Options You Wish You Ordered......
12-30-2011, 01:55 PM
#46
xenons add the weight because a much larger washer bottle is used.. I believe 6 more litres of washer fluid. Just drain accordingly to reduce the weight gain.........
porsche quotes a weight reduction of 10kg i believe. without weighing, I felt the difference was greater. I intend to switch out the LiOn on my spyder and fit it to the CR to counter the AC I added.
porsche quotes a weight reduction of 10kg i believe. without weighing, I felt the difference was greater. I intend to switch out the LiOn on my spyder and fit it to the CR to counter the AC I added.
01-03-2012, 10:35 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
I have a good friend with a 2010 GT3 with PCCBs. Pedal is rock solid. Awesome. Opposite of my car. I also have a good friend with a 2011 Turbo S with PCCBs. Mushy. Another friend with a 2009 Carrera, standard brakes. Mushy. Drove a cayman R with standard brakes at the Porsche world road show event. Mushy.
I believe Porsche makes their 'street cars' with mushy pedals, and their track cars (GT) with solid pedals. I think this is a recent change too, because the pedal feel on an old 2000 Boxster S is great (GT3 like). I would not be surprised if all the 996s feel great, but I've never sat in/driven a 996
Most Porsche buyers aren't track drivers, so they probably prefer the mushy feel that their Mercedes/Lexus has. You've got to cater to your target audience. Thankfully, they did things right with the GT3.
Finally, don't mistake my 'mushy' comment on their actual performance. They work VERY well, good power, no fade. The pedal travel and soft feel is inconsistent with what a sports car should be, though.
I believe Porsche makes their 'street cars' with mushy pedals, and their track cars (GT) with solid pedals. I think this is a recent change too, because the pedal feel on an old 2000 Boxster S is great (GT3 like). I would not be surprised if all the 996s feel great, but I've never sat in/driven a 996
Most Porsche buyers aren't track drivers, so they probably prefer the mushy feel that their Mercedes/Lexus has. You've got to cater to your target audience. Thankfully, they did things right with the GT3.
Finally, don't mistake my 'mushy' comment on their actual performance. They work VERY well, good power, no fade. The pedal travel and soft feel is inconsistent with what a sports car should be, though.
My 2008 RS (with PCCBs) has a rock hard pedal. My Cayman R (with PCCBs) is soft and mushy - and having its master changed to the GT3 one. Our 2000 and 2001 Boxster Ss (iron rotors) brake pedal was terrific.
Truth be told, I recently drove a 92 Plymouth Voyager van. Though its brakes were only adequate, it had a solid pedal, with excellent feel, and were easy to modulate. Too bad Porsche doesn't try to match that, anymore.
I wonder how much of it is the drive-off (hill) assist and the other silliness being added to these cars.
01-03-2012, 10:51 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
I agree with everything you've said.
My 2008 RS (with PCCBs) has a rock hard pedal. My Cayman R (with PCCBs) is soft and mushy - and having its master changed to the GT3 one. Our 2000 and 2001 Boxster Ss (iron rotors) brake pedal was terrific.
Truth be told, I recently drove a 92 Plymouth Voyager van. Though its brakes were only adequate, it had a solid pedal, with excellent feel, and were easy to modulate. Too bad Porsche doesn't try to match that, anymore.
My 2008 RS (with PCCBs) has a rock hard pedal. My Cayman R (with PCCBs) is soft and mushy - and having its master changed to the GT3 one. Our 2000 and 2001 Boxster Ss (iron rotors) brake pedal was terrific.
Truth be told, I recently drove a 92 Plymouth Voyager van. Though its brakes were only adequate, it had a solid pedal, with excellent feel, and were easy to modulate. Too bad Porsche doesn't try to match that, anymore.
Good to know I'm not totally insane...
01-25-2012, 03:05 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
01-26-2012, 06:29 PM
#51
it can't be... the rear discs are way smaller than the PCCB discs. actual savings are only for equivalent sized discs at 50% of the disc weight. Therefore I believe that if you are quoting from Car and Driver, the numbers are incorrect. I tried to check with Porsche UK on this and at first they came back with negligible weight loss (because of the much large size of the PCCB setup, both calipers and rotors) and after much pestering they came back with 7 lbs for the entire setup.
on a 997 Gt3, I think it is more believable since the size increase is not so great.
can someone show some proof or quote from an official Porsche authority so we can all be satisfied? I am well and truly confused by this.
on a 997 Gt3, I think it is more believable since the size increase is not so great.
can someone show some proof or quote from an official Porsche authority so we can all be satisfied? I am well and truly confused by this.
01-26-2012, 07:15 PM
#52
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Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
If the total weight loss is 7 Lbs for the PCCB's it doesn't leave many advantages when applied to the Boxster since the car is relatively light and doesn't seem to overheat the steel brakes.
01-26-2012, 08:15 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
That is what I was told by Porsche (both, my dealer and the factory rep at the LA Auto Show, prior to ordering my R) and by Suncoast.
Even Porsche's own documentation http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/11...ter_cayman.pdf shows (bold is my emphasis):
Drivers who desire even greater braking power than standard may opt for Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB). Developed for the extreme use of motorsports, PCCB replaces the standard metal brake rotors with ceramic discs. Besides delivering otherwise unobtainable levels of consistently superb braking performance under repeated heavy use, the ceramic rotors weigh approximately 50 percent less than the standard discs.
