GT3 2016 facelift
04-29-2014, 07:41 PM
#31
04-29-2014, 08:12 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
I keep hearing the facelift coming for 2016 but I would not be surprised if the 2015 models would already have it if they come late this year , or possibly early 2015 as a 2016 model year.
We have seen too many new facelifted cars getting tested for too long, I'm thinking the RS might get the facelift and this time there will be a 991.1GT3 and 991.2RS Maybe that's why we have not seen a more final RS prototype running around.
We have seen too many new facelifted cars getting tested for too long, I'm thinking the RS might get the facelift and this time there will be a 991.1GT3 and 991.2RS Maybe that's why we have not seen a more final RS prototype running around.
04-29-2014, 08:15 PM
#33
04-29-2014, 08:41 PM
#36
As Macca and others have been saying, we really don't know if there will be a gt3 or gt3 RS production beyond MY2015. Thus, the face-lift issue might be a moot point on these two models.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
04-29-2014, 09:01 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
I keep hearing the facelift coming for 2016 but I would not be surprised if the 2015 models would already have it if they come late this year , or possibly early 2015 as a 2016 model year.
We have seen too many new facelifted cars getting tested for too long, I'm thinking the RS might get the facelift and this time there will be a 991.1GT3 and 991.2RS Maybe that's why we have not seen a more final RS prototype running around.
We have seen too many new facelifted cars getting tested for too long, I'm thinking the RS might get the facelift and this time there will be a 991.1GT3 and 991.2RS Maybe that's why we have not seen a more final RS prototype running around.
PAG board will be very undecided on whether to run production of GT3 into 2015 calender year. Infact I suspect they will be very much undecided whether to continue the GT3 lineage beyond 2015.
Remember the GT3 replaced the RS moniker in 1999/2000 (96.1 GT3) after a 5 year absence (1995/6 993 RS) so maybe they may choose to await their new race program (960?) before re invigorating the brand with a new "race based" product. God knows they are busy enough as it is making cars for soccer mums. Its not like they arent making exceptional profits per unit or under performing as far as their shareholders are concerned....
04-29-2014, 09:12 PM
#38
911dev: I will not speak for Ringmeister, but I have pretty thick skin and can take criticism from the likes of you. But what I really have a hard time understanding is how someone - a user that has never contributed a dime to this forum - has been able to post 1506 times and never given a thought to becoming a paying member of this fine group! Step up and pay up for your membership! If I am going to be insulted, I want it to come from a dedicated & committed Rennlister, not a free-loader like you!
Salute to you!
Eduardo
Carmel
.
04-29-2014, 10:11 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Back on topic...
I am surprised people think Porsche will abandon the 911 GT3. Even if it is not raced, it is an established brand within the marque, and certainly one of the most profitable for both dealers and Porsche (especially since it no longer has a dedicated Mezger engine). It would also leave a hole in the lineup below the Turbo. I don't see it going away.
As for model year plans, it seems like the GT3 was on track (no pun intended) for 2014-15, with a year off for the first year of the facelift in 2016 (as in 2009), then two more years from 2017-18, followed by some run-out model before the 992. It still may happen that way, just with the volume split differently than originally planned between 2014 and 2015 GT3s.
Whatever is going to happen, I think it is already known within Porsche. I would expect plans are set 3-5 years out.
I am surprised people think Porsche will abandon the 911 GT3. Even if it is not raced, it is an established brand within the marque, and certainly one of the most profitable for both dealers and Porsche (especially since it no longer has a dedicated Mezger engine). It would also leave a hole in the lineup below the Turbo. I don't see it going away.
As for model year plans, it seems like the GT3 was on track (no pun intended) for 2014-15, with a year off for the first year of the facelift in 2016 (as in 2009), then two more years from 2017-18, followed by some run-out model before the 992. It still may happen that way, just with the volume split differently than originally planned between 2014 and 2015 GT3s.
Whatever is going to happen, I think it is already known within Porsche. I would expect plans are set 3-5 years out.
04-29-2014, 10:44 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Alan. I agree the model programme is likely running 5 years in advance.
I suspect the GTS will launch before Gen1 is finished. The GT3 would technically have been produced in Feb/March 2015 before bowing out. The GTS would have carried the model year to facelift.
