"Clubsport" build underway
06-13-2018, 11:16 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, a lot going on for sure, I just need to get more familiar with it's typical behavior. I'm sure seat time will cure most of it. 
I told myself this would be an "occasional" track car, but after one weekend, it's like an addiction already. Need more.
I told myself this would be an "occasional" track car, but after one weekend, it's like an addiction already. Need more.
06-14-2018, 12:00 AM
#77
Rennlist Member
I've spent a lot of time re-researching the RWS and PTV functions this car has, both of which can't be disabled that I know of. In the 2 slowest corners where I felt a lot of inconsistency, which were still 50mph or higher, I think was actually from a combination of the RWS and PTV. RWS from 50mph turns with the front tires, which adds wheelbase and stability, i.e. some understeer, or at best neutrality, however, I think what I was feeling was the tug at the inside tire from PTV. PTV, under hard braking and initial turn-in, gives a tug of brake to the inside tire to help rotate that car, and I think that is what I was actually feeling and what I didn't like. I get why they do it, it let's them get away with less locking of the diff on coast and turn-in, so good for street driving, etc., but then on track the PTV helps it get into the corner. From 75mph the PTV supposedly phases out, and is completely off at 100mph, which makes sense, because it would make the car unstable at speed. I can say, the car felt fine for faster corners at turn-in....it was only in the slow corners with hard braking (and some trailbraking), where the car does a weird pitch into the corner.
Am I the only person who feels this?
Regardless, it feels a bit too contrived to me, and while I'm sure it works and the system together makes us all faster, I just don't like that I can't control it. It made the car feel overly loose for a second, which then I made worse by slightly lifting, because I had no idea what was going on. Kinda weirds you out the first time you feel it. After my first 2 sessions, I got more used to it, and was able to get more comfortable. Even then though, once the car begins to slide, you can still feel the toe moving (atleast back to center), which still feels weird. I know I'm nitpicking, because the car if freakin amazing, but I skipped the .1, so the computer gizmos are still all new to me.
Between the RWS, PTV, and the mechanical LSD, just a lot going on back there, especially when you turn off all the nannies, you can really feel it change the behavior of the car. I'm just not used to it totally yet.
I actually asked my service advisors at Porsche if there was a way to "lock" the RWS in the default position. I thought I read that in Europe they had some function like that for snow or bad road conditions. Who knows, can't hurt to ask.
Am I the only person who feels this?
Regardless, it feels a bit too contrived to me, and while I'm sure it works and the system together makes us all faster, I just don't like that I can't control it. It made the car feel overly loose for a second, which then I made worse by slightly lifting, because I had no idea what was going on. Kinda weirds you out the first time you feel it. After my first 2 sessions, I got more used to it, and was able to get more comfortable. Even then though, once the car begins to slide, you can still feel the toe moving (atleast back to center), which still feels weird. I know I'm nitpicking, because the car if freakin amazing, but I skipped the .1, so the computer gizmos are still all new to me.
Between the RWS, PTV, and the mechanical LSD, just a lot going on back there, especially when you turn off all the nannies, you can really feel it change the behavior of the car. I'm just not used to it totally yet.
I actually asked my service advisors at Porsche if there was a way to "lock" the RWS in the default position. I thought I read that in Europe they had some function like that for snow or bad road conditions. Who knows, can't hurt to ask.
maybe the trick is to go >75mph
ive never felt RWS, I just feel front grip. Maybe my *** is number then yours..
06-17-2018, 12:59 PM
#82
Three Wheelin'
...however, I think what I was feeling was the tug at the inside tire from PTV. PTV, under hard braking and initial turn-in, gives a tug of brake to the inside tire to help rotate that car, and I think that is what I was actually feeling and what I didn't like. I get why they do it, it let's them get away with less locking of the diff on coast and turn-in, so good for street driving, etc., but then on track the PTV helps it get into the corner.
