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Trofeo-R's mounted up. New alignment specs to test -3.1F, -2.6R. Reduced rear toe to .15 deg each side, to help free the car up some more, and reduce some outside tire wear.
Will see how tire wear is, and adjust from there.
Also had my dealer switch my ECU from steel to PCCB brakes, for less ABS intervention. Look forward to see if it helps as much as I expect it will. I had told another RL'er about this trick, and he already did it and said it was "night and day" difference at the track, without ABS interference on Ferodo DS1.11.
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Trofeo R over time and the PCCB ABS adjustment. I'm having overly aggressive ABS engagement on DS1.11s, but only on OEM Cup 2 N1s. I'm hoping some Hoosiers, Trofeo Rs, AR1s, etc. would help with that.
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Trofeo R over time and the PCCB ABS adjustment. I'm having overly aggressive ABS engagement on DS1.11s, but only on OEM Cup 2 N1s. I'm hoping some Hoosiers, Trofeo Rs, AR1s, etc. would help with that.
Plan to run a quick test at NCM next week. It helped a little bit when I used DH scrubs, but not to the degree I'm satisfied, which means it will only be more pronounced on all the usual DOT R-comps. Between slightly stickier Trofeo tires, and more relaxed ABS, optimistic it will cure the majority of my ABS issues when using DS1.11. My long term tires/setup will be based around Trofeo-R grip.
Even if my ABS gripes are totally cured, I still want more modulation than what DS1.11 offer, but that's a separate, less pressing issue IMO. It's a great pad, I'm just being greedy at that point.
Once they finally wear out, I have a different pad compound tee'd up to try.
^^^Add the Panamera lower bolts that connect the rear LCA to the wheel carrier, you gain a little bit of clearance for 19" wheels. Suncoast has the bolts, it takes 5 minutes to swap them with the wheels off.
Originally Posted by Mvez
Did that long ago to fit 19" BBS RE-MTSP...
Would you happen to have a link or part numbers for the bolts? I’m converting to 19” for track days. thx
great topic, you have chosen wonderful products.
I wonder how tuners can offer for the front 120 N/mm and for the rear 150 N/mm springs for original .1 GT3RS shock absorbers?
My car has no grip
Trofeo-R's mounted up. New alignment specs to test -3.1F, -2.6R. Reduced rear toe to .15 deg each side, to help free the car up some more, and reduce some outside tire wear.
Will see how tire wear is, and adjust from there.
Also had my dealer switch my ECU from steel to PCCB brakes, for less ABS intervention. Look forward to see if it helps as much as I expect it will. I had told another RL'er about this trick, and he already did it and said it was "night and day" difference at the track, without ABS interference on Ferodo DS1.11.
Been super busy building and racing my GLTC FRS, but finally had a chance to get the GT3 out to the track to finally shake down the Trofeo's and new brake setting. The Trofeo's are just in another league. I always say that, and the times prove it. Just messing around and not even trying for a fast lap, I went 2 seconds faster than on the latest Cup2, and I could have dipped into the 9's with more time, but it started raining and ended our day early. They just feel like a proper race tire. No tread squirm, no weird feeling. Virtually identical conditions to my previous time in Cup2, I even ran the same high pressures, around 34F, 36-38R hot, just to make it apples to apples. I could have run them lower and went faster, but was trying to baby the tires. Wear looks pretty good, looks like they could use a bit more camber to be honest, but rears seem to wear MUCH better than the CUP2 on the shoulders, even at the same pressures. I'll run this set through at this alignment and see how they fare.
Brakes using the PCCB setting seemed to calm down the ABS a bit. You can get into the brakes pretty aggressively now, and I seemed to be able to jump on the brakes harder in a straight line without any ABS. It still kicks in in a few tricky corners where the car is still turning, so I don't ever expect that to go away, but in general I think it's def. a step in the right direction. In fact, I felt like I wasn't being nearly aggressive enough on the pedal, and the DS1.11 didn't seem nearly as grabby as usual, but some of that was me getting used to my FRS race car brakes which are crazy good and high bite. I need some more laps to fully exploit this new brake setting, but I'm going to keep it and I feel it has helped and worth it.
The only thing I'm waiting for now are my 20" BBS RE Monoblocks to give it that Weissach Package look, and the car is done. Nothing left to do, except drive it!
I too am a fan of the Trofeo Rs, and don't understand why some here have struggled with them. I will say that with the various updates to the DH racing slicks that Pirelli has put out, including the recently announced DHE tire, I'm hoping we see an even more grippy Trofeo R in the spring.
At 35psi in the rear the backend just wouldn't stay planted for me at Road America. Following Pirelli's recommended 32psi however and they just lock in. I'm not sure how you drove with pressures that high!