GT3 planning is normally 3 years out. However the factory GT3 team has been removed form duties to focus on the current issues and thsi will have burned a 6 month hole in their development cycle. Its also very hard to plan model replacement revisions on powerplant and transmission if you are not yet certain they are 100% reliable. Until customers have used these cars extensively for intended purpose its hard to get feedback for evaluation and improvements. Its not being used in a motorsport program yet afterall.
Dont get confused that the GT3 program is particularly profitable in fiscal terms. It isnt but it has brand development and value proposition. The 991 GT3 for the tech and performance is what some would say under priced, but either way the $100 Million +++ PAG have had to spend to sort out this issue, even if spread over 2500 units would wipe out any potential margin.
If I were in PAG board position I would be seriously considering the future of the GT3 moniker. I may instead replace it with the GTS Gen2 facelift and bring that forward and dumb it down a bit to take up the gap. If I had visibility of the motorsport development and product plan I might instead choose to launch a new platform with motorsport potential before re introducing a "performance champion" for the street.
Remember the first break between the 1973 RS and 1990 964RS was 17 years. After that 5 years to the 993RS then another 4-5 years to the GT3. The recent product cycle for the GT3 is relatively new (last decade). Porsche can change things whenever they wish - a small product such as the GT3 with its tiny development team would be easy to disband if production capacity and resources were momentarily (4-5 years) required for building volume brand product such as Macan, Panamera and Cayenne for emerging markets.
We have a small number of Chinese members to the GT3 Action Group. What has become most interesting talking to them is that although PAG are opening something like 50 new dealerships this ear across these emerging markets the locals buying them are not in the least bit interested in the 911. Infact we get the feeling very few GT3 have actually been sold in China and none yet delivered. With developing world paved roads (pot holes, rough verges etc) it makes sense that the middle classes would not find the 911 a practical proposition.
VAG need to make a big decision soon. Its Porsche a sports car company or a Sporty SUV/Sedan company. Which brand will ultimately champion the budget for motorsport in the future may well determine the fate - Audi or Porsche. Porsche lets hope!
I suspect the GTS will launch before Gen1 is finished. The GT3 would technically have been produced in Feb/March 2015 before bowing out. The GTS would have carried the model year to facelift.
GT3 planning is normally 3 years out. However the factory GT3 team has been removed form duties to focus on the current issues and thsi will have burned a 6 month hole in their development cycle. Its also very hard to plan model replacement revisions on powerplant and transmission if you are not yet certain they are 100% reliable. Until customers have used these cars extensively for intended purpose its hard to get feedback for evaluation and improvements. Its not being used in a motorsport program yet afterall.
Dont get confused that the GT3 program is particularly profitable in fiscal terms. It isnt but it has brand development and value proposition. The 991 GT3 for the tech and performance is what some would say under priced, but either way the $100 Million +++ PAG have had to spend to sort out this issue, even if spread over 2500 units would wipe out any potential margin.
If I were in PAG board position I would be seriously considering the future of the GT3 moniker. I may instead replace it with the GTS Gen2 facelift and bring that forward and dumb it down a bit to take up the gap. If I had visibility of the motorsport development and product plan I might instead choose to launch a new platform with motorsport potential before re introducing a "performance champion" for the street.
Remember the first break between the 1973 RS and 1990 964RS was 17 years. After that 5 years to the 993RS then another 4-5 years to the GT3. The recent product cycle for the GT3 is relatively new (last decade). Porsche can change things whenever they wish - a small product such as the GT3 with its tiny development team would be easy to disband if production capacity and resources were momentarily (4-5 years) required for building volume brand product such as Macan, Panamera and Cayenne for emerging markets.
We have a small number of Chinese members to the GT3 Action Group. What has become most interesting talking to them is that although PAG are opening something like 50 new dealerships this ear across these emerging markets the locals buying them are not in the least bit interested in the 911. Infact we get the feeling very few GT3 have actually been sold in China and none yet delivered. With developing world paved roads (pot holes, rough verges etc) it makes sense that the middle classes would not find the 911 a practical proposition.
VAG need to make a big decision soon. Its Porsche a sports car company or a Sporty SUV/Sedan company. Which brand will ultimately champion the budget for motorsport in the future may well determine the fate - Audi or Porsche. Porsche lets hope!
04-30-2014, 02:39 AM
#45
