pitt911

yes the 720 S seems to be following the same path like 650 S, 675 LT
my biggest concern with McLaren, is not only depreciation but also reliability after warranty , and unfortunately this feeds back into depreciation, and it is hard to predict depreciation curve at present time

hf1

CAlexio

Great point. Unlike ferraris where the "special" version feels so different and "worth it" va the normal version, mclarens are really really good as a base vehicle. The 675LT is fantastic, but the 650s is almost equally so. Not sure how much further they will drop, but that engine and that chassis and suspension package is top notch... at $185k or less with some negotiation you've got a massive value.

sechsgang

my 650s spider was 170k with 13k miles, it's been stupid reliable and made me park/sell my 16 GT3rs...the newer stuff is even more ballistic. IMHO, more and more people are going to start trying out the cars and if Mclaren can pull some things together, tighten up production a hair and provide more lightweight products like the 600lt and Senna...they are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

Scrappy1972

While I've never owned or driven a 650S, I did have a 12C before my LT and I consider it to be giant leap in terms of performance, sound, aesthetics and overall driving dynamics. Aside form the familiar interior, it feels like a completely different car.

A Speciale may actually be closer in overall driving experience to a base 458 than the LT is to a 650/12c.

CAlexio

i would caution against lumping together the 12c and the 650s.. those two really do feel like different cars. I've driven 675LT Spyder on track and for road trips, and i agree, it's a very special all-round car. but the 650s isn't that far off. I guess i feel differently from you, in thinking that mclaren's "base" model is already so damn good, whereas Ferrari's really requires some "editing' to get right. I guess the used market prices should give us an indication of who's right.. maybe taking a look at the delta in used prices between regular and LT mclarens vs regular and Speciale Ferraris? Interesting area to explore actually.

737Drvr

I had a '16 650S. I really liked my 650S but am a Lamborghini entusiast at heart. I love the brand. So, I went back to the brand and traded my 650S for a Performante. No regrets. That being said, McLaren is on fire. The 720S, 600LT, and Senna are all awesome achievements and are/will be leaders in the segments they compete in. The Senna really has no competition. Just an incredible engineering feat. Everyone probably knows what the 720S can do. If you dont, take a look at drag times videos. His 720 hasn't lost a race yet. I think in a straight line it will take the Pista and GT2RS down. The 720 is punching above its segment. Even the mighty 918 would have problems beating it. This is not a dig on the other cars. Most of us would love to have any of them in our garage--especially the 918 for me. The 600LT will be awesome in its own right. I'm hearing accleration close to GT2RS numbers up to 120MPH, then the RS is pulling away. That puts it in 488 acceleration territory as well. It's a compelling alternative to a GT3RS at the same price point (this with the crazy ADMs going on).

As to the 650S. It was a great car! had one issue with a battery needing replaced but handled quickly under warranty. Other than that, was a solid car. At the time, it was the fastest car in its segment. It has acceleration on par with a 488. It's definitely not as track focused as an RS car but still fun. For the money now, the 650S is a bargain. It all come downs to taste, but I am a McLaren fan. They've come a long way in the short 7 years since they began producing cars again. McLaren is making the brands we all individually like better too--a win/win for us enthusiats. McLaren's drawbacks are depreciation, brand recogniton, and depreciation. Once they take care of the middle part of the eqaution, the other ends will slowly get better.

McLaren is the brand to watch. They arguably have the best tech (carbon tubs, suspension, engines to a degree if you don't mind FI) and are a viable alternative to the others. I wish them the best and will probably have another to keep the Performante company in the not too distant future.

Ducati1199

isv

yesyoucan

Matt, you know that's me in the black p1 right?

fastmd

My 650s spider was perfect and was much better than my 12c. I do feel my 675t spider is much better than my 650s. The 675lt for me is one of the best cars I have owned.

C.J. Ichiban

650S is like Porsche's 911 Turbo S. The all rounder. The 720 is the new version of that. So, since they will make thousands, eventually people will move onto the spider. And eventually they will make an LT. On the road- the 720 is really evolved and now McLaren finally has the infotainment that you expect in a 300k car. Keep in mind on pricing- anything past 350 for a 720 is the equivalent of exclusive nutty options. Guys pay 4900 to have a custom logo on a door sill. All the dainty options for cosmetic stuff (pinstriped wheel 6000) yeah you get nothing on those options. Carbon interior, cool paint, Alcantara seats. That's all you really need. That's a 330 car. We all know that guy who wanted to go nuts on a configurator and took a theme to level 15 and he specced a 250k 911 Turbo or a 185k targa. This is the same. The people attracted to mclaren LOVE the custom options.

