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Do you know what the Engine Malfunction light is for...i.e. have you had it diagnosed?
Not yet, have an appointment to drop it off later this week. I drive the car maybe once a week at most. I've seen the light before for various other minor things. I always had this idea that my car has a 10 YEAR ENGINE WARRANTY. When I brought it up to my SA he says it is a very limited warranty and when I came back on here to read through the description, it looks like this warranty only overs the finger follower issue, so indeed it is very limited.
Not yet, have an appointment to drop it off later this week. I drive the car maybe once a week at most. I've seen the light before for various other minor things. I always had this idea that my car has a 10 YEAR ENGINE WARRANTY. When I brought it up to my SA he says it is a very limited warranty and when I came back on here to read through the description, it looks like this warranty only overs the finger follower issue, so indeed it is very limited.
The language in the letter sent to owners is "internal engine components".
The language in the letter sent to owners is "internal engine components".
Don't have the letter handy but this is how the warranty is described on the first page of this thread:
"Porsche will extend the warranty on the engine of all 991.1 generation GT3 vehicles in all markets with respect to failure modes related to this issue. The extension will provide coverage for 10 years from the original in-service date, or 120,000 total vehicle miles, whichever occurs first. (The base bumper-to-bumper warranty remains unchanged at 4 years or 50,000 miles for the US, as do all other warranty terms and conditions.) The warranty extension is fully transferable to any future owner. All US owners will be informed in writing and the change will be applied and processed with no additional owner action required. If a vehicle shows the described failure patterns (e.g., misfire at high revs and check engine light) and the inspection in the workshop shows the failure patterns, Porsche will replace the defective engine with a new engine having the latest parts. Porsche confirms that the issue is isolated to the 991.1 GT3, and that the 991.1 GT3 RS and the 991 R are not affected."
Sounds like they will cover engine and internal engine components RELATING to the finger follower issue only. Engine goes bad for any other reason won't be covered. I hope I am wrong.
Not yet, have an appointment to drop it off later this week. I drive the car maybe once a week at most. I've seen the light before for various other minor things. I always had this idea that my car has a 10 YEAR ENGINE WARRANTY. When I brought it up to my SA he says it is a very limited warranty and when I came back on here to read through the description, it looks like this warranty only overs the finger follower issue, so indeed it is very limited.
I would have it checked out. If you have misfires on any cylinder at high RPM (at least in my case), you might be experiencing the issue.
If so, they will change plugs and coil pack, if it happens again they will remove the head and check for the following scaring (see pic) which should result with a engine replacement.
Look closely at black coating being removed from finger followers. This is enough to cause engine faults at high RPMs.
Don't have the letter handy but this is how the warranty is described on the first page of this thread:
"Porsche will extend the warranty on the engine of all 991.1 generation GT3 vehicles in all markets with respect to failure modes related to this issue. The extension will provide coverage for 10 years from the original in-service date, or 120,000 total vehicle miles, whichever occurs first. (The base bumper-to-bumper warranty remains unchanged at 4 years or 50,000 miles for the US, as do all other warranty terms and conditions.) The warranty extension is fully transferable to any future owner. All US owners will be informed in writing and the change will be applied and processed with no additional owner action required. If a vehicle shows the described failure patterns (e.g., misfire at high revs and check engine light) and the inspection in the workshop shows the failure patterns, Porsche will replace the defective engine with a new engine having the latest parts. Porsche confirms that the issue is isolated to the 991.1 GT3, and that the 991.1 GT3 RS and the 991 R are not affected."
Sounds like they will cover engine and internal engine components RELATING to the finger follower issue only. Engine goes bad for any other reason won't be covered. I hope I am wrong.
In practice maybe a minor difference. I've not heard of any engine failures in the .1s other than finger follower wear. In my view though if an engine failure occurred due to bearings for example that should be covered. At least I would take that position with dealer/ PCNA. Best of luck, hope you get a satisfactory resolution.
I would have it checked out. If you have misfires on any cylinder at high RPM (at least in my case), you might be experiencing the issue.
If so, they will change plugs and coil pack, if it happens again they will remove the head and check for the following scaring (see pic) which should result with a engine replacement.
Look closely at black coating being removed from finger followers. This is enough to cause engine faults at high RPMs.
