on green-bezeled Submariners."
Also, I believe the first GT3 was delivered in 1998 as a 996 Cup variant - thus the long history really sits with the vanilla Carrera. In fact IIRC the GT3 didn't even come in wide body form until the 991.
The other reality is, in the PCOTY the GT3 was thumped by the AMG GT R by close to four seconds - this means from the performance perspective the GT R is better under brakes, quicker through corners and faster on the straights. 4s is a very big margin. Does it matter? yes if you're buying a performance car and no if you're buying an experience.
I know the new GT3 will be a great drivers car, however there are many choices these days that offer up different types of great experiences - its very narrow to think that only NA - manual can deliver this.
I believe the line about "serving existing fans" is right and thats a good thing.
"It was the only one of our test cars to feel genuinely nervous on NCM Motorsports Park’s back straight and it was the only one that would occasionally hunt the front wheels around under braking." This does smack of an issue with alignment both front and rear - nervousness can be rear toe issues leading to a thrust angle that deviates from zero - all I can say my car is very planted at 250kmh and brakes true from that speed.
Last edited by randr; 11-06-2017 at 02:24 AM.
11-06-2017, 01:49 AM
#87
Rennlist Member
I think that article was written before the PCOTY review - and to be fair the GT3 has all sorts of drivers aids - RAS - PTV - SPASM - PDCC - PCCB - SC and nanny aids on top of that.
Also the first GT3 was delivered in 1998 as a 996 Cup variant - the long history really sits with the vanilla Carrera. In fact the GT3 didn't even come in wide body form until the 991.
The other reality is, in the PCOTY the GT3 was thumped by the AMG GT R by close to four seconds - this means from the performance perspective the GT R is better under brakes, quicker through corners and faster on the straights. 4s is a very big margin.
I know the new GT3 will be a great drivers car, however there are many choices these days that offer up different types of great experiences - its very narrow to think that only NA - manual can deliver this.
Also the first GT3 was delivered in 1998 as a 996 Cup variant - the long history really sits with the vanilla Carrera. In fact the GT3 didn't even come in wide body form until the 991.
The other reality is, in the PCOTY the GT3 was thumped by the AMG GT R by close to four seconds - this means from the performance perspective the GT R is better under brakes, quicker through corners and faster on the straights. 4s is a very big margin.
I know the new GT3 will be a great drivers car, however there are many choices these days that offer up different types of great experiences - its very narrow to think that only NA - manual can deliver this.
We all know you love and prefer clinical turbo rocketships over true drivers cars which are 1-NA, 2-manual, 3- lightweight. None of which apply to your preferred cars.
It’s great that you love, enjoy, and prefer turbos, but go discuss that with fellow turbo enthusiasts instead of trying to convert us.
11-06-2017, 02:31 AM
#88
Dude, you live in your own echo chamber yet feel compelled to preach to us.
We all know you love and prefer clinical turbo rocketships over true drivers cars which are 1-NA, 2-manual, 3- lightweight. None of which apply to your preferred cars.
It’s great that you love, enjoy, and prefer turbos, but go discuss that with fellow turbo enthusiasts instead of trying to convert us.
We all know you love and prefer clinical turbo rocketships over true drivers cars which are 1-NA, 2-manual, 3- lightweight. None of which apply to your preferred cars.
It’s great that you love, enjoy, and prefer turbos, but go discuss that with fellow turbo enthusiasts instead of trying to convert us.
A Lotus is a light weight sports car, a TR6 is a light weight sports car, a Miata is a light weight sports car, a 991 GT3 is not
11-06-2017, 03:21 AM
#89
Rennlist Member
Dude, you live in your own echo chamber yet feel compelled to preach to us.
We all know you love and prefer clinical turbo rocketships over true drivers cars which are 1-NA, 2-manual, 3- lightweight. None of which apply to your preferred cars.
It’s great that you love, enjoy, and prefer turbos, but go discuss that with fellow turbo enthusiasts instead of trying to convert us.
We all know you love and prefer clinical turbo rocketships over true drivers cars which are 1-NA, 2-manual, 3- lightweight. None of which apply to your preferred cars.
It’s great that you love, enjoy, and prefer turbos, but go discuss that with fellow turbo enthusiasts instead of trying to convert us.
Your inference that you cannot have fun in a Turbo car and, if you do, you are some kind of non-purist driving moron, is simply not true.
Being one of the very few on this forum who actually have both a AMG GTR and a GT3.2, I can tell you that both are fun and "pure" to drive in different ways. Just as the GT2 will be different...and it's a turbo too.
Indeed, around town and normal speeds, I have more fun in my M2 than I have in either the GT3 or the GTR. Each car delivers fun, thrills and driving pleasure in completely different situation....which is a good thing.
11-06-2017, 04:20 AM
#90
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Dude, you live in your own echo chamber yet feel compelled to preach to us.
We all know you love and prefer clinical turbo rocketships over true drivers cars which are 1-NA, 2-manual, 3- lightweight. None of which apply to your preferred cars.
It’s great that you love, enjoy, and prefer turbos, but go discuss that with fellow turbo enthusiasts instead of trying to convert us.
We all know you love and prefer clinical turbo rocketships over true drivers cars which are 1-NA, 2-manual, 3- lightweight. None of which apply to your preferred cars.
It’s great that you love, enjoy, and prefer turbos, but go discuss that with fellow turbo enthusiasts instead of trying to convert us.
I miss my lotus. Those were so much fun to drive. Too bad they don’t import the elige anymore. With nannies like I think they have now they would be perfect. The sound of the blower whine and the 2zz at 8700 rpm was transcendental. Sometimes I put the windows down in the Jag so I can hear the whine, but it’s just not the same. Sounds great with the V8, but not the same.