Dino944

Hi guys,

Not sure if I'd go new or CPO. I've heard there are a few new 08 and 09s still out there, but there are also several low mileage CPO cars. It would not be our only car, just an additional fun car. We might put 2,000-3,000 miles on it per year.

Are there any known issues to be concerned about with an 08 Boxster S?

I saw a good post suggesting changing the oil at about 750 or 1000 miles and then again at 1500 to get rid of fine metal bits. Thats a great tip! But I was also wondering what are the service intervals for major services and what is done on a major ( is it just changing all fluids/ spark plugs, or does it require belts too)? Also do they take the engine out for most services? Any idea what the average maintenance costs are per year on an average year without a major and how much a major service runs?

Reason for these questions is my Wife also likes the 993 and is kind of interested in maybe getting a nice low mileage 993. Obviously, an 08 Boxster new or CPO has the advantage of a warranty...and in my preliminary research on 993s I've heard issues about rear windows cracking and also something about CELs? So we are just trying to determine what path we may wish to travel.

I did drive a Lotus Elise recently. Fun to drive but maybe a bit raw for us, and getting in and out is kind of a b*tch.

Thanks for any input or advice you can give me.
Best regards,
Dino

Macster

You have to see what left over new (though possibly punched) 08 and 09 cars are available and what prices are and what used and CPO'd cars are available.

Given you plan on driving the car so little (2K miles per year? Man that's have a week's driving for me!) I think you could probably save money, lose less through depreciation, by buying a used car. Let someone else take the new car depreciation hit. However, there were some outstanding deals to be had on new left over 08s and I bet the same is true for some left over 09s.

I posted my early oil change mileages for my 08 CaymanS. The 1st I did at 750 miles and the second around 1350 miles.

(The 3rd at 2000 miles was done at dealer just before I was to leave on a trip, but car totaled in an accident the day before I was scheduled to leave. Then in July when I undertook the trip this time in my new used 03 Turbo I hit a mule deer and the rest of the trip was by turbo-prop and rental car and not by my Turbo. I've since got the Turbo out of the shop and it has been put back to its pre-collision condition and early Sept. drove it almost 3600 miles to Texas and back over 6 days.)

If you buy a new car, an 08 or 09 left over, I'd advise an early oil/filter service at 750 miles or so. Whether you do another early one before the break in period over depends upon the condition of the oil from the filter housing. Techs generally don't bother to look at this oil but since I change my cars oil I always look at the oil from teh filter. Based on what I saw I decided an 2nd oil change at 1500 miles warranted. My work schedule required I either do it earlier or later so I chose earlier at 1350 miles instead of the planned 1500 miles. The oil from the filter housing this second change very clear. Still I wanted fresh oil in the engine at the end of its break in.

If you buy a used car either as part of the deal get an oil/filter service done or budget in your offer to have it done, unless the car has had one done recently.

Service intervals are 15K miles (at least with my 02 Boxster, newer cars might be a bit less or a bit more miles) with major services at 30K miles.

For you and your planned usage I'd advise you change the oil/filter once a year. Brake fluid flush/bleed every 2 years. Coolant change every 4 years.

Serpentine belt not needed until 60K miles but like tires these can reach end of life on time as well as distance traveled, so I'd change the belt at the 4 to 5 year mark. You can do this yourself.

Spark plugs maybe every 60K miles.

Engine air filter, cabin filter every 4 years or so.

Numbers from memory of my 02 car's service interval recommendations. Visit a dealer and look at owners manual for an 08 and 09 car and make copies of the service schedule pages to get a feel for what is required and when.

Dealer service department might be able to print out a minor and major service sechedule.

At same time you can ask for price quotes. Though the prices will have gone up likely by the time your car needs any servicing.

One thing you have to worry about is with so little use the car may attact rodents from its being inactive for long periods of time. It can only take a few weeks of inactivity at the right or wrong time for mice or rats to see up a homestead in the car. Serious damage will almost certainly result.

