firesign

Porsche Cayman vs BMW 135i

The Cayman is way too cool...

David A

Cayman has a better chassis and the 135i is too heavy.

DMB14

I'll take the Cayman any day.

Charlie C

Without a doubt!

McGarrett

+1. Not even close.

MarekN

I spent all of last week in a 135i. It is quick, but does not have the feel of the Porsche. If you want, let me know what detail of the car interests you.

soltino

From today's L.A.Times; Highway 1 Section

I'll post the link next for the story that includes the "pretty" pictures (-%




E-mail message

From: s711onit@webtv.net(tino) Date: Wed, Mar 19, 2008, 12:12pm To: s711onit@webtv.net Subject: 135i Times
BMW
The 1-series compact coupe (in 135i and 128i trim) is the latest in a fairly robust line of cars from BMW.
RUMBLE SEAT
A BMW only a mama could love
Email Picture
BMW
The 1-series compact coupe (in 135i and 128i trim) is the latest in a fairly robust line of cars from BMW.
The 135i packs a lot of oomph into its little body, but those looks . .
.
By Dan Neil
March 19, 2008
Let's begin with a verity, an undeniable truth that is evident from 3 feet away or from the cold distance of outer space: The new 1-series BMW is ugly. Seriously ugly.
Ugly with X-wings locked in attack formation. Spare me your E.H. Gombrich or Helen Gardner. I know an ugly car when one blows past me at 100 mph.
Ugly cars are unusual, for very good reasons. Auto companies are vast organizations, with billions of dollars invested, and tens of thousands of employees, some of whom can actually see to pick out their own ties. Also, in an age of computer-aided design, virtual modeling and rapid prototyping, ugly can usually be rooted out and burned at the stake before the first tooling is purchased. Usually.
BMW 135i coupe
*click to enlarge
**Photo Gallery
2008 BMW 135i coupe
The 1-series compact coupe (in 135i and 128i trim) is actually the latest in a fairly robust line of ugly cars from the Werks. The coupe model follows three- and five-door versions that have been hugely successful in Europe and the rest of the world since 2004. The styling is a vestige of what BMW then called its "flame surfacing" design vocabulary -- though it has less the incandescence of fire than the weary drape of wet canvas. Or old skin. That's it. The 1-series looks like it needs a jowl lift to repair its prolapsed cheeks. Or perhaps a truss. With the downward bowed accent lines running along its flanks, this car looks like it has suffered a high-speed hernia. Meanwhile, I search the stars in vain for a reason the designers gave this car a notch-back design -- so that there is a discernible trunk in the back -- when it so plainly aches for a fastback. And, yes, one wonders how BMW Design could have let a talent such as myself get away.
Well, then, to recap: ugly. But I'm not so superficial that I would write off the 1-series with some subjective rant about styling. Oh, no. I have other reasons to torpedo this car.
I've always been an advocate of small, premium cars, such as the Audi A3, the Volvo C30 and the Mini Cooper S. And, over the years, as the 3-series has grown into the fully rigged gold-plated showboat it is, I have longed for a smaller, lighter, simpler BMW, something along the lines of the old 2002, or even the 318ti that sold in the U.S. from 1995 to 1999.
Who wants a poor man's BMW? A poor man, that's who.
So, what did I have in mind? I'd like a BMW a foot shorter than a 3-series, half a ton lighter and $10,000 cheaper. I'd like it to have a four-cylinder, high-pressure turbo engine, a six-speed gearbox, and I'd like the whole thing dipped, Achilles-style, in a track-ready minimalism.
And the new 1-series isn't it.
The 135i is, officially, smaller than the 3-series coupe: 8.9 inches shorter and 1.4 inches narrower. But that loss of dimension doesn't really get you much except a crick in your neck. Our topped-off 135i test model weighed a portly 3,420 pounds, a mere 137 pounds less than a similarly equipped 335i Coupe.
The reason? It's basically the same car squeezed into an undersized sheet-metal Speedo. The engine -- the unspeakably smooth and ridiculously potent 3.0-liter twin-turbo -- is the same. The front strut suspension and rear multi-link suspension are the same. Ditto the level of upfit and equipment levels. Virtually every interior component, in all its premium, czars-of-Russia glory, has been lifted from the 3-series parts bin. The result is a smaller car that weighs the same. This is not, generally speaking, a good thing. Worse yet, the 1-series really isn't much of a value proposition. Our test car priced out at $42,325, which is only $4,525 less than an identically optioned, better equipped and infinitely more attractive 335i Coupe. I suppose there are other cost-of-ownership issues such as insurance and so forth, but I think you'd have to be slightly mad to choose the 1-series over the otter-sleek and beautiful 3-series. Perhaps only if you can't reach the pedals in the bigger car.
A little shopkeeping: The 1-series will come in coupe and convertible form; automatic or manual transmission; turbocharged, as our test car, or with a naturally aspirated version of the 3.0-liter in-line six cylinder putting out 230 hp and 200 pound-feet of torque. The base price for the 128i coupe is $28,600, more if you want windows and tires.
The convertible 128i starts at $33,875, and the 135 ragtop fetches $39,875.
Is the 135i fast? Is Eliot Spitzer sleeping on the couch? It's completely and utterly bonkers with acceleration. Squeeze the throttle in first, second, third gear, and it feels like a great big rubber band being launched off the world's thumb. Huge, billowy bursts of get-gone narrow the view to a blurry vortex. The numerologists at Car and Driver recorded a 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds and a quarter-mile estimated time of 13.3 seconds. That means the 135i is quicker than the last-generation M3, which was clinically psychotic.
Meanwhile, the 135i's engine sound is so ferocious and bittersweet, so carnal and wicked, somebody ought to name a heavy-metal band after it: Velvet Chain Saw.
It's all about the engine: The two turbos are plumbed sequentially so that the small, low-inertia turbo is always spinning and the larger one is ready to pinwheel as rpm climbs, which means engine response is immediate and immense. Like all BMW gas engines these days, it's direct-injection for better efficiency and emissions. And it has wide-authority variable-valve timing, which is to say, the motor doesn't have "peak torque" caused by mechanical and volumetric limitations; instead, it has a mighty torque mesa, a great savanna of twist. Max torque of 300 pound-feet comes on at just 1,400 rpm and stays maxed until 5,000 rpm. Passing acceleration is comparable to, oh, a Ferrari.
Fantastic brakes, awesome steering (hydraulic, whereas most of the BMW line now has electric power steering assist), stupendous grip and dynamic balance. I love the mechanicals of this car. Well, I loved them before they got jammed into this ugly Size 8 Birkenstock.
dan.neil@latimes.com
2008 BMW 135i
Base price: $34,900
Price, as tested: $42,325
Powertrain: Twin-turbo direct-injection 3.0-liter SOHC in-line six with
variable-valve timing; six-speed manual transmission; rear wheel drive Horsepower: 300 at 5,800 rpm Torque: 300 pound-feet at 1,400 to 5,000 Curb weight: 3,420 pounds
0-60 mph: 4.7 seconds
Wheelbase: 104.7 inches
Overall length: 171.7 inches
EPA fuel economy (premium only): 17 mpg city, 25 highway
Final thoughts: The faster it goes, the better it looks.
**
*
*
*
****~~~ Big, butt Intimate, Community ~~~

