bigkraig

Hey, is anyone out there using the DSC Sport on a 991 GT3? Saw that Manifold was also looking for more info, so figured it was worth starting a thread on it.

This is the device: http://www.dscsport.com

I've heard great things about them on the 997 platform but since we have and upgraded PASM system, i'm curious how great the benefits are on our platform.

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

I have to install mine. Was planning on it this week!

qbix

Deleted

Macca

I have installed it and run 6 track days with it now plus 4000 road miles.

Its a very interesting product.

It certainly improves long distance road driving comfort in normal mode. It relaxes the dampers on constant throttle when there are no lateral loads then tightens everything up when going into a corner.

On the track I have determined around 0.3s benefit per 1 minute lap at my local track over the factory module but it does need some tuning depending on your circuit. The base map ships with the 991 variant is a pretty good start but the DSC agent down here has spent countless track days with our crew helping them set the system up to be more reliable on our local circuit and it does make a difference. The system works but reverting between tables (G, speed, brake) and applying different characteristics (firmness) to each individual shock accordingly. In theory this is wonderful and the system delay due to the limitations of the OEM shock are around 100ms, however in reality this translates to transition times between maps switching and dampers changing characteristics of 1s or so. This latent delay is the weakness and where the programming can be useful as if you have a specific situation (i.e. hard right hand tightening 90kmph corner end of fast up hill straight with a kink vmax 232kmph) like at our local track you can tune the system to work better with the limitations (i.e. under load uphill straight = speed table shocks full firm, then under brakes end of straight = brake table front shocks firm - but now the trick part trail braking off the brakes while turning in = G tables outside shocks firm). As you can see from my example three extreme transitions in less than 2s! The base system did not handle this so well and this situation occurs twice a lap at our local track.

Once programming changes were made (I can get the new map) it improved. The system does tend to make the steering and car feel heavier under loads (turning) as it stiffens the shocks etc but being an aircooled track guy I knida liked that. The DSC definitely made the car more stable over the hill (unloaded left hand corner over a rise) and into a number of the slower and faster corners. If your local track doesnt have massive transitional changes and had plenty of fast sweepers the system will work well out of the box. I ran 5 different tracks with the system and the faster more flowing tracks the system was great, just in the tighter more technical tracks it can get upset so needs some fine tuning the tables to allow smoother transitions between each corner of the cars behavior (i.e. the system uses a very rudimentary software to tune IMO, not overly user friendly and brakes the corners up to be four symmetrical quadrants like a square when I think the transitions between each corner of the car should be more gradual and thus a pattern like the back of an eveolope is more appropriate to bleed the transitions. Im not sure this will make any sense to you without seeing teh software.

For $1200 its a very reasonable investment to improve comfort for long touring between tracks and give you a 0.4-0.6s advantage per laps at most longer tracks. Tuned with improved settings that improvement could be greater. For me on my shorter tracks it is less but then the time between cars at the top of the group is also very small so the advantage can be useful. It works each wheel out individually so you will notice tyre pressures per wheel changing more frequently and with greater deviation than with the OEM PASM. Im still unsure how this translates to tyre wear or grip but so far seems fine. Its a 5 minute job to swap the units and there are no tools needed so you can flip between the OEM & DSC on the track to determine yourself. I trialed mine first before I committed to buy it so I am not giving biased info here because Ive invested. Some may not like the constant "live" tuning of the chassis and here Im a little on the fence and need some more seat time.

In summary and on early impressions the system is worth the investment and will improve your lap times and general enjoyment of the car but it will need some further mapping work to get the absolute best from it and Jeff Delio the DSC agent in NZ who is a US guy and supported race teams in USA is working very hard to improve the maps for the GT3 & GT4 and Im sure can share them. Some individuals may prefer a set system like the factory provides at the expense of faster laps. Everyone is different but for the investment I think its an interesting product to buy and try yourself. Many swear by it etc. I need some more seat time with it and to switch back my OEM unit to make a final conclusion, but at this time Im supportive of the benefits with a few criticisms that hopefully will be addressed with time...

GrantG

Good feedback, thanks Macca

bigkraig

Thanks Macca, sounds like i'll be giving it a try!

Beantown Kman

Good feedback Macca. Two questions:

I've never seen or used one of these devices. Is it capable of offering more than two maps? From your report above I'd think it would be nice if you could have one map for the street, one for tight and twisty tracks and a third for fast tracks with high speed sweepers. Possible?