If PCCBs only saved 7 pounds total, and that was 50% of the standard discs, then the standard discs would weigh 14 pounds (total), with each rotor less than 4 pounds... impossible.
Truly, you only need to pick up a ceramic rotor to understand why they save as much weight as they do.
BTW, the 50% weight savings are always as compared to the standard rotors, not to the same size iron rotor.
Even Porsche's own documentation http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/11...ter_cayman.pdf shows (bold is my emphasis):
Drivers who desire even greater braking power than standard may opt for Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB). Developed for the extreme use of motorsports, PCCB replaces the standard metal brake rotors with ceramic discs. Besides delivering otherwise unobtainable levels of consistently superb braking performance under repeated heavy use, the ceramic rotors weigh approximately 50 percent less than the standard discs.
If PCCBs only saved 7 pounds total, and that was 50% of the standard discs, then the standard discs would weigh 14 pounds (total), with each rotor less than 4 pounds... impossible.
Truly, you only need to pick up a ceramic rotor to understand why they save as much weight as they do.
BTW, the 50% weight savings are always as compared to the standard rotors, not to the same size iron rotor.
Last edited by stevecolletti; 01-28-2012 at 10:39 PM. Reason: remove duplicate 'rotor'.
01-27-2012, 06:02 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
No doubt the PCCB rotors weigh significantly less, but others have pointed out that the larger PCCB calipers offset some of the savings. I wouldn't put it past Porsche's marketing folks to conveniently leave that info out to push an $8k option...
01-27-2012, 06:53 AM
#55
That is what I was told by Porsche (both, my dealer and the factory rep at the LA Auto Show, prior to ordering my R) and by Suncoast.
Even Porsche's own documentation http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/11...ter_cayman.pdf shows (bold is my emphasis):
Drivers who desire even greater braking power than standard may opt for Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB). Developed for the extreme use of motorsports, PCCB replaces the standard metal brake rotors with ceramic discs. Besides delivering otherwise unobtainable levels of consistently superb braking performance under repeated heavy use, the ceramic rotors weigh approximately 50 percent less than the standard discs.
If PCCBs only saved 7 pounds total, and that was 50% of the standard discs, then the standard discs would weigh 14 pounds (total), with each rotor less than 4 pounds... impossible.
Truly, you only need to pick up a ceramic rotor to understand why they save as much weight as they do.
BTW, the 50% weight savings are always as compared to the standard rotors, not to the same size iron rotor rotor.
Even Porsche's own documentation http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/11...ter_cayman.pdf shows (bold is my emphasis):
Drivers who desire even greater braking power than standard may opt for Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB). Developed for the extreme use of motorsports, PCCB replaces the standard metal brake rotors with ceramic discs. Besides delivering otherwise unobtainable levels of consistently superb braking performance under repeated heavy use, the ceramic rotors weigh approximately 50 percent less than the standard discs.
If PCCBs only saved 7 pounds total, and that was 50% of the standard discs, then the standard discs would weigh 14 pounds (total), with each rotor less than 4 pounds... impossible.
Truly, you only need to pick up a ceramic rotor to understand why they save as much weight as they do.
BTW, the 50% weight savings are always as compared to the standard rotors, not to the same size iron rotor rotor.
NO. the 50% weight savings are for the same rotor size. Therefore for a 997.2 gt3, the weight savings are real and significant.
The point is I have PCCBs on 1 of my spyders and regular brakes on the other. I am certainly not good enough to tell if there is any handling impact. They have the same PS2 tyres and tire wear makes the most difference.
Fade aside, the PCCBs look much more impressive.
01-27-2012, 11:44 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
And let's not forget that in addition to the reduced unsprung weight of the PCCBs there is also reduced rotating mass. I now have 7 track days on them and love them. I can break late and quickly prior to downshift and turn-in. Many other cars have to break early and longer. Its a little scary because you are coming up on them fast and you are stilling watching their tail lights to go off. The wear of the PCCBs is also pretty phenomenal along with no squeaks and no dust. For me the cost was an easy trade-off for full leather, Bi-Xenons, AC, automatic dimming mirror, etc. but I bought the car to track it. As my Gold Meister mechanic puts it "it really makes the suspension come alive". I could not agree more.
As a side note: I did have some Z-06 drivers come up to me and ask me if the car was stock to which I replied yes. They couldn't believe it. Besides carrying more speed out of the corners onto the straights I ran with 1/2 tank of fuel, 100 octane and higher tire pressures.
As a side note: I did have some Z-06 drivers come up to me and ask me if the car was stock to which I replied yes. They couldn't believe it. Besides carrying more speed out of the corners onto the straights I ran with 1/2 tank of fuel, 100 octane and higher tire pressures.
01-27-2012, 12:13 PM
#58
Nordschleife Master
Phil, do you know if our cars can recognize that we're running higher octane gas and, as a result, advance ignition timing to make more power? Or are you just adding 100 octane for a saftey factor to protect from detonating from higher engine temps at the track?
01-27-2012, 12:48 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
I have been told that yes our our cars will recognize that we are running higher octane and make more power. To avoid diluting the 100 with the left over fuel in the tank, I fill-up with 96 octane from the local race fuel station in Sunol before I leave. So depending upon the distance to the track it should be somewhere between those two numbers.