Setup numbers RS
10-29-2016, 12:14 AM
#316
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SanDiegoDavid, Are you running -3.2 or -2.5 in the front? Also, what you have pictured is swaybar endlinks with your mesh and springs. Do you know what your sways are set at?
Cheers!
Cheers!
10-31-2016, 11:48 AM
#317
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Went to Sebring Saturday.
As expected the front tires had 3 days on them and were unfortunately a lot slower than the fresh rears creating lot of understeer.
These front tires had 2 days at Sebring (Clockwise), 8 heat cycles @ -2.5 Camber and 1 day at Homestead (Counter clock wise), 4 heat cycles @ -2 camber.
The rears were chunking on both sides after 3 days, also the first 2 days with -2.5 and the last day at Homestead -2 camber, same as the fronts.
Sway bars full stiff front and rear all 4 days, including Saturday.
The rears where cording and chunking, but it seems to be useless to try and make them last 4 days as they had no grip left. Sometimes I will have to flip them left to right if I want to make it 4 days at Sebring I guess. Really had to drive around the loose rear the last day at Homestead last week. See pictures a few posts back of the chunked rears.
I made no change and put 2 new rear tires on before going to Sebring Saturday and it looks like they are OK after 1 day at Sebring @ -2 Camber rear.
Probably will cord and chunk again day 3 or 4, we will see.
Now I'm doubting to leave the fronts on for another day, or maximum two days.
The rears will become less grippy and it may balance the car out a bit but the tires will be a couple of seconds per lap slower and I'm nut sure if I could finish a weekend on the fronts.
The alternative is new fronts, that's should give me a fast car with these still OK rears, depending on how much daily driving I do between now and the next track day.
It could work out that all 4 tires are done at a rate of 3 days rear, 6 days front.
So maybe see (at a slower pace) how the fronts with now 4 days fall off along with the now 1 day old rears.
Or throw 4 tires on the car every 3-4 days but it wont be fast after the first 2 days anyway. The only way to always be fast is 4 new tires every 2 days $$$$.
If not $$$$$ than it means a fast car for 2 days, then slow trying to make it 4 days on the rears (Last 2 days very loose) or slow and pushy while using up the fronts with new rears.
Gotta pay to go fast.....
See pics of my 4 day old front and 1 day old rear.
As expected the front tires had 3 days on them and were unfortunately a lot slower than the fresh rears creating lot of understeer.
These front tires had 2 days at Sebring (Clockwise), 8 heat cycles @ -2.5 Camber and 1 day at Homestead (Counter clock wise), 4 heat cycles @ -2 camber.
The rears were chunking on both sides after 3 days, also the first 2 days with -2.5 and the last day at Homestead -2 camber, same as the fronts.
Sway bars full stiff front and rear all 4 days, including Saturday.
The rears where cording and chunking, but it seems to be useless to try and make them last 4 days as they had no grip left. Sometimes I will have to flip them left to right if I want to make it 4 days at Sebring I guess. Really had to drive around the loose rear the last day at Homestead last week. See pictures a few posts back of the chunked rears.
I made no change and put 2 new rear tires on before going to Sebring Saturday and it looks like they are OK after 1 day at Sebring @ -2 Camber rear.
Probably will cord and chunk again day 3 or 4, we will see.
Now I'm doubting to leave the fronts on for another day, or maximum two days.
The rears will become less grippy and it may balance the car out a bit but the tires will be a couple of seconds per lap slower and I'm nut sure if I could finish a weekend on the fronts.
The alternative is new fronts, that's should give me a fast car with these still OK rears, depending on how much daily driving I do between now and the next track day.
It could work out that all 4 tires are done at a rate of 3 days rear, 6 days front.
So maybe see (at a slower pace) how the fronts with now 4 days fall off along with the now 1 day old rears.
Or throw 4 tires on the car every 3-4 days but it wont be fast after the first 2 days anyway. The only way to always be fast is 4 new tires every 2 days $$$$.
If not $$$$$ than it means a fast car for 2 days, then slow trying to make it 4 days on the rears (Last 2 days very loose) or slow and pushy while using up the fronts with new rears.