I expect that a change in spring rates would require different maps altogether. Agree? Does the company even offer a choice of which maps you'd want?

bigkraig

My understanding is that you can pick between 3 maps. They're just files that you can upload from a laptop to the device and share with others, on the 997 thread they have a google drive with files.

Manifold

TPC is in my neck of the woods and I plan to give the DSC a try in the GT3 in the coming month. I'll report my findings.

I'm less interested in lap time improvement, and more interested in retaining handling which still feels 'natural' while coping with challenging track geometry. I think the PASM in the GT3 is good in that respect, except at my home track Summit Point. We'll see if the DSC is better ...

Beantown Kman

I posted my questions in haste. I just called DSC (TPC Racing) and spoke to Harris, Mike's son. The unit is a plug and play module that replaces the oem PASM module. It's located under the carpet in the trunk of the GT4. Probably the same location in the GT3.

The module comes preloaded with two maps. You can't have more than two maps because it is controlled using the PASM button in the car. However, they provide the software to tune and change all of the settings and then create custom maps by yourself. The software, and the level of control it provides, appears to be very robust.

I've never had much interest in aftermarket products of this type. But, after speaking with Harris and reading Macca's thoughts, I may be coming around. I will be at VIR next week for a couple of days of open track. Mike Levitas, the owner of DSC and TPC will be there, too. I'm looking forward to getting more information from him.

Todd B

I don't think anybody has said it, but the same module can go into the 991 or 981. So if you have 2 cars you can always switch it between the cars. You do have the reload the maps for the given car. TPC is about 10 mins from my house, so I've seen Mike programming modules and adjusting the maps. I've been wanting to pick a module up and try it, but I ran into some health issues last year (and that side lined things for a bit).

Drifting

Hopefully Porsche will offer more than just one suspension setting in the .2 GT3/RS (as all the other high-end car makers such as Ferrari, Mclaren, have all offered this for several years. Heck, even Corvette offers many different settings.

Porsche doesn't need turbos to compete with other supercar makers, just more than two chassis settings!

Manifold

Given the interest in DSC, what deficiencies do you all see with the standard PASM? I find it to be excellent at all tracks I've been to except Summit Point (main circuit), and plenty comfortable on the road in the softer setting.

The issue I have at Summit Point is that the car bounces too much or takes too long to settle in the brake zones of T1, T3, and T10, which screws up the corner entry unless I brake much earlier/softer than I'd like. If I brake too hard, it feels like the car wants to fly off the track! The same issue occurs to a lesser extent at T4. The character of the problem is a bit different in the softer vs firmer PASM setting, but the problem is generally there with both settings.

But I reiterate that the car is great at every other track I've been to with it - WG, VIR, Palmer, Shenandoah, Jefferson, Thunderbolt, and COTA (cousin's GT3).

Beantown Kman

While I can't comment on the alleged benefits of DSC from any first hand experience, I can tell you that the bouncing issues you experience at Summit Point are precisely what shock tuning is designed to eliminate. The purpose of the shocks is to keep the rubber in contact with the pavement. At relatively smooth tracks like VIR, the Glen and Palmer (I haven't been to the others) the oem dampers will probably work fine.

One benefit I can see with DSC is the ability to tune the shocks to adjust for handling issues at different tracks. From what I've been told, DSC provides the software to each customer that allows for custom tuning and creating your own maps. I don't think I would be interested in using DSC for a dedicated track car as there are plenty of good coil over packages available. But, for a dual purpose car, the DSC system claims to offer some advantages over the oem PASM system. I'm interested in finding out how well theirr shock tuning can compensate for the oem spring rates on the GT4 that some say are too soft, especially in front.

Manifold

I'd characterize the bouncing I've experienced at SP as 'high-frequency, medium-amplitude, causing reduced grip' in the braking zone for T1, but 'low-frequency, large-amplitude, causing the car to be unstable before the corner' at T3 and T10, and to a lesser extent T4. I'd chalk this up to something being wrong with the car, except that the car is good at other tracks.

If the DSC can match the PASM settings, and then allow tweaking from there, that would be good. I'd be reluctant to take a 'start from scratch' approach and have to spend a lot of time tuning the shocks, getting confused about cause/effect in the process and possibly chasing adjustments for a long time. I also want to keep the character of the car roughly the same as stock.

I do find the GT4 to be a bit softer than the GT3. That's probably why the GT4 feels more comfortable on the road. If we can get spring rates for both cars, we should be able to determine whether the relative softness is due to a difference in springs and/or dampers (though I believe the suspension geometry is different in the rear of the cars, so rear spring rate alone may not be enough info).