That debris has to go somewhere, and if there was a bearing failure in the engine Occam's Razor is your ally. The simplest answer is your friend. Remember Porsche started by replacing only the cam shafts and finger followers and a few engine fires later had to back up from this. The fact that you didn't have a misfire fault means nothing when you have a bearing failure due to debris in the lubrication system...
In practice maybe a minor difference. I've not heard of any engine failures in the .1s other than finger follower wear. In my view though if an engine failure occurred due to bearings for example that should be covered. At least I would take that position with dealer/ PCNA. Best of luck, hope you get a satisfactory resolution.
Oh good this sounds much better! Thanks, I'll see how it goes. I'm concerned that the car has no other symptoms and is drivable which leads me to think it's not an engine replacement issue but some other minor fault that's gonna cost me.
Not yet, have an appointment to drop it off later this week. I drive the car maybe once a week at most. I've seen the light before for various other minor things. I always had this idea that my car has a 10 YEAR ENGINE WARRANTY. When I brought it up to my SA he says it is a very limited warranty and when I came back on here to read through the description, it looks like this warranty only overs the finger follower issue, so indeed it is very limited.
From original post...
Update (12/06/2017): Porsche has decided to cover the entire 991.1 GT3 engine, even if the cause is not attributed to finger follower wear. From Porsche:
Effective at once, the limited warranty on all your vehicle's internal engine components continues for ten years from your vehicle's original in-service date, up to 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first.
Oh good this sounds much better! Thanks, I'll see how it goes. I'm concerned that the car has no other symptoms and is drivable which leads me to think it's not an engine replacement issue but some other minor fault that's gonna cost me.
i believe most of the cars have been "drive-able". That is no indication that you don't have the issue. Given they have tried plugs and coil packs (both of which resolved my issues) then I would think this would be next...
I was at the track yesterday with my 991.1 GT3 yesterday. I was happy with my driving, the car was running well, and I was bragging about how reliable the car is for track use. Then, in my last session of the day, on the second lap, I did a downshift from 3rd to 2nd, and instead of getting the usual glorious rev match, it sounded somewhat subdued, and when I went to throttle the power was substantially reduced. A couple seconds late I got a reduced power warning and the power was down to a fraction of normal. As I pitted in, I heard loud rattling noises from the back of the car, and bystanders heard them also. My mechanic happened to be at the track, listened to the engine for 2 seconds and said the engine was done, maybe a broken piston rod.
This is my second engine in the car, installed about 2.5 years ago. The first engine went 26K miles, including about 7K track miles. This new engine went only about 5K miles, and I estimate that less than 2K of those were track miles.
I was forgiving of the original engine failing, and appreciative of getting a replacement engine, which I assume had the design problems fixed. I'm rather disappointed that the replacement engine failed, and with a lot less miles than the original engine. I patiently broke in both engines according to the rules, replaced the engine oil more often than required by Porsche, drove the car pretty sedately on the road, and have been manually shifting the car on the track, usually shifting before 9K.
The replacement engine had an issue that it would sometimes bobble when idling, and then sometimes stall, which was kind of scary, because it could happen when pulling out of a driveway with oncoming traffic. The bobbling and stalling issue never generated any codes, and my independent shop couldn't diagnose the problem, so I was going to take the car to the dealer next week for them to evaluate. I always thought something wasn't quite right with the replacement engine, though under throttle it behaved just like the original engine.
I assume that I'll be getting another new engine under warranty - a new one, not a remanufactured one - and will appreciate it. But I'm starting to wonder if Porsche is capable to designing these engines to reach 9K, and I have some concern that the new engine may not be durable and could fail after the warranty expires in ~5 years. As an owner of several Porsches and something of a Porsche fanboy, I guess I'm a little disappointed with the whole situation ...
I was at the track yesterday with my 991.1 GT3 yesterday. I was happy with my driving, the car was running well, and I was bragging about how reliable the car is for track use. Then, in my last session of the day, on the second lap, I did a downshift from 3rd to 2nd, and instead of getting the usual glorious rev match, it sounded somewhat subdued, and when I went to throttle the power was substantially reduced. A couple seconds late I got a reduced power warning and the power was down to a fraction of normal. As I pitted in, I heard loud rattling noises from the back of the car, and bystanders heard them also. My mechanic happened to be at the track, listened to the engine for 2 seconds and said the engine was done, maybe a broken piston rod.