Well, I had a chance to test the new suspension additions, and let me say, it was a game-changer. Just as the TTX provided a big performance leap, all these monoballs provided a similar leap in terms of precision and feel, allowing you to get more out of the tire and setup. I fully understand why the RS has all these, and understand the hype now. I couldn't be much happier with the car as it sits. The monoball toe inserts make a fantastic difference, and the entire rear of the car is so more confidence inspiring. The rear seems so much more settled down, and the rear steer/PTV effect seems almost non-existent now, with all the rubber deflection removed. Even on Pirelli DH, the car is very controlled at the limit, and easy to catch as the tire lets go. You can really focus on getting max front grip and balance for the car. Outside of just tinkering and weight removal to see how the car changes, I'm not sure I even feel the need to remove the rear toe steer now, the car just feels hooked-up! The stiffer front springs required a bit more shock rebound, to keep the nose planted a bit longer. The additional grip gave the car even more balance, and I was able to get to full throttle sooner as the car rotated a lot better from apex-out and mid-corner. I'll try softening the front swaybar to full soft next, but it's pretty damn good as is. That's the beauty of double adjustable shocks, you can really fine tune the handling with less compromise. I could actually lean on the front of the car so hard in braking that the rear end "dance" was a bit more pronounced. Now I want a bit more LSD lockup on decal, LOL.
We went back to NCM for another small time-attack, along with my same buddy who drives the crazy V8 miata TA monster. Track was about 2 seconds slower than in November due to heat (~90F) and conditions (it rained earlier in the day so track was green!). The V8 miata had zero setup changes from last year, but was on brand new slicks, and was still 1.7 seconds slower from November's time, he ran a 2:06 flat compared to the 2:04.3 previously. I was able to run a 2:07.3, which was a 4 tenths faster than last year. However, they bumped up the final attack session to avoid rain, and I had just gone out 20 minutes before to test a shock change and forgot to drop a couple pounds of pressure. I had a mid 2:06 lap indicated then, so I cost myself about .5 sec easily in the final TA session. The fact I was able to go faster on a slower track says a lot. That was just on Friday, and I had no prior setup/test time, and hadn't even been on track in this car since November. On Saturday, I was even more comfortable, and was able to dial in the shocks/setup and tire pressures, so the car was even faster. Managed some high 2:07's then, and the track was even slower than on Friday. Car is FAST.
It honestly feels like a new car on track compared the old setup, and the old setup was already great. NVH on the road due to the monoballs is slightly more, but the tradeoff for track performance is worth it IMO. If your car is a daily, then maybe it's not worth it, but if you want all-out performance, I whole-heartedly recommend doing exactly what I've done. The price and quality of the E-motion pieces are outstanding. Definitely include the toe-steer moonball inserts, it's worth the extra labor and effort.
New alignment kept the rear tires happier, they certainly wanted more rear camber.
-3.5 F - Zero toe
-3.0 R - .17 deg toe each side
Thanks for sharing your set-up progress with us all. Like you, I installed E-motion stage 4 kit with springs on my 991.1 gt3 and the improvement has been tremendous for my track times and drive ability. I also added a dsc controller but you have the ultimate.
Would you mind sharing any ride height and rake changes you made, if any? I noticed after installing the springs and suspension components the car ride height increased. I've brought it down to what i believe is the factory height but would like to hear if perhaps i should be lower from your experience. Also, do you think you need the camber plates to obtain the negative camber you’re running now that you have the e-motion components?
BTW I have found that for my driving style my sway bar settings of F Middle and R Full Soft is reducing under steer and allowing me to get the car around turns most efficiently. Thanks again, Ed.
I too am a fan of the Trofeo Rs, and don't understand why some here have struggled with them. I will say that with the various updates to the DH racing slicks that Pirelli has put out, including the recently announced DHE tire, I'm hoping we see an even more grippy Trofeo R in the spring.
At 35psi in the rear the backend just wouldn't stay planted for me at Road America. Following Pirelli's recommended 32psi however and they just lock in. I'm not sure how you drove with pressures that high!
The car was definitely loose!
It was pretty cool out, and I only got 3 morning sessions, 1 of which was just bedding in brakes, so I started at pretty high cold temps to avoid hurting the tire. I agree though, they certainly felt great in the 32-34 range. I'll def play with some lower fully hot pressures next time.
Agree with the comments on the Trofeo R (I have used these in the past) and having just been smashed by another competitor in a GT3 RS running these - margins were about 2s per lap on two different circuits of length ~ 2.5km.
I was on Cup 2 N2 - following the other RS, nothing in it for the first two laps and then the other car consistently drove away at a rate of 2s per lap. I was achieving max lateral g and max lineal g and had no more grip on offer. Very frustrating (peak gs were just over 1.6, left right and under brakes - from the g meter and from logs a consistent 1.3 to 1.4 - the 1Hz logs are always lower than the peak g from the dash meter - also had excellent shaped friction circle)
Talking to the competitor after the event, he said he worked the heat into the tires over the first one to two laps then charged hard - which is what I observed. I have attempted to get Pilot Sport Cup 2R and they are unavailable in Austalia and Porsche here are useless - all excuses no action.
The fact that Porsche can't supply a reasonable track tire for the GT3 or GT3 RS is appaling - every event I'm in I have to race at a massive disadvantage to cars running slicks through to other types of R spec tires and yet in the last three events I have run 1st, 3rd and 5th. This may sound good, but it feels like I have to drive at maximum attack 100% of the time and at times exceed the the limits - just be be competitive.
Thus will have to move back to Trofeo R for dry track work - for wet tracks, Trofeo R and CuP2 are hopeless.
Thanks for the update Mvez. Great to hear the PCCB programming trick helped. I've heard not so positive things about the Trofeo R - like it's only fast for a few heat cycles and then much worse than a Cup 2 N1 the rest of its life which is why I've shied away from them. If these are still fast to the cords then I can see the price justification.
08-12-2019, 05:14 PM