soltino

You may have to register but it's very quick and free.


http://www.latimes.com/features/la-h...track=ntothtml


tino

equ

It's actually a very fast car, don't go about racing it in a straightline in your porsche (unless modded and shifting perfectly). As fun as a car with backseats could be, I really liked it. As much as I like my cayman, and I realize it's in a different class, I don't think I'd be able to cough up as much to pay for the cayman had the 135i existed then. It's going to hurt sales a bit. More power & 20k less.

GrantG

Yes, and for $2,200 more you can have 400hp and 425ft-lbs of torque with a Dinan tune that doesn't waive your warranty. It doesn't have the feel of a Porsche though (brakes are so sensitive that I had trouble modulating them and steering lacks feel and suspension lacks poise on rough pavement in corners).

It will kill a Cayman S in a straight line though...

Charlie C

But then who buys a Porsche to drive in a straight line? If I wanted to drive in a straight line, there's a lot of cars that are faster and much cheaper!

GrantG

There are people who do, but I am not one of them. For roughly double the price (both cars loaded), however, there's no reason the Cayman couldn't/shouldn't compete with a 1-series in a straight line and the corners, imho...

Charlie C

I agree with you on that one! But although the M Roadster is cheaper than the Cayman/Boxster cars, even even BMW prices their M Roadster much higher than the "1". Sports cars always seem to cost more to earn more profits for the car company and no one knows (or does) that more than Porsche!

There IS a cost for exclusivity.

equ

I know, I tested the 135i. The badge proud people who snob this car will get it handed over to them in a straight line. Even stock, a porsche (and not just cayman