Break in-it's the real deal. And a different perspective from the " horse's mouth "
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
http://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/
Courtesy of Rennlist member d00d.
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
EDIT : video added
https://youtu.be/oklqJnm7_TY
New Engine Break-in Conundrum
By: Ken Koop-The Yellowstone Region (Old Faithful Newsletter)
Since I was a young boy, I have always wondered why it takes so long to break-in a new engine–especially those built by Porsche. Most people driving new cars also do not fully understand the real reason for the break-in period. Are you one of them? A good friend of mine just picked up his brand new 911 Turbo and complained about the break-in period taking so long (2,000 miles, not exceeding 4,000 RPM). We have talked about this issue many times over the past few years, always coming up with many scenarios of why such a long break-in period is required. However, we have never agreed on a reasonable answer. Well, you are about to find out the reason Porsche requires the break-in period it has today. The answer comes directly from the engineers at Porsche.
I was on a recent Porsche factory tour and was watching an engine being built and dyno tested. Each engine is built by a single person on a moving production line. Porsche feels that they can obtain better quality control with one person building an individual engine from start to finish. In addition, each engine builder can assemble every type of production engine that Porsche produces and every gasoline engine is still built at the Stuttgart factory. It takes 2-3 ½ hours to assemble each engine, depending on the type. Afterwards, the completed engines are either used in the cars produced at the Zuffenhausen factory or are boxed up and shipped to Leipzig (for the Cayenne and Panamera) or off to Finland (for the Boxster and Cayman).
Before all of the parts are assembled for a particular engine; the pistons, connecting rods and valves are individually weighed and grouped together using similar weights to optimize performance. They are put onto a cart that moves along the assembly line with each engine block. This cart contains every part required to assemble that particular engine which includes each washer, nut, bolt, bearing etc… As a result, if any part is left in the cart at the end of the assembly line, then—Houston, we have a problem!At the end of the assembly line, the engine is filled with Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil. Each engine is then dry run (without fuel), pressure tested and checked for leaks. Every car coming off the production line is also run on a rolling road dyno. This enables all cars and engines to be tested at highway speed before they leave the factory.
Some of the engines are also randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line (the engine’s maximum RPM). The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed.After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop, at a minimum, 100% of what its advertised HP rating is. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I couldn’t resist asking the question that I had been searching to find an answer to for all these years. I asked “why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must keep the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” I thought that was a logical question and if I do say so myself-well stated! The engineer replied, “Herr Koop, you do not understand (that I already knew). When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.
“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.” I replied, “JA DAS SOUNDS GUT, when you explain it that way, it makes a lot of sense.” I thought to myself “You Dummkopf, why didn’t you think of that”.
The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM. So simple; who woulda thunk.
Many experienced Porsche engine builders and experts on the Flat-6 engine state that the peak power of a Porsche engine is developed around the 20,000 mile mark. This coincides with the principle of what the Porsche engineer was telling me; “Break it in correctly and the engine will last longer and perform better”.
It only took me 45 years to find out the real answer to this puzzling question. After I returned home, I explained this to my friend. As for our ongoing debate, we now feel a solution to this riddle has finally been reached. Neither one of us had the answer to this complex question totally figured out, but we were on the right path! I am finally able to resolve another one of my life’s unanswered mysteries and now it’s been crossed off the list. I hope this helps explain one of your unanswered questions in the car world as well.
By: Ken Koop-The Yellowstone Region (Old Faithful Newsletter)
Since I was a young boy, I have always wondered why it takes so long to break-in a new engine–especially those built by Porsche. Most people driving new cars also do not fully understand the real reason for the break-in period. Are you one of them? A good friend of mine just picked up his brand new 911 Turbo and complained about the break-in period taking so long (2,000 miles, not exceeding 4,000 RPM). We have talked about this issue many times over the past few years, always coming up with many scenarios of why such a long break-in period is required. However, we have never agreed on a reasonable answer. Well, you are about to find out the reason Porsche requires the break-in period it has today. The answer comes directly from the engineers at Porsche.
I was on a recent Porsche factory tour and was watching an engine being built and dyno tested. Each engine is built by a single person on a moving production line. Porsche feels that they can obtain better quality control with one person building an individual engine from start to finish. In addition, each engine builder can assemble every type of production engine that Porsche produces and every gasoline engine is still built at the Stuttgart factory. It takes 2-3 ½ hours to assemble each engine, depending on the type. Afterwards, the completed engines are either used in the cars produced at the Zuffenhausen factory or are boxed up and shipped to Leipzig (for the Cayenne and Panamera) or off to Finland (for the Boxster and Cayman).
Before all of the parts are assembled for a particular engine; the pistons, connecting rods and valves are individually weighed and grouped together using similar weights to optimize performance. They are put onto a cart that moves along the assembly line with each engine block. This cart contains every part required to assemble that particular engine which includes each washer, nut, bolt, bearing etc… As a result, if any part is left in the cart at the end of the assembly line, then—Houston, we have a problem!At the end of the assembly line, the engine is filled with Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil. Each engine is then dry run (without fuel), pressure tested and checked for leaks. Every car coming off the production line is also run on a rolling road dyno. This enables all cars and engines to be tested at highway speed before they leave the factory.
Some of the engines are also randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line (the engine’s maximum RPM). The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed.After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop, at a minimum, 100% of what its advertised HP rating is. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.
When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I couldn’t resist asking the question that I had been searching to find an answer to for all these years. I asked “why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must keep the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” I thought that was a logical question and if I do say so myself-well stated! The engineer replied, “Herr Koop, you do not understand (that I already knew). When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.
“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.” I replied, “JA DAS SOUNDS GUT, when you explain it that way, it makes a lot of sense.” I thought to myself “You Dummkopf, why didn’t you think of that”.