So you should take steps to avoid any rodents getting in the car while it is unused. Also, buy and use a battery charger/maintainer to keep battery fully charged or you'll be replacing the battery every year.

BTW, you *can* drive the car more than 2K miles per year. I have over 225K miles on my 02 Boxster and it still runs great. And has required no heavy-duty repairs, just regular servicing and a few small things taken care of.

Best car I ever owned though of course I'm hoping the Turbo even better!

Oh, can't help you with 993 vs. Boxster. Quite different cars. Both fine cars though. The 993 to some is simply the best looking car of recent vintage. I agree the 993 is a very nice looking car.

Drive examples of both the 993 and Boxster and make up your mind. I thought about a 993 even looked at some before I bought the Cayman but I really like newer cars and the 08 Cayman of course much newer than even the last example of the 993.

(When time to replace the Cayman a few suggested instead I look at the 996 Turbo and I did and liked what I saw and I liked what I learned about the car and upon searching found a real nice example: An 03 in pristine condition with 9500 miles with 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty and at a heck of a price at nearby dealer; and bought a Turbo instead of another CaymanS.)

The last year or two of the 993 has OBD2 (required for USA cars from '96 and on) and reports are that the secondary air injection ports can get clogged up and this can trip CEL and require some work to remove the deposits that are causing the CEL error.

'95 and earlier 993s do not have OBD2 and thus even if the secondary air injection ports blocked no check engine light will occur. The problem though should still be fixed in my opinion.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Dino944

Hi Macster,

Thanks for your excellent advice regarding oil changes etc. I will definitely follow your advice if we go with a Boxster S or Cayman. While I'm sure many people just go by the book in terms of break in periods and they presume whatever testing done at the factory is good enough, its great to hear from someone who did their own oil changes that there are often still small metal filings swimming around in there. So I would certainly do the early/extra oil change/s during the break in period.

Wow, you drive 2,000 miles per week!!! I thought I drove a lot, averaging 500 miles per week just going to and from the office. You must practically live in your cars if you are averaging 2K per week. Just kidding. As for my projected mileage per year its simply because I drive an average car during the week, because parking is terrible where I work. I'd never take a P car there again. My old one used to get door dings all the time no matter where I parked. So most of the cars use would be limited to weekend or evening drives to a restaurant.

As for rodents etc., as we have a bit of a storage issue right now, it would probably spend the bulk of the week at a professional storage facility where there are several really high end vintage cars like Duesenbergs, Packards, vintage Ferraris etc. So a Boxster/Cayman would probably be fine there. But thanks for the heads up.

I am hoping a few other Boxster/Cayman owners will be able to chime in with prices for services. I know some mid engine cars can be pricer than others to maintain depending on if access to the engine is only via dropping the engine for any and all services other than an oil change, while some can be worked on with the engine still in the car because either there is enough room to work on it, or there is an access panel at the back of the passenger compartment for the hard to reach areas. I just wanted to get an idea of what most people find their average ownship costs are with these cars as it might be another factor in going with the Boxster or a low mileage well cared for 993. So if anyone knows what an average cost of a normal 10K or 15K service and also a 30K major please let me know? Are we talking $1,000, $1,500, $2,000 more?

Thanks again in advance. And Macster thank you for your excellent advice its greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Dino

Macster

I mistyped. I don't average 2K miles per week. I "average" around 575 miles per week. Several times a year though I head out on a week long road trip and can put 4000 or more miles on the car in that week's time.

Mice don't avoid high end cars cause of their brand name. Mice go where the shelter is. You need to be proactive in protecting your car against rodent infestation. Remember if other cars in same area are protected then this makes your car more attracitive to the creatures. I've seen Porsches after mice and rats have set up home. Saw a Turbo cab a few weeks ago. (Took piccs.)

Engine/transmission had to be removed. The engine wiriing harness damaged, hydraulic hoses damaged, filth everywhere. The interior of the car severely damaged. Don't know the cost to put right. Tech told me the owner's comprehensive coverage was paying. I'd hate to think about paying for this kind of repair out of my pocket. One could be looking at several tens of thousands of dollars to put the car back right.