06-18-2018, 11:04 AM
#83
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I had my buddy, who owns an insanely fast, widebody, full aero, V8 miata build, that is usually one of the fastest cars on track wherever it goes, get some video from behind me so I could see the attitude of the car at speed. Even he was shocked at how fast the .2 is. Besides the straights, where it obviously still has a bit of an advantage (414 wheel HP and 2400 lbs), the cars have similar pace. These things are so fast, that traffic is always an issue, but even then, we turned a couple of 1.11 laps in traffic where we got held up by a couple seconds easily, which is pretty bonkers for 90+ degree heat. Also, the slicks are so sticky that grabbing too much apex curb actually upsets the car on throttle in both our cars, so just nipping the apex was the fastest technique.
At a small track like Putnam, I need to go up on a member day to turn laps without traffic to see what this thing will really do. Next time out, need to keep front tire pressures a bit lower, try rear bar in full stiff, and play with shock settings. The car had a little more understeer on the Cup2's.. The Pirellis had 275/315 tires, where the Cup2 have a little less front tire with 245/305. I felt the PTV a lot more on Cup2, and partly because I think it was working harder to get car into the corner because of the more understeer it had. Maybe if I can free the car up some more, less interference will be felt from RWS and PTV. Who knows.
After reviewing our data overlay from our 1:09 and 1:10 laps, it was clear I was pretty conservative in terms of my driving, lots of time left in the brake zones. Watch at around the 4:00 minute mark, where you see the car make mid-corner adjustments with not much steering input on my part.....I can only think that is RWS doing it's thing. Kinda weird.
At a small track like Putnam, I need to go up on a member day to turn laps without traffic to see what this thing will really do. Next time out, need to keep front tire pressures a bit lower, try rear bar in full stiff, and play with shock settings. The car had a little more understeer on the Cup2's.. The Pirellis had 275/315 tires, where the Cup2 have a little less front tire with 245/305. I felt the PTV a lot more on Cup2, and partly because I think it was working harder to get car into the corner because of the more understeer it had. Maybe if I can free the car up some more, less interference will be felt from RWS and PTV. Who knows.
After reviewing our data overlay from our 1:09 and 1:10 laps, it was clear I was pretty conservative in terms of my driving, lots of time left in the brake zones. Watch at around the 4:00 minute mark, where you see the car make mid-corner adjustments with not much steering input on my part.....I can only think that is RWS doing it's thing. Kinda weird.
Last edited by Mvez; 06-18-2018 at 07:25 PM.
06-28-2018, 09:35 AM
#84
Did you get to run any laps at Putnam with your car stock? If so what were your times?
I have a new GT3 also and got to run at Putnam last weekend. Only could manage a 1:18 and a bunch of 19's. I'm sure a better driver would set some faster times.
I run the same lap times with my 2017 Turbo, I was kind of expecting to be a bit faster in the GT3, maybe it will take some time to get used to it.
I'm thinking about trying a set of slicks, I see Tire Rack has them for the stock size wheels now.
Thanks
I have a new GT3 also and got to run at Putnam last weekend. Only could manage a 1:18 and a bunch of 19's. I'm sure a better driver would set some faster times.
I run the same lap times with my 2017 Turbo, I was kind of expecting to be a bit faster in the GT3, maybe it will take some time to get used to it.
I'm thinking about trying a set of slicks, I see Tire Rack has them for the stock size wheels now.
Thanks
06-28-2018, 10:39 AM
#85
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Did you get to run any laps at Putnam with your car stock? If so what were your times?
I have a new GT3 also and got to run at Putnam last weekend. Only could manage a 1:18 and a bunch of 19's. I'm sure a better driver would set some faster times.
I run the same lap times with my 2017 Turbo, I was kind of expecting to be a bit faster in the GT3, maybe it will take some time to get used to it.
I'm thinking about trying a set of slicks, I see Tire Rack has them for the stock size wheels now.
Thanks
I have a new GT3 also and got to run at Putnam last weekend. Only could manage a 1:18 and a bunch of 19's. I'm sure a better driver would set some faster times.
I run the same lap times with my 2017 Turbo, I was kind of expecting to be a bit faster in the GT3, maybe it will take some time to get used to it.
I'm thinking about trying a set of slicks, I see Tire Rack has them for the stock size wheels now.