The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.
So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM. So simple; who woulda thunk.
Many experienced Porsche engine builders and experts on the Flat-6 engine state that the peak power of a Porsche engine is developed around the 20,000 mile mark. This coincides with the principle of what the Porsche engineer was telling me; “Break it in correctly and the engine will last longer and perform better”.
It only took me 45 years to find out the real answer to this puzzling question. After I returned home, I explained this to my friend. As for our ongoing debate, we now feel a solution to this riddle has finally been reached. Neither one of us had the answer to this complex question totally figured out, but we were on the right path! I am finally able to resolve another one of my life’s unanswered mysteries and now it’s been crossed off the list. I hope this helps explain one of your unanswered questions in the car world as well.
Courtesy of Rennlist member d00d.
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
EDIT : video added
https://youtu.be/oklqJnm7_TY
Last edited by neanicu; 11-02-2016 at 12:53 PM.
#2
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Good post. I am still amazed that some people completely ignore break-in and then brag about it. Perhaps it makes them feel "hard core" that they took a car with delivery miles to the track and started doing hot laps. Or maybe because they're going to sell it to the next guy once the ".2" comes out and just don't care.
The only thing I would add (and this is my opinion) is that the 2,000 mile mark is generous. Most seasoned Porsche engine builders will perform a 500 mile break-in period. I don't think you'll hear from anyone that's educated on this matter that a break-in is not necessary.
The only thing I would add (and this is my opinion) is that the 2,000 mile mark is generous. Most seasoned Porsche engine builders will perform a 500 mile break-in period. I don't think you'll hear from anyone that's educated on this matter that a break-in is not necessary.
#5
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
So we can go hammer a new car to 80% of redline right off the showroom floor, as long as it is for less than 30 minutes.
Also last I checked tires, brakes and CV joints don't need 2,000 miles to break in... Interesting article nonetheless, especially about the production process, just question some of the statements. Thanks for posting.
Also last I checked tires, brakes and CV joints don't need 2,000 miles to break in... Interesting article nonetheless, especially about the production process, just question some of the statements. Thanks for posting.
#6
#7
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 26,141
Likes: 0
Received 5,413 Likes
on
2,516 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Good read. But, that's from 2011. FYI.
Trending Topics
#8
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
BMW is the smartest manufacturer to address break-in with the M model lineup. All their cars run a "break-in" engine tune which reduces power (this is quite easy with turbo engines). First service is at 1,200 miles for software update. I think all manufacturers should do this.
#10
Race Director
#11
Race Director
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
This video gives you the general idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79TwUea8E4I
Last edited by Mike in CA; 02-19-2016 at 04:37 PM.
#12
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
This is the first time I have read this article Mike. I must have missed it surprisingly,since it's a topic I'm interested in.
It might be from 2011,but it applies today to the letter IMO. I just want Renllist members to be smart and informed,but the decision of handling break in belongs to each individual.
So " thermal expansion " is the key statement here.
It might be from 2011,but it applies today to the letter IMO. I just want Renllist members to be smart and informed,but the decision of handling break in belongs to each individual.
So " thermal expansion " is the key statement here.
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#13
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
BMW is the smartest manufacturer to address break-in with the M model lineup. All their cars run a "break-in" engine tune which reduces power (this is quite easy with turbo engines). First service is at 1,200 miles for software update. I think all manufacturers should do this.
#14
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Most important I think is increasing RPM only when engine is properly warmed up.
Going 4000RPM after startup at freezing outside temps is different than slowly warming up a car at 80F outside and cooling down the car slowly. This goes for all the parts, bearings, gear box, engine, brakes, etc.
The new RS has this little blue light but it doesn't go over 2500 RPM till oil is 180F whenever possible, sometimes this is hard at the track but that's why I prefer to drive into town to fuel up before the first run and after each run.
I cringe when I see cars redlining cold out of the pit and than come in from a flyer and pull up the handbrake. My car is really much happier with a warmup and cool down run.
I try to get as many heat cycles with gentle heat up and gentle cool down as I can before going to the track and always change oil after the first track weekend.
My first new 2010 997.2RS has 32K mostly track miles, gearbox needed refresh, but the engine is still strong. How many hours is that 250?
We will see how long this one lasts only 8500 miles so far and I wonder how those that lost 2nd and 3rd engine broke in / treated their cars...
Going 4000RPM after startup at freezing outside temps is different than slowly warming up a car at 80F outside and cooling down the car slowly. This goes for all the parts, bearings, gear box, engine, brakes, etc.
The new RS has this little blue light but it doesn't go over 2500 RPM till oil is 180F whenever possible, sometimes this is hard at the track but that's why I prefer to drive into town to fuel up before the first run and after each run.
I cringe when I see cars redlining cold out of the pit and than come in from a flyer and pull up the handbrake. My car is really much happier with a warmup and cool down run.
I try to get as many heat cycles with gentle heat up and gentle cool down as I can before going to the track and always change oil after the first track weekend.
My first new 2010 997.2RS has 32K mostly track miles, gearbox needed refresh, but the engine is still strong. How many hours is that 250?
We will see how long this one lasts only 8500 miles so far and I wonder how those that lost 2nd and 3rd engine broke in / treated their cars...
#15
Race Director
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
This is the first time I have read this article Mike. I must have missed it surprisingly,since it's a topic I'm interested in.
It might be from 2011,but it applies today to the letter IMO. I just want Renllist members to be smart and informed,but the decision of handling break in belongs to each individual.
So " thermal expansion " is the key statement here.![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
It might be from 2011,but it applies today to the letter IMO. I just want Renllist members to be smart and informed,but the decision of handling break in belongs to each individual.
So " thermal expansion " is the key statement here.
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![thumbup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif)