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Congrats to the entire team. Great accomplishment.
To the detractors -- why? Who cares about excuses a), b) or c) as to why other cars aren't as quick; or reason d), e), f) as to why this car is helped by tires, drivers, "home" advantage or whatever.
Progress is blistering at the moment on many fronts. Looking forward to the next leap. For now, tip of the hat.
To be honest, I really don’t think anyone is bashing the .2 RS. It is a great car and the new “best GT3” variant. But the performance gap between the .1 and .2 is a combination of factors, and some of those factors (such as tires) are of interest to many .1 owners, since it is an easy way to get some of the performance of the .2. Of course it won’t completely close the gap, or even 50%, but it is still of interest. I am just as interested in the new tires on the .2 GT3 for my .1. No other axe to grind. Just interested for the performance gains.
So does the .2 GT3RS have "N3" spec tires? Or does it use the "N2" from the GT2RS?
No, it is a new tire - Cup 2 R. From the release:
At the Nürburgring the 911 GT3 RS was equipped with the latest generation of Michelin Pilot Sport tyres. Optimised especially for track day use, the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R is fully compliant with relevant EU and US law. The tyre (265/35 ZR 20 front and 325/30 ZR 21 rear) can soon be ordered at every Porsche Centre and selected dealers or tyre fitters. Its approved fitments include 911 GT3 RS and 911 GT2 RS.
As someone who studies this stuff, in my opinion one of the reasons for such a difference in times lately is the level of aggressive driving. Tire compound is improving a lot and the track layout is quicker too but I am noticing an increase in "attacking the track" that has not previously been displayed. The drivers are going all out, theres a few mistakes in the video but the amount of push to the limit is really impressive.
I couldn't agree more. This was definitely a more ***** to the wall lap that I'm use to seeing. Estre is lifting wheels in many corners, in a rear engine car with a resurfaced, cut and smoother Nordschliefe. That is as aggressive as I've seen in a street car, prove me wrong.
To be honest, I really don’t think anyone is bashing the .2 RS. It is a great car and the new “best GT3” variant. But the performance gap between the .1 and .2 is a combination of factors, and some of those factors (such as tires) are of interest to many .1 owners, since it is an easy way to get some of the performance of the .2. Of course it won’t completely close the gap, or even 50%, but it is still of interest. I am just as interested in the new tires on the .2 GT3 for my .1. No other axe to grind. Just interested for the performance gains.
The new GT3 RS is awesome. No doubt about it.
The biggest difference is the motor... the dyno's are proving it... making 455 - 460 RWHP and 330 ft lb's of TQ... more than .1 RS' with Full Exhaust... and that's bone stock! The Tq curve is subtantial. Can't wait to see some dyno's of the .2 RS
The tires are absolutely improving, but now with 20" Hoosier's...More people will be able to run the OEM sizes (but the RS obviously would have to change to 20's). Frankly the N2 GT3 .2 Cup 2 tires, are marginally better if at all than the .1 tires, Porsche took a very conservative approach with the new Michelin's, at 7/32... they're almost like a full tread street tire. I for one wished the .2 Cup 2's were more like the ZR1/Z06 compound tires... which are significantly more aggressive and molded to 5/32 out of the box. Sounds like these new Cup 2 R's may be closer to the ZR1 compound, or even more aggressive yet!
To beat the Manthey car by almost 20 seconds... shows you the difference in the .2 motor and chassis enhancements.
I love this photo... look at those 4 laps!
Best Regards,
Dave
Last edited by SCCAForums; 04-21-2018 at 02:37 AM.
The biggest difference is the motor... the dyno's are proving it... making 455 - 460 RWHP and 330 ft lb's of TQ... more than .1 RS' with Full Exhaust... and that's bone stock! The Tq curve is subtantial. Can't wait to see some dyno's of the .2 RS
The tires are absolutely improving, but now with 20" Hoosier's...More people will be able to run the OEM sizes (but the RS obviously would have to change to 20's). Frankly the N2 GT3 .2 Cup 2 tires, are marginally better if at all than the .1 tires, Porsche took a very conservative approach with the new Michelin's, at 7/32... they're almost like a full tread street tire. I for one wished the .2 Cup 2's were more like the ZR1/Z06 compound tires... which are significantly more aggressive and molded to 5/32 out of the box. Sounds like these new Cup 2 R's may be closer to the ZR1 compound, or even more aggressive yet!
