nkhalidi

PCCB. I really like the way the big yellow calipers look on 987s. It adds a purposeful, function-oriented appearance. The light weight is a bonus. But I couldn't - and still can't - justify $8k for a vanity option on a car that will see the track maybe three times a year.

Cost-no-object, I probably would've opted for an odd color combination like green over full-leather espresso. But I like how my car is minimal and basic.

medtech

PSE!

jimcabc

For my needs, I can't think of anything I would have added unless money was not important. OK, in that case, an upgrade to the "S" would have been nice and maybe full leather. The standard Boxster is a pretty nice car as it sits! See the latest issue of "Excellence."

Jim
2012 Boxster

Dk Blue Metalic/Black
Power heated seats
PSE (awesome)
Wind Block

JUPJAI

Full Leather in Cocoa !

khooni

PCCBs


it doesn't save weight due to it's size but they fill the wheels very nicely.

You are right. It's more a vanity "I got the expensive brakes" option than a realistic need for one. I track about 4 times a year as well.

Marine Blue

I thougt PCCB's weighed 8lbs less than the steel rotors (per rotor)?

khooni

nope. only a similarly sized steel rotor.

on a spyder/cayman R, there is negligible weight savings because the brake setup is much smaller. You know, the PCCBs are overkill on the spyder. The car in street use is limited by the tires. On the track, frequent high speed stops are a different story of course.

The question I have is the mushy brake syndrome. It just allows more modulation and better control. Just learn to lean on it and it should be great.

FYI, i have 2 spyders, 1 with PCCB and 1 without. And I just order a Cayman R without PCCBs. I thought about it at length and decided that if I ruined the brakes during tracking, I really didn't want to replace them with 350mm steel discs. but mainly, it was the cost. It is more than 10% of the base car........

redyps

khooni - I respectfully disagree. I have held both rotors in my hands while on display (and discussed) at a tech session with a Gold Meister mechanic. The weight difference between the two is significant. Afshin - 8 lbs per rotor sounds about right but we didn't weigh them.

I frequently track the car and love them. As you know from my original spec when you and others helped me spec the car, I opted for only the sport options (MT, Sport Buckets, PCCB, Sport Shifter, Sport Chrono, and PSE) so for me the expense was okay. I can understand if someone is not tracking the car that the steel brakes are perfectly adequate. All of the Boxsters and Caymans I drove before buying the Spyder had steel brakes. Some even prefer steel on the track because of wear and maintenance costs.

khooni - I have also been following the mushy brake discussion threads here and in the other forums. Like you I am not as concerned. One thing for sure when you brake hard (e.g., 110 down to 40 mph) they are outstanding and give me a lot of confidence.

The only regrets I have is around safety and the fact that a hardtop like the Cayman is much safer on the track than a convertible like the Spyder. There are also better options for adding a rollbar and seat belt harnesses. I did some checking here in northern CA and many of the track days do not allow Spyders in the faster run groups because of safety concerns. The only rollbar options I have found that preserve the use of the top are to reinforce the factory roll hoops and add a harness bar. It is all done custom and not cheap.

Phil

khooni

yes...hmmm ... I was told that there was very little weight savings because whilst the ceramic discs save 50% over the same size, we also had to factor in larger calipers which resulted in very little weight savings. Now, because I didn't weigh the entire setup, I had no way of knowing if that's true. In my mind, the most under-valued weight savings comes from the LiON battery.... That along saves as much as the pair of buckets over sport seats.......

it would be great if someone had actually had the opportunity to weigh the entire setup.

you are right re the standard brakes.. It only feels mushy because most drivers here are coming from audis and bmws which have horrendously over servoed brakes. rubbish for heel and toe. I wish my PCCBs felt like the standard steel setup.

On the CR, I wanted to keep it simple and yet track it when I want to. In the UK, tracks will allow you to use whatever you want.

redyps

I considered the LiON battery but in the end used the $1700 savings to help offset the cost of the PCCBs. Interesting to hear that the UK tracks are less restrictive on convertibles. Would love to hear your take on the CR when you get it, especially in comparison to the Spyder.

orthojoe

You need to PM bensf. He had a small modification done to to his spyder that now allows him to run in the C group with HOD. The modification is hidden under the decklid, and cannot be seen. The only 'negative' is that the roof cannot be stored in the trunk with the braces in place. However, the braces are easily removed in a few seconds, and the roof can be stored again. Very elegent solution that costed him ~$700. Ben, if you're reading this can you post the name of the shop you went to? I can't remember...

