stevecolletti

I never said VW couldn't market.
As Macca said, it's a different Lambo... and it's becoming a different Porsche.

Mike in CA

I've read that Piech isn't inclined toward F1. Too expensive and not a direct enough connection between the technology in the race cars and the road cars. But who knows.

I'm thinking that in the short run he will let Audi and Porsche go at each other with diesel tech versus DFI petrol or petrol/hybrid. Maybe the winner gets to carry the LMP1 torch forward. As you say, it could be epic.

Macca

Steve. Im jealous. Bobs based in the US these days I believe like many Kiwi Motorsports engineering greats. You own/owned a '69 Miura S? Big respect my friend that's a dream car (well from here it is anyhow).

Who did that to Lambo? Les Boys do cabaret...Piech of course! Must have though up that stroke of genius about the same time as the Veyron whilst mummy passed him the soap in the bathtub LOL! I know totally unfair and unwarranted, probably a damn lovely bloke etc but we gotta get us some fun on these boards aye! You know us Kiwis we dont take much too seriously but we can fix an overhead cam chain with a pair of pliers and a stainless steel timber nail...

Mike in CA

Point taken. Just saying that purity as a concept is great, right up until the point that you can't sell enough cars to keep the company afloat, which is what almost happened to Lambo. I guess we coud argue whether it was product or marketing, but marketing only takes you so far. You've got to have a product people actually want. Something about "the customer is always right".......

BTW, I don't know what it was like to drive, but the Miura was IMO one of the most beautiful automotive shapes ever. You were fortunate to own one.

stevecolletti

Thanks Macca,
His shop was in Phoenix - he told me, "with all the shunts I've had, I now need a warm dry climate". Great guy. He was pretty darn businesslike until I asked him a question about the early days. It was like a movie... he got a gleam in his eye, with a big smile and I watched the decades drop... totally weird, but completely true. I haven't heard anything about him in the last 2-3 years, though.

It was my dream car. I bought it in 94 and spent 6+ years restoring/upgrading it - it always takes longer and more money than you think. Sold it in 2008 (good, but not perfect timing) - it just wasn't reliable enough to drive with any regularity (unlike the wife's Dino). But when it ran, it was brilliant! I wish I had a recording of it going through the tunnel in downtown Monterey.
The current owner has been trying to sell it... last I heard for $650K (http://www.classicitaliancarsforsale...ghini-miura-s/)

That's what got me into the 997.1RS.. that same desire to have a "race car built for the street" - there have never been many cars like that, and it's hard to see the new car get so far away from what is raced - that's my perspective and where I'm coming from.

stevecolletti

I actually couldn't agree more; a company needs to survive - it's just that there are multiple ways to kill a company.

I've always loved Porsche's race cars. The street cars took me much longer to warm up to (I'm not a rear-engine fan). Historically, the great thing about Porsche has been that they've always built cars for enthusiasts. Before they started selling tons of Cayennes and Panameras they were still the most profitable car company in the world - and they managed to maintain this while still providing a number (<5% of total production) of fairly hardcore product line to enthusiast customers. It's hard to see how that has become less possible with the additional profits that the Cayenne/Panamera/et al provide.
I worry that Porsche may be losing its 'soul'.

When it ran, it ran brilliantly. Loud, quick, flat and good handling (w/ modern tires). It was even fairly comfortable for long trips.
It was not a lot of fun in the city. I once heard Miura ownership described as similar to owning a business jet, you taxi until you can get it on the highway or open road - a better description than I can come up with.

As beautiful as the design was, it had the most amazing details - things that would disappear into the shape until you looked for and at them.. While restoring, I could stare at the most ridiculous things for hours.
I got lucky on the timing.

Macca

Steve, you sound like a man that needs to reinvest the proceeds from that beautiful Miura you created into a 1973 911 RS. Its far more reliable too. Its almost impossible these days to find anyone making a "race car built for the street". God knows Ive got a many 10,000s of reasons invested in my 993 to prove that its not an easy feat. Essentially a race car and a road car are so different in concept today with what the consumer and legislators are requiring form a road car that never the twain shall meet (not unless you wish to spend some serious coin). You really have to go back to the days when people expected less from their road cars and racing was a simpler sport many could enjoy to get that experience IMHO. The 1973 911 RS does it in the brief experience Ive had in one and the 1992 964RS gets close for its generation too. The 996.1 GT3 was a reasonable facsimile but truth be told weve been moving down the road towards todays 991 GT3 for a while now and even with the 991 GT3RS I think honestly this is the place where the real race/track day enthusiast has to realise you need two different instruments to achieve the goal.

I lament the passing of the air cooled engine. I love the way it ticks after Ive given it a proper hiding and the smell of warm oil that continues to circulate through thee many pipes after it turned off. I lament the small footprint and light(ish) weight of the original concept up until the 996 - its no bigger than a modern mini, such gorgeous lines, the door that makes the sound of a bank vault door when closed and the miracle of packaging layers of decades of improvements often ontop of each other!

I have a unique appreciation of thee 991 GT3 because like many others here I dropped out of the "next newest best porsche" game back with the 993 (and briefly the 996.1 GT3 just to make sure I understood my decision). I have no axe to grind. The deposit if refundable and I expected tech and PDK in this iteration. Its a leap of faith sure, but its not great drama if I dont like it, it gets sold and I go buy something older. For me this new GT3 represents the future of Porsche. Ill be honest and say i dont have so much faith in the future of Porsche (however do not assume I mean the 991 GT3) but Im going to put my money where my mouth is and give this a go. Im older now than I was and I my needs have changed. To me this GT3 is a great overall package for a guy in his 40s that enjoyed all the drama of the hard edged versions in his 30s but now needs a platform that can over a wider range of bases with some aplomb. Heck Id fit rear seats in the back with belts so I could stuff it full of luggage and go travelling in the damn thing or run a 5 day Targa style road race if i thought it was possible. Of course I sill have an old one as well so Im safely covering my bases.

Its a nice interlude to interact with someone who is both well measured, eloquent and has had some very exotic and interesting previous car ownership experiences. I hope teh 997.1 GT3 serves you well for a long time, you now have something more unique than it was three weeks ago and 10 times more reliable than the Miura so you should be a happy camper for a long time yet. Theres not much we can do about the future its out of our control but we can always buy and enjoy something form the past....

Bill_C4S

Car Mag (UK) hit the stands yday in GB...and had this update on Gallardo:

"The next Audi R8 triggered an internal punch-up at VW. An aggressively-priced, volume boosting twin turbo V6 version was iced for trading on Porsche turf, while extremists will be denied an 'R8 Ultra' - with high carbon fibre content, optional RWD and high-output 340 and 400 bhp 2.5-litre engines - would have conflicted with Lamborghini. Project AU724/725 will again be twinned with the Gallardo and powered by a mix of V8 and V10 engines."

Macca

Thanks for that interesting except Bill. Looks like the machine is starting to organise itself into the Goliath it has become....

aussie jimmy

muira. speechless.
i once saw 2 in the same room, and was floored.

Bill_C4S

+1

Still gorgeous.

stevecolletti

The early RS is exactly the car I considered back in 08-09, but as I said, the rear-engined cars never really appealed to me (I know the 08 RS is rear-engined). What I wish I'd done was 'stretched' a little (ok, a lot) more before 904s got to be crazy money.

Being relatively late to Porsche street cars, the air-cooled engine was a unique novelty to me. I was sorry to see it go (all the history), but it wasn't what made a Porsche to me.

I understand your position on the new car. I'm sure the 991 version will be fast and comfortable (and high-revving, naturally aspirated). I lament the personality change with the new GT3 (and the links to motorsport) as you do the loss of the air-cooled engine. One of the things that I really like about the .1RS is that I can look at the parts bin from the GT3 Cup, GT3R, and even the GT3 RSR for upgrades to the car... that race-heritage link has been front and center.

As you said, time moves forward, though I do miss the days when cars were built for the consumer, alone. Today, automakers have to appease too many masters, where the consumer is often last in line.

Z356

When I look a Piech, I feel warm & fuzzy! See my comments on Piech here:

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...-expect-3.html

Macca, you are loosing it!

It's official, you lost it!

I leave you with an exclusive, never-before-seen photograph of F. Piech wearing a casual hat. Photo was taken on the day he went to his first meeting with Porsche's Board of Directors after the VW's takeover was finalized. He looks fresh and relaxed after a long bubble bath...yet determined to do the right thing! Go Ferdie!

Saludos,
Eduardo

cbweaver1

All of the above to include the link in #28 are threads worth reading. Well done gentlemen.

TRAKCAR

I'm so glad I subsribed to this thread!