My car has never had its engine out in all of over 225K miles of driving. It had the transmission out once -- under warranty -- to replace a leaking RMS and IMS end plate. All services can be done from above or under the car with the engine in the car. Major internal engine work requires the engine be removed but with reasonable servicing your car won't require this.

Original engine too, along with original clutch.

Given you will put so few miles on the car servicing costs will not be very high at all. I change the oil/filter every 5K miles. At the dealer this might run $200 or so.

Next biggest expense is tires. Rears last 20K or more while fronts last double that. If tire wear uneven I have alignment done when new tires fitted all around. Sometimes dealer will offer alignment special with new tires and I go that route. Tires (17" N-rated Michelin tires) are around $1100 for a set of 4 mounted and balanced, though tire prices are going up. Add another $100 for a discounted alignment as part of the tire replacement.

Brake pads last 40K miles or so, rotors maybe double that. I do my own brakes.

Really at 2K miles or so per year, you're looking at an oil/filter change once a year, and that's about it for a couple of years. Then brake fluid flush/bleed and every couple of years after. At the slow rate you'll rack up miles the tires will require replacement due to age and not wear.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Dino944

Hi Macster,

Once again, thanks for the great reply about storage and service.

I should have been clearer, the storage facility we would use is a relatively new state of the art facility specifically for automobiles. Its maybe 4-5 years old, climate controlled, alarmed, 24 hour surveylance etc. So maybe based on these factors (and because I know many people are storing things far pricier than a Boxster there), I am guessing that rodents are not an issue at this place but I would double check. I saw pix of a guys older Ferrari 308GT4 2+2 that a rodent made of mess of and the repair costs were very unpleasant.

Thanks again for the info about engine in/out servicing and what would be done on a car like that. I agree on tires I'd probably be replacing due to age before wear becomes and issue. Its also great to hear that with regular oil changes and propper care, during the 225K you've put on your car the engine has never had to come out.

Once again thanks for your advice and sharing your P car experiences with me.
Best regards,
Dino

mdrobc1213

My wife had her 09 Cayenne S in for its 15k service last month and it was about $700 total. AM told by the dealer my 09 Boxster should run about $500 when the time comes...but I only have 1400 miles on it now. Am still wondering if I should change the oil; dealer told me that I didn't have to and could wait till 15k Macster...does that sound right?

Macster

What the dealer tells you is correct.

However, remember, if it isn't in the owners manual, or Porsche hasn't released a TSB or service bulletin update, or whatever, it doesn't exist, except for some reason the "drive it like you stole it" and "they come with engine already broken in" and everyone's favorite "they all do that".

If dealer can't point out something specific in the manual that forbids or prohibits an early oil/filter or any other fluid service there's no real reason you can't change the oil/filter now, if you want to.

It is your car. If you want the oil/filter sevice done now, as long as you are willing to pay for it, dealer should and will acommodate you.

The few times I've been told no or that I shouldn't (and I *know* there's no warning against doing so in the manual) I've thanked the dealer and insisted the car be booked in for the service I want done. If there's still some reluctance, and there almost always isn't, but if there is, I mention something along the lines I would prefer to have the work done here, along with all the other work I plan on having done to the car, but if the service department can't accomodate me on this simple reasonable service request, well then....

Never been turned away yet. Now I might not get it done right away, might have to schedule the oil/filter service, but this is usually just a day or so into the future, say if I show up on a Thursday, the service manager books me for Monday or a Tuesday.

Oh, one or two things you might be able to use to help bolster your case, if you want, is to note on the door tag the build date of the car. If its build date is going on one year from now you could arque the oil/filter service is due on time if not miles. Or if car close to being at the end of its break-in miles use that as justification. But really, no service department going's to flat out deny you this service.

Lastly, based on my experience and what I've observed the few times I've done an early oil/filter service myself on a new car I would recommend it.

If you can, arrange to be there when oil filter housing is being removed and have with you a small clean drain pan. Have tech dump oil from oil filter housing into the pan and look around and see what you can see. Have a nice camera with you that shoots pics in macro mode.