To beat the Manthey car by almost 20 seconds... shows you the difference in the .2 motor and chassis enhancements.
I love this photo... look at those 4 laps!
Best Regards,
Dave
I agree, Dave. The motor plays a huge roll. A lot more torque to get the car out of the corners.
Interesting to look at the data. The 991.1 RS stands out as both late (because of 991.1 GT3 engine issues presumably) and slow. It's tempting to suggest that the 991.1 RS simply had a bad lap, but the fact that even the significantly modified Manthey would be slightly slower than trend indicates otherwise. I suspect the real issue was the delay- if you put a time of ~7:17 for the 991.1 RS in 2014 or even 2015 when it was probably supposed to release originally it would look quite good.
Still not as good as the 991.2 RS, however, which has clearly moved the game on. It's by far the biggest improvement yet over the model it's based on, and the 991.1 GT3 itself was a huge step for a mid-cycle refresh. The result is that Porsche's GT cars are getting faster at a significantly faster rate than ever before.
In the RS's case this seems in part due to a page stolen from the Manthey playbook. Manthey primarily used magnesium wheels and a significantly revised suspension to find close to 10 seconds over the 991.1 RS. For the 991.2 Porsche fit a heavily revised suspension (compared to the 991.2 GT3) as standard, including not only much higher spring rates but also rose joints. They then fit the magnesium wheels as an option with the Weissach package, effectively baking in the 10 seconds Manthey found in addition to the other changes they normally make. Taken together with even hotter tires it seems to have allowed Porsche to find between 5 and 10 seconds in addition to the normal improvements (from the motor, etc) that we would have expected based on previous performance. Impressive results...
I don't think there is any haterade aimed at the 2019...we just don't have any experience driving them yet and as we have collectively all had some experience in the 2016RS by now as driver or passenger...just a big jump on the clock.
While it is obviously an amazing laptime, I think it's a real shame that they have used the Cup2 R tyre on the .2 3rs. Aside from the headline, personally I'd be far more interested to see what the impact of chassis changes are on the car rather than the simply due to a hotter tyre. In particular the .1 to .2 gt3 and rs, it would be far more informative to have used the same tyre imo.
The biggest difference is the motor... the dyno's are proving it... making 455 - 460 RWHP and 330 ft lb's of TQ... more than .1 RS' with Full Exhaust... and that's bone stock! The Tq curve is subtantial. Can't wait to see some dyno's of the .2 RS
The tires are absolutely improving, but now with 20" Hoosier's...More people will be able to run the OEM sizes (but the RS obviously would have to change to 20's). Frankly the N2 GT3 .2 Cup 2 tires, are marginally better if at all than the .1 tires, Porsche took a very conservative approach with the new Michelin's, at 7/32... they're almost like a full tread street tire. I for one wished the .2 Cup 2's were more like the ZR1/Z06 compound tires... which are significantly more aggressive and molded to 5/32 out of the box. Sounds like these new Cup 2 R's may be closer to the ZR1 compound, or even more aggressive yet!
To beat the Manthey car by almost 20 seconds... shows you the difference in the .2 motor and chassis enhancements.
I love this photo... look at those 4 laps!
Best Regards,
Dave
I am sure the motor plays a part, but over 20 seconds difference between .1 and .2 cannot be explained by the motor. For example, compare the GT2 RS to the .2 GT3 RS. The extra 150 HP of the GT2 RS was only good for 10 seconds over the .2 GT3 RS. These two cars compare pretty well otherwise. This comparison also eliminates track changes and improved tires. Even aero of the two cars is comparable. But we are holding all those variables constant except the motor, and there’s only 10 seconds for 150 hp. I look at this and conclude there’s maybe 6 or 7 seconds difference between the .1 and .2 GT3 RS attributed to the motor. The rest is attributed to tires, aero, suspension and Ring track changes.
04-20-2018, 11:41 PM
