Next GT3--expect sub-7:18 Ring time
01-14-2016, 10:55 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
The 991.1 Turbo S was 1 second slower than the 991.1 GT3 around the Ring.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
I highly doubt that the 991.2 C2S with a measly 420 HP, (and more weight), would beat a 991 GT3.
I don't even believe the reported 7:18 time for the 991.2 Turbo S, as part of that time was just calculated, not raced.
I do believe that the Ring time for 991.2 Turbo S will be faster than the 991.1 GT3 once they can properly time the .2 Turbo S on the Ring, later this year.
But it will be quite a while before a regular Carrera S turbo could best a GT3!
Last edited by Drifting; 01-15-2016 at 02:53 AM.
01-14-2016, 10:57 PM
#49
Drifting
Thread Starter
I wonder if it's not so much a deliberate strategy by pag to do this, as much as our collective cognitive inertia where we get very comfortable with the current generation, its design and tech and performance bounds, so much so that any departure from it with the next version seems radical, even heretical. Remember all the hoopla about the gt3's 9A1, PDK, electronic steering. It seemed unthinkable but now we barely notice. Same with the passing of air cooled engines etc etc etc. Many on here are now warming up to FI when that seemed anathema to the GT brand.
01-14-2016, 11:08 PM
#50
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Easy. Put a Turbo engine in a 991 GT3 and you will beat any GT3 of the past
with Close to zero (from a car manuf. pov) investment
About 991GT3 RS (NA)
being 300 600 Lbs lighter than competitors
F458 NA
Lambo 580 NA
isn t true
Would GT3 Turbo RS be lighrer than competitors
F 488
Mc 650
?
with Close to zero (from a car manuf. pov) investment
Uh, I don't think so.
The 991.1 Turbo S was 1 second slower than the 991.1 GT3 around the Ring.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
I highly doubt that the 991.2 C2S with a measly 420 HP, (and more weight), would beat a 991 GT3.
I don't even believe the reported 7:18 time for the 991.2 Turbo S, as part of that time was just calculated, not raced.
I do believe that the Ring time for 991.2 Turbo S will be faster than the 991.1 GT3 once they can properly time the .2 Turbo S on the Ring, later this year.
But it will be quite a while before a regular turbo Carrera could best a GT3!
The 991.1 Turbo S was 1 second slower than the 991.1 GT3 around the Ring.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
I highly doubt that the 991.2 C2S with a measly 420 HP, (and more weight), would beat a 991 GT3.
I don't even believe the reported 7:18 time for the 991.2 Turbo S, as part of that time was just calculated, not raced.
I do believe that the Ring time for 991.2 Turbo S will be faster than the 991.1 GT3 once they can properly time the .2 Turbo S on the Ring, later this year.
But it will be quite a while before a regular turbo Carrera could best a GT3!
maybe hybrid augmentation in the future... but the key to porsches (sports cars) today is their relative lightness compared to other so called performance marques like bmw, jag, audi, merc - ALL of those makers' sports cars are at least 300-600 lbs heavier in their current iterations
i think this is one big reason why porsches handle so much better and have such better feel
so yes they will undoubtedly go hybrid but that means motors and battery packs = more weight... for hp and torque produced per kg of weight added i think a turbo systems are more effective. obviously the nature of the additional power (torque vs hp, lag vs no lag) are other salient issues
i am sure PAG and PAG MS understands this oh so well... I do have faith they will produce as good a nex-gen product as possible weighing these complicated tradeoffs...
i think this is one big reason why porsches handle so much better and have such better feel
so yes they will undoubtedly go hybrid but that means motors and battery packs = more weight... for hp and torque produced per kg of weight added i think a turbo systems are more effective. obviously the nature of the additional power (torque vs hp, lag vs no lag) are other salient issues
i am sure PAG and PAG MS understands this oh so well... I do have faith they will produce as good a nex-gen product as possible weighing these complicated tradeoffs...
being 300 600 Lbs lighter than competitors
F458 NA
Lambo 580 NA
isn t true
Would GT3 Turbo RS be lighrer than competitors
F 488
Mc 650
?