This make sense to me. The calipers are significantly larger than the standard calipers. I would imagine that some of the weight savings from the larger PCCB rotors are negated by the larger calipers. Whereas in the GT3, the calipers/rotors are the same size regardless of steel vs PCCB. The weight savings in that situation is much more easily quantified.

Wait, wait, wait. You DO know that the pedal feel on a GT3 is the exact OPPOSITE of what the pedal feel is like on our spyders, right? The solid pedal allows for the easier heel toe. The problem with the 987.2 brakes is that the master cylinder is too small, and the brakes are OVER boosted (servoed?), which gives it the soft feel. Master cylinder swap helps with the travel distance, but the soft feel remains since the brakes are overboosted. We all know I'm a big complainer about the pedal feel in these cars. I can certainly respect that some people don't mind or like the pedal feel, but good brakes designed for the track are supposed to have a solid feel/endpoint. Unless you're arguing that the GT3 brakes are rubbish?

redyps

Orthojoe - I went to the same shop that Ben did. By coincidence a friend recommended it to me and after a short discussion with the owner I put two and two together. And yes the reinforced bracing solution was quite nice. I think the added expense was in regards to harness bar that would be positioned lower than the roll hoop cross members. It was suggested that was too high and a better attachment point for the shoulder straps should be lowered. It was also suggested that a cross brace be welded at the top between the roll hoops for added strength. So a little bit more involved that Ben's reinforced bracing for the roll hoops.

Phil
p.s. Did I see you driving in the WC area on Friday morning? Tried to follow you but could not catch up or see which direction you went when I was getting on 680...

khooni

yes. The GT3 RS that my family has comes with PCCBs so I have not compared one with only a standard steel setup. I just assumed that all PCCB brakes feel the same.

It is, however, inconsistent with the various porsches that I have driven before that one including the 996TT. The standard brakes are very good. I have PCCBs on my spyder as well. It is mainly a vanity option. You may be right on the Gt3, I don't know. However I respectfully disagree that the standard brakes are mushy or crap.

In the end, I suspect that it is personal preference. I do however worship at the altar of porsche engineering and believe that a marque that is known for it's brakes, is unlikely to give us something which tarnishes that reputation.

orthojoe

I'm glad you guys are looking into this stuff. I'm planning on running less with HOD these days (more $$, less track time), and NCRC and trackmasters allow me to run the car 'as is', so I'm not sure I'm going to do anything quite yet. I do plan on getting the 6point harnesses installed, but I really want to keep the car as 'stock appearing' as possible since it's not my 'primary' track car anyway. Keep us all updated with what you find out/do with car.


Yes, that was most likely me. I live in Walnut Creek. I was actually headed up to benicia to sell my laptimer (Racechrono) to a fellow forum member (I'm switching to harry's laptimer). I'd love to meet up sometime to 'talk shop'!

orthojoe

I have a good friend with a 2010 GT3 with PCCBs. Pedal is rock solid. Awesome. Opposite of my car. I also have a good friend with a 2011 Turbo S with PCCBs. Mushy. Another friend with a 2009 Carrera, standard brakes. Mushy. Drove a cayman R with standard brakes at the Porsche world road show event. Mushy.

I believe Porsche makes their 'street cars' with mushy pedals, and their track cars (GT) with solid pedals. I think this is a recent change too, because the pedal feel on an old 2000 Boxster S is great (GT3 like). I would not be surprised if all the 996s feel great, but I've never sat in/driven a 996

Most Porsche buyers aren't track drivers, so they probably prefer the mushy feel that their Mercedes/Lexus has. You've got to cater to your target audience. Thankfully, they did things right with the GT3.

Finally, don't mistake my 'mushy' comment on their actual performance. They work VERY well, good power, no fade. The pedal travel and soft feel is inconsistent with what a sports car should be, though.