Gotta pay to go fast.....
See pics of my 4 day old front and 1 day old rear.
10-31-2016, 01:35 PM
#318
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Welcome to Cup Life 
Seriously, thanks for being the designated beta tester. I'm adding uprated spring package but am waiting until you settle on a setting to make the change.
BTW, maybe time to try a set of Trofeo R's once just to see what kind of time you can lay down...
Seriously, thanks for being the designated beta tester. I'm adding uprated spring package but am waiting until you settle on a setting to make the change.
BTW, maybe time to try a set of Trofeo R's once just to see what kind of time you can lay down...
10-31-2016, 01:54 PM
#319
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think stiffer springs will be good, allowing for softer roll bars but there's always a give and take..
I think I'm pretty much done, I may go back to medium on the front bar, but that makes the car faster with new tires but too over steery when the rears get slower after 2 days.
The bars would be a fix to compensate for rears heat cycling out before the fronts but I doubt I feel like dicking around with the bars every other day and re-learn to drive it instead of just having the progressive loss of rear grip and then progressive less front grip after replacing the rears.
Maybe back to -2.5 rear camber, depends of this set hold up.
Trofeo's as AFAI have read are a bit faster but I like the ability to drive home on these tires.
I assume Trofeo's wear even like the Dunlops turning into slicks when they wear down. The Dunlops were about as fast as the MPSC2's so not worth the risk of driving home in the rain on slicks, there's a lot of 100MPH + stretches between Sebring and Palm Beach.
Still, if I can only get so few fast laps out of the MPSC's may be it worth throwing a set of Trofeo's at the car when I went through my inventory of MPSC's just to try.
I think I'm pretty much done, I may go back to medium on the front bar, but that makes the car faster with new tires but too over steery when the rears get slower after 2 days.
The bars would be a fix to compensate for rears heat cycling out before the fronts but I doubt I feel like dicking around with the bars every other day and re-learn to drive it instead of just having the progressive loss of rear grip and then progressive less front grip after replacing the rears.
Maybe back to -2.5 rear camber, depends of this set hold up.
Trofeo's as AFAI have read are a bit faster but I like the ability to drive home on these tires.
I assume Trofeo's wear even like the Dunlops turning into slicks when they wear down. The Dunlops were about as fast as the MPSC2's so not worth the risk of driving home in the rain on slicks, there's a lot of 100MPH + stretches between Sebring and Palm Beach.
Still, if I can only get so few fast laps out of the MPSC's may be it worth throwing a set of Trofeo's at the car when I went through my inventory of MPSC's just to try.
10-31-2016, 02:41 PM
#320
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by m3irish
SanDiegoDavid, Are you running -3.2 or -2.5 in the front? Also, what you have pictured is swaybar endlinks with your mesh and springs. Do you know what your sways are set at?
Cheers!
Cheers!
This weekend I took a couple of degrees out of the wing angle to help with understeer thru fast sweepers. This helped, but I'll will soften the front sway to improve the understeer more.
Car felt very good with nice progressive oversteer for trailing rotation, which you need to do a fair amount at Thermal.
Was able to pull off a new PB at Thermal, 2:18.67 on SC2. Temps 78-82. Overall, very happy with the new setup!
Last edited by SanDiegoDavid; 10-31-2016 at 10:46 PM.
11-01-2016, 02:02 AM
#321
Rennlist Member
Peter - here is my 2c worth. Im not an RS owner and I understand the tire wear characteristics of that car are quite different from a 991 GT3.
Firstly, the chunking. I dont think you can put that entirely down to set up. My experience suggest this can be down to a specific track, driving style or even a particular tire (heat, manufacturing issue etc).
Secondly. You have your front and rear bar on firm. I think you may be causing excessive oversteer which is becoming even more exaggerated with heat cycles. When the styre moves around laterally its more likely to chunk too.
Lastly, at your level and mostly on the same track I think its inevitable you will need to swap tires side to side for optimum longevity.
Four days is the most I get out of a set of MPSC2. Granted there is enough tread left for a full 1-2 days after that but Im loosing 2s a lap. If I could get 5 Id be very happy (20% less spendy). The fact remains if Im going to be 1-2s slower a lap I may as well buy a Lotus Exige S for half the money and have tires and brakes last four times as long for the same or similar track times. man logic!
My advice would be try the rear sway bar in the middle or the front in the middle, flip tyres after two days then when your run through these MPSC2 try a set of Tofeo R just as an experiment (I suspect you may find the rears wear just as fast if not faster - but they may also take the heat better and last another day before cycling - in the rain however they are a compromise).
Just a few ideas, but as I say Im a 991 GT3 driver and it would seem these are very different cars when it comes to suspension set up.
Firstly, the chunking. I dont think you can put that entirely down to set up. My experience suggest this can be down to a specific track, driving style or even a particular tire (heat, manufacturing issue etc).
Secondly. You have your front and rear bar on firm. I think you may be causing excessive oversteer which is becoming even more exaggerated with heat cycles. When the styre moves around laterally its more likely to chunk too.
Lastly, at your level and mostly on the same track I think its inevitable you will need to swap tires side to side for optimum longevity.
Four days is the most I get out of a set of MPSC2. Granted there is enough tread left for a full 1-2 days after that but Im loosing 2s a lap. If I could get 5 Id be very happy (20% less spendy). The fact remains if Im going to be 1-2s slower a lap I may as well buy a Lotus Exige S for half the money and have tires and brakes last four times as long for the same or similar track times. man logic!
My advice would be try the rear sway bar in the middle or the front in the middle, flip tyres after two days then when your run through these MPSC2 try a set of Tofeo R just as an experiment (I suspect you may find the rears wear just as fast if not faster - but they may also take the heat better and last another day before cycling - in the rain however they are a compromise).
Just a few ideas, but as I say Im a 991 GT3 driver and it would seem these are very different cars when it comes to suspension set up.
11-01-2016, 04:54 AM
#322
I told BBI to go -3.0 camber up front and -2.5 camber in the rear. I was going to have the sway bars set at medium front and stiff rear but I'm considering going full soft front since I'm getting stiffer springs....hmmm
11-01-2016, 10:26 AM
#323
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Peter - here is my 2c worth. Im not an RS owner and I understand the tire wear characteristics of that car are quite different from a 991 GT3.
Firstly, the chunking. I dont think you can put that entirely down to set up. My experience suggest this can be down to a specific track, driving style or even a particular tire (heat, manufacturing issue etc).
Secondly. You have your front and rear bar on firm. I think you may be causing excessive oversteer which is becoming even more exaggerated with heat cycles. When the styre moves around laterally its more likely to chunk too.
Lastly, at your level and mostly on the same track I think its inevitable you will need to swap tires side to side for optimum longevity.
Four days is the most I get out of a set of MPSC2. Granted there is enough tread left for a full 1-2 days after that but Im loosing 2s a lap. If I could get 5 Id be very happy (20% less spendy). The fact remains if Im going to be 1-2s slower a lap I may as well buy a Lotus Exige S for half the money and have tires and brakes last four times as long for the same or similar track times. man logic!
My advice would be try the rear sway bar in the middle or the front in the middle, flip tyres after two days then when your run through these MPSC2 try a set of Tofeo R just as an experiment (I suspect you may find the rears wear just as fast if not faster - but they may also take the heat better and last another day before cycling - in the rain however they are a compromise).
Just a few ideas, but as I say Im a 991 GT3 driver and it would seem these are very different cars when it comes to suspension set up.
Firstly, the chunking. I dont think you can put that entirely down to set up. My experience suggest this can be down to a specific track, driving style or even a particular tire (heat, manufacturing issue etc).
Secondly. You have your front and rear bar on firm. I think you may be causing excessive oversteer which is becoming even more exaggerated with heat cycles. When the styre moves around laterally its more likely to chunk too.
Lastly, at your level and mostly on the same track I think its inevitable you will need to swap tires side to side for optimum longevity.
Four days is the most I get out of a set of MPSC2. Granted there is enough tread left for a full 1-2 days after that but Im loosing 2s a lap. If I could get 5 Id be very happy (20% less spendy). The fact remains if Im going to be 1-2s slower a lap I may as well buy a Lotus Exige S for half the money and have tires and brakes last four times as long for the same or similar track times. man logic!
My advice would be try the rear sway bar in the middle or the front in the middle, flip tyres after two days then when your run through these MPSC2 try a set of Tofeo R just as an experiment (I suspect you may find the rears wear just as fast if not faster - but they may also take the heat better and last another day before cycling - in the rain however they are a compromise).
Just a few ideas, but as I say Im a 991 GT3 driver and it would seem these are very different cars when it comes to suspension set up.
From what I can read its pretty much opposite VS GT3 tire wear.
Chunking rears: All MPSC2 rears ended that way. Its RWS I think and Camber is not needed, not fixes it.
Excessive over steer: Only after the rears heat cycle out, mostly on throttle if I go middle rear front stiff the car pushes on new tires and is undrivable with new rears and old fronts (Like when you were in the car)
Rear full stiff: The outside edge of the tire wears more and chunks quicker.
Perhaps this is like having stiffer springs the Left Coasters are advocating.
Swapping tires left to right: On the rears will make them live a little longer, will try on this set. Fronts seem more even and last pretty good anyway.
To everyone, I'm no expert so just posting what I see / feel and what I think it may mean but we all need all the feed back from RS drivers, please keep posting.
11-01-2016, 10:29 AM
#324
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
But let me know stiffer springs are probably allowing you to drive softer bars. I tried a lot of Camber and it didn't do anything for the tire life and it just lets the car drive (Brake!) more on the inside part of the tire that doesn't have grippy rubber. I am very sure the front doesn't need that kind of camber and it drives so much nicer with just -2F.
11-01-2016, 10:31 AM
#325
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
-3.2 up front. Medium front sway, stiff rear.
This weekend I took a couple of degrees out of the wing angle to help with understeer thru fast sweepers. This helped, but I'll will soften the front sway to improve the understeer more.
Car felt very good with nice progressive oversteer for trailing rotation, which you need to do a fair amount at Thermal.
Was able to pull off a new PB at Thermal, 2:18.67 on SC2. Temps 78-82. Overall, very happy with the new setup!
This weekend I took a couple of degrees out of the wing angle to help with understeer thru fast sweepers. This helped, but I'll will soften the front sway to improve the understeer more.
Car felt very good with nice progressive oversteer for trailing rotation, which you need to do a fair amount at Thermal.
Was able to pull off a new PB at Thermal, 2:18.67 on SC2. Temps 78-82. Overall, very happy with the new setup!
Why the -3.2F? Are your fronts not lasting?
How many days on the ties with this setup?
Thanks for posting. Keep it coming please.
I'm still trying to experiment all OEM but of course interested in aftermarket setup.
11-01-2016, 02:17 PM
#327
Rennlist Member
The -3.2 was recommended by Joey, he felt like it would give the best wear. He put stiffer springs and was adamant that 911s don't need any toe, so zero toe. Three friends and I did a weekend of coaching with a Thermal member, Drake Kemper. We essentially had the whole track to ourselves. Did 270 miles and tire wear was even. So I'm very happy with the feel and wear.
11-01-2016, 02:20 PM
#329
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The -3.2 was recommended by Joey, he felt like it would give the best wear. He put stiffer springs and was adamant that 911s don't need any toe, so zero toe. Three friends and I did a weekend of coaching with a Thermal member, Drake Kemper. We essentially had the whole track to ourselves. Did 270 miles and tire wear was even. So I'm very happy with the feel and wear.
Zero toe front, same here. What about rear?
11-01-2016, 05:15 PM
#330
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
Thanks, I didn't see that front wear but I don't have springs.
Zero toe front, same here. What about rear?
Zero toe front, same here. What about rear?
He rolled my rear fenders a little and I I had no rubbing despite the significantly lowering of the rear.
I had slight bit of rubbing in the front liners, much improved after the Joey's setup.