This is my second engine in the car, installed about 2.5 years ago. The first engine went 26K miles, including about 7K track miles. This new engine went only about 5K miles, and I estimate that less than 2K of those were track miles.
I was forgiving of the original engine failing, and appreciative of getting a replacement engine, which I assume had the design problems fixed. I'm rather disappointed that the replacement engine failed, and with a lot less miles than the original engine. I patiently broke in both engines according to the rules, replaced the engine oil more often than required by Porsche, drove the car pretty sedately on the road, and have been manually shifting the car on the track, usually shifting before 9K.
The replacement engine had an issue that it would sometimes bobble when idling, and then sometimes stall, which was kind of scary, because it could happen when pulling out of a driveway with oncoming traffic. The bobbling and stalling issue never generated any codes, and my independent shop couldn't diagnose the problem, so I was going to take the car to the dealer next week for them to evaluate. I always thought something wasn't quite right with the replacement engine, though under throttle it behaved just like the original engine.
I assume that I'll be getting another new engine under warranty - a new one, not a remanufactured one - and will appreciate it. But I'm starting to wonder if Porsche is capable to designing these engines to reach 9K, and I have some concern that the new engine may not be durable and could fail after the warranty expires in ~5 years. As an owner of several Porsches and something of a Porsche fanboy, I guess I'm a little disappointed with the whole situation ...
First, thank god for the engine warranty! Second, it sounds like a different problem entirely, which I guess falls under the category of "!@#$ happens." Still a bummer. I heard from a buddy a few days ago that a number of .2s have been failing at the track as well, but I think these 991s handle the beating pretty well. Nothing is perfect, but it sucks when your number is called. Keep us posted on the new engine.
First, thank god for the engine warranty! Second, it sounds like a different problem entirely, which I guess falls under the category of "!@#$ happens." Still a bummer. I heard from a buddy a few days ago that a number of .2s have been failing at the track as well, but I think these 991s handle the beating pretty well. Nothing is perfect, but it sucks when your number is called. Keep us posted on the new engine.
Rob I've heard rumor that Porsche isn't providing engines for the finger follower failure, but head rebuild kits. Can you comment on this as it would seem to go agains the agreement you and the COG came to with PCNA.
991.2's have been shim related. Still in the valve train. Maybe another COG?
Rob I've heard rumor that Porsche isn't providing engines for the finger follower failure, but head rebuild kits. Can you comment on this as it would seem to go agains the agreement you and the COG came to with PCNA.
991.2's have been shim related. Still in the valve train. Maybe another COG?
That is news to me, Jamie. Every failure I have heard about got a new or refurbished engine. No top end rebuilds. And sorry, I am retired lol.
First, thank god for the engine warranty! Second, it sounds like a different problem entirely, which I guess falls under the category of "!@#$ happens." Still a bummer. I heard from a buddy a few days ago that a number of .2s have been failing at the track as well, but I think these 991s handle the beating pretty well. Nothing is perfect, but it sucks when your number is called. Keep us posted on the new engine.
I was going from memory on mileages, and I now have accurate numbers: my first engine failed with 28K miles on the car, and the second engine failed with only 36K miles on the car, so the second engine lasted only 8K miles. The second engine had issues with bobbling and stalling at idle from the beginning, and those problems slowly got worse over time, so I think it was defective. I've asked the dealer whether the second engine was new or remanufactured. I'll post updates in this thread as I get them from my dealer.
I don't think these continuing engine failures in 991.1 cars are acceptable, and the engine warranty will become an issue as these cars start approaching 10 years in service. The engine warranty should be based on when the new engines go in, not when the cars went into service. And if the 991.2 cars are having engine failures and don't have extended warranties for the engines, that indicates that Porsche is overreaching with their engineering. Porsche shouldn't be attempting to wring 9,000 out of these engines if they can't make them reliable and durable. Dropping the limit to 8500 would greatly improve the safety margin and the engines would still scream plenty.
This whole situation makes me sad for owners who have cause to worry, and sad that Porsche is impacting their reputation for engineering excellence.
08-17-2020, 06:01 PM