Last edited by fxz; 01-15-2016 at 12:24 AM.
01-14-2016, 11:14 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
The point of my post (#48), is that a GT3 is much more than just an engine. It's lightweight, has more downforce, with significant improvements to the chassis, and PDK-S, compared to a regular 911 and that just putting a turbo engine in a regular 911, would not give that 911 the ability to beat a GT3.
01-14-2016, 11:14 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
I think we all need to realize that faster may make the daily drive quite boring. The speeds have exponentially increased for what the average man can purchase for a street car.
01-14-2016, 11:50 PM
#53
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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Last edited by fxz; 01-15-2016 at 12:06 AM.
01-15-2016, 01:17 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Uh, I don't think so.
The 991.1 Turbo S was 1 second slower than the 991.1 GT3 around the Ring.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
I highly doubt that the 991.2 C2S with a measly 420 HP, (and more weight), would beat a 991 GT3.
I don't even believe the reported 7:18 time for the 991.2 Turbo S, as part of that time was just calculated, not raced.
I do believe that the Ring time for 991.2 Turbo S will be faster than the 991.1 GT3 once they can properly time the .2 Turbo S on the Ring, later this year.
But it will be quite a while before a regular turbo Carrera could best a GT3!
The 991.1 Turbo S was 1 second slower than the 991.1 GT3 around the Ring.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
I highly doubt that the 991.2 C2S with a measly 420 HP, (and more weight), would beat a 991 GT3.
I don't even believe the reported 7:18 time for the 991.2 Turbo S, as part of that time was just calculated, not raced.
I do believe that the Ring time for 991.2 Turbo S will be faster than the 991.1 GT3 once they can properly time the .2 Turbo S on the Ring, later this year.
But it will be quite a while before a regular turbo Carrera could best a GT3!
The point of my post (#48), is that a GT3 is much more than just an engine. It's lightweight, has more downforce, with significant improvements to the chassis, and PDK-S, compared to a regular 911 and that just putting a turbo engine in a regular 911, would not give that 911 the ability to beat a GT3.
Drop a 650Hp - 650TQ TT in an RS and it would be crazy quick. Easy GT2RS.
AWD, despite weight would make it faster still, or at least in most DE drovers hands...
GT4, 991R labeled fun, analog due to slow.
01-15-2016, 01:39 AM
#57
Recall that AP was disappointed with the published 991.1 GT3 RS Nordschleife time - suggesting that conditions weren't ideal, car wasn't sorted, etc.
While I expect the .1 RS could do a better time, it's now in Porsche's interest to be conservative. When a turbo/hybrid GT car is introduced, Porsche will be sure to inform us "It's X.X seconds faster around the 'Ring than the 991.1 GT3 RS!"
While I expect the .1 RS could do a better time, it's now in Porsche's interest to be conservative. When a turbo/hybrid GT car is introduced, Porsche will be sure to inform us "It's X.X seconds faster around the 'Ring than the 991.1 GT3 RS!"
01-15-2016, 01:49 AM
#58
RL Community Team
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01-15-2016, 07:09 AM
#59
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This will always be an interesting conundrum given the foundation of a GT car is still the 911 body. So, with the direction PAG takes with the base 911 body, so goes the GT cars. Where competitors like the ACR, 570-675LT, Speciale/488, etc were built on bespoke platforms, GT cars will seemingly be hamstrung by PAGs quest to garner the street consumer who wants that comfort. So the Motorsport Team then has to look to the engine, suspension, etc components to substantially elevate the lower model 911. The other challenge is how extreme to take the GT cars while finding the balance of the perceived luxury PAG believes buyers of $150k+ cars want and performance to rival competitors. I'd love to see what the 991 RS would've been like with a Scud/Speciale-like interior and keeping to smaller wheels (maybe 19f/20r if they wanted to keep that rake) just for giggles.
01-15-2016, 08:25 AM
#60
What stops them getting more power out of NA engines? Are we breaching laws of physics? 10 years ago people would have laughed at the suggestion you could get 475hp from a flat 6 3.8.