Thanks
That said, the only real change to my car was the shocks, and they don't magically make you go quicker, they need to be dialed in, and then it's still up to you to get the lap time out of them. That said, the car was super hooked up, a bit too much in the rear actually, so once I get some more front grip and balance mid-corner to off, it will be more fun and even faster to drive. I'll be back soon for the next round of chassis adjustments and see how it goes.
The performance this car gives 100% stock is amazing. If you want stickier tires, and still drive to the track, I'd use a set of Trofeo-R's which are damn close to hoosiers. Just get more comfortable in the car and you times will start tumbling.
06-28-2018, 10:54 AM
#86
Rennlist Member
I have a decent amount of laps at Putnam in my PDK 991.2 gt3 which is stock with MPSC2 tires and a mild track alignment. I am pretty consistently in the 1:14’s and am certain I can get into the 13’s with fresher tires and a little bit cooler weather. On stock suspension and MPSC2 a 1:12 May be possible with the right driver but I am not sure I can push that hard. I am going to try out the 20 inch Hoosier R7 in the fall with a little more aggresssive alignment and see how the car does. I would agree that a 1:10-1:11 should be possible on Hoosiers and Stock suspension.
08-10-2018, 10:54 AM
#88
1st Gear
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Hi Mvez, thank you for sharing such useful information. I just bought a set of Ohlins TTX for my 991.1 RS and I'm valuating the Elephant Racing rear shock mount as per your experience. I do understand Porsche already use spherical bearings on the rear shock mount of the 991 GT3, so it is not clear to me the actual differences/advantages of the Elephant Racing mounts. Could you please give me some more information?
I'm planning to use the reccommended race setting, do you have some advice with taht respect?
Thank you for any comment!
Luca
I'm planning to use the reccommended race setting, do you have some advice with taht respect?
Thank you for any comment!
Luca
09-19-2018, 01:55 AM
#89
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Mvez, thank you for sharing such useful information. I just bought a set of Ohlins TTX for my 991.1 RS and I'm valuating the Elephant Racing rear shock mount as per your experience. I do understand Porsche already use spherical bearings on the rear shock mount of the 991 GT3, so it is not clear to me the actual differences/advantages of the Elephant Racing mounts. Could you please give me some more information?
I'm planning to use the reccommended race setting, do you have some advice with taht respect?
Thank you for any comment!
Luca
I'm planning to use the reccommended race setting, do you have some advice with taht respect?
Thank you for any comment!
Luca
With regards to the "race" setting, I think the balance is pretty good out of the box, but a little soft still. For the RS, where it has more rake and front grip, I think the settings are probably a great staring point. All you may need to do is simply stiffen them by another 1-2 clicks all the way around for certain tracks or handling preference.
For the standard GT3, I think the car needs more rear comp/rebound, because it doesn't turn as well as RS from baseline setup due to less rake and smaller front ire. I stiffened all 4 corners by 1 click, then added another additional click of rear compression. Then put rear swaybar at full stiff (front at middle). With these new settings, and more seat time, the car is freakin awesome on Cup2. Was very stable in fast corners, and very neutral rotation/free in slow corners.
For stickier tires like my Pirelli DH's or Trofeo-R, I would probably add another click all around again, and adjust for balance from there.
09-19-2018, 02:13 AM
#90
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Had a great day at NCM this weekend to further work on setup. Stiffened rear bar, stiffened all ends by one click, then added an additional round of rear compression. Car was awesome. Much more neutral, and less understeer on throttle now. Alignment stayed exactly the same. Honestly, from a tire wear perspective -3.5 front may be just a tad bit too much for Cup2 grip, and because of highway driving to the track, but on-track handling seems worth it. Also for the Pirelli DH takeoffs and soon-to-be mounted Trofeo-R grip, I know it will continue to be more ideal for, which is why I didn't change anything. Rear at -2.7 ish seems good so far. Wear is nice too.
Also, more seat time def. cures the whole PTV sensation at turn-in. I feel at home in this car now.
Also, more seat time def. cures the whole PTV sensation at turn-in. I feel at home in this car now.