If you want, ask via PM and I'll post the pics I took of my 08 Cayman's oil filter housing oil from its first oil change at 750 miles.

Oh, I just re-read your post and see you have 1400 miles on the car. I would have changed the oil at at least 1000 miles and again at 2000 miles, but 1400 is past 1000. You could wait until the 2000 mile mark or a bit less -- 1800 miles? -- and then have the oil/filter service done using as your reason that the engine's at or near the end of break-in and you don't feel comfortable upping the max. redline with the initial fill of oil and filter in the engine.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Macster

Here's a resized pic. That drain pan was clean clean clean.

Notice the lighter color in the oil in the top pic? That is from very fine -- I felt for it with my rubber gloved fingers -- metal shed by the engine.

The oil was changed at 750 miles and again at 1350 miles. The oil at 1350 miles had just the tiniest hint of metal bits in it, metallic sheen actually. Not enough that I thought would photograph well enough to see them so I didn't bother. As I mentioned the 2K mile oil change done at the dealership. Talking to tech and he said he's never looked at the filter housing oil. He did say that he has seen other filters in the condition mine was in. See 2nd pic.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Dino944

Hi Mdrobc1213 and Macster;

Thanks for the info regarding approximate cost of services. Its greatly appreciated. Also, thanks for the photos and service advice. In trying to determine which car my wife and I may want to add for some weekend fun this info might help us to make a decision as there are different things we liked about the Boxster S, the Elise, and the 993.

Thanks again for your input and advice.
Best regards,
Dino

dallison28

boxster maintenance isn't too bad. Mince has around 57k and i am planning the 60k service.
I am doing an oil change $85 for supplies
belt ~$30
plugs $50
plug o-rings ~$20
brake fluid flush & purchasing motive bleeder $70
air filter $25
cabin filter $25


Since i don't know when the coolant was done last, i may do that also. There are a few hoses that i may replace also since they ride close to the road and look a tad bit bloated.


This car is a blast to drive and i am enjoying the decent gas mileage.

The one thing that I find annoying is when i have the top up and looking to pass on the highway. I have to lean pretty far forward to make sure no one is next to me.

Dino944

Hi Dallison,

Thanks for the info on maintennance. It does not sound too bad, especially since it would not be a daily driver. I did enjoy a recent test drive of the Boxster S and it has a lot to offer. My wife and I are still trying to decide if we want to go with the Boxster.

As far as having to lean forward before passing on the highway, of the cars we are considering, the only one it would not really be an issue for would be if we chose a used 993.

Thanks again for your assistance.
Best regards,
Dino

lithium1330

I adjusts my mirror so to minimize the blind spot area.. and it has worked well. Although, I do find myself turning my head around once a while - force of habit from driving other cars, really - to check the blind spot. But it's rarely a problem for me.

Trevor Ely

For something that's nothing more than a fun car...I'd almost jump on the Elise!!

They are certainly raw, but it has some of the characteristics of a motorcycle in a safer and slightly more practical package!

The Boxster is obviously the more well-rounded car, but honestly for sheer driving pleasure, the Elise can't be beat!

Dino944

Hi Trevor,

The Elise really is an amazingly fun experience. Its quick, agile, and has a fun to drive factor is almost impossible to match.

Trying to be somewhat practical, if one can say that about considering a second sports car that will not see everyday use, the Elise has lots of drawbacks. Dealer network is weak, I hear mixed reviews about the service department of my nearest Lotus dealer which is still about 1.25 hrs from me (without traffic). Also, getting in and out of it is like performing oragami on myself. The opening between the tall side sill and hard top is so small, that in bending to enter the car I actually pulled a muscle in my neck the 1st time I got into the car (and I'm not very tall). Once inside its roomy enough and a blast to drive. But when you aren't even 40 and getting in and out is painful, I'm not sure its a car I could live with even on weekends.

But, I can say I did drive one and I gave it a chance. So at this point if we do get another sports car we are leaning toward a P car.

Best regards,
Dino