650s/675 is a lot like 458/458 sp, on paper...hp and torque wise. But it steers different- due to a different steering rack. It also has a ton of different engine components (44% if memory serves from training) so it revs way harder (like a 911 vs a GT3) and the transmission is the most engaged (best noises) dual clutch because it uses a super aggressive fuel cut to smack the car into gear. So, driving them, no the 650S is not a 675. However yes on a raw dollar value car- the 650S is the best 180-210k car you can buy in terms of discount to msrp, comfort, speed, and exotic looks. At 60-70% of its original MSRP (300k) 3-4 years old (car debuted in 2014) it's done a lot better than standard exotic cars. You can buy extended warranties. The biggest issue with McLaren is who they installed as dealers in the last 6-7 years, and how they are spread out across the country. If you are a Porsche dude in Omaha you can drive to a store. Mclaren Chicago and Dallas, Denver and Scottsdale would be closest to you there. Which is far.

Back to car vs car:

The 2016 675LT is totally different in the 9/10ths and up effort level. It's simply the best braking feel, steering feel, suspension control (anti roll/anti dive) serial production car ever made at 9.5-10/10ths. The top 5 cars in this sense to me are the CGT, the 91-93 NSX, the 997 4L, 675LT and The 991 R.


We always use the RS as a yardstick- so here is 675 vs RS:

The 16 Gt3RS is way less precise, and heavier by about 9-10%, has a ton less HP (30%) but bigger tires. So the big tires make you feel secure through slow corners, because you can put power down and Not get wheel spin with the car loaded up on steering angle. The LT will break the tires loose in 2nd gear with steering angle. The RS's electric steering loses to the LT's hydraulic steering. The power to weight, the steering feel, and hydraulic suspension all favor the LT. Noise is a push because the LT makes a ton of sexy scary noises and you can shred tires for the kids. More squealing. Maybe the new suspension on the 2019 will bring it up a few notches but it's still not going to be 700hp and 2900 lbs. The rear steering means that on the limit, you do have a tiny bit of vagueness since the RS is reacting to your inputs and it's a little harder to snap the car into the slip angle, so you have to shove it out there and then saw it back and forth. The LT can be immediately snapped into place due to the suspension having so much grip and no additional body roll. This is REALLY important entering the first fast S At Sonoma. You turn in and apply left foot brake and the rear slides into the corner, with minimal steering wheel input after the fact, then you stomp the gas and the car holds the exact yaw angle you give it. No drama other than being terrified that you are essentially doing indoor kart techniques on a 670hp car at 100mph with a tire wall on your left...

The GT2RS is faster than the 675LT but as we all know that's the most bat**** uncorked Porsche has ever allowed a 911 to be. I can't wait to track mine. All this talk about turbo NA...forget it I'll take the fastest and lightest car I can get. The 720 is the new 650- hugely comfortable, but does not have the machine gun noises of the LT. I'd take a 720 road trip all day long before a 675. Track day though the 675 is more pure and focused on track stuff. The well specced 675's will always be in demand.

I do not consider the New Ford GT production status yet, although that's supposed to be amazing on track. So when I get to drive one
maybe their exotic pushrod suspension will win me over, until now It's a concept.

The Senna will obliterate any other Hypercar on track. As Nadeem knows, since him and I both have solid P1 experience on track days...the lightness of the senna is unrivaled. The P1 has so much power and not enough tires to really grip up at the track. Max lateral G is aided by the ground effect diffuser at big tracks (willow springs, turn 8 ; Thunderhill T1, Kink; Buttonwillow, Riverside) but at a place like Thermal with huge straights into hairpins, the brakes only have 245 fronts to lean on - compared to 305's on a 350R or 265's on RS/918. I've always been sour about that.

Senna is a race car. That's it. The downforce and power and lightness together means the car can brake 150-200 yards later than most cars into every corner. In the hands of anyone ballsy enough, in ideal conditions it will do IMSA RACE CAR laptimes or even a few seconds better. It's a full on GT3/ GTD race car on trofeos. Of course, this is why it's a 1M plus options car. No slicks needed. Just fresh tires that you will destroy very quickly.

Until the Project1/ Valkyrie come out no other car projects to have so much of an aero / lightness combo.

C.J. Ichiban

I'm amped when's the next track day

Serge944

C.J. Ichiban

With who? I might have to fly back from Phoenix straight back to Monterey. We have P1/F1 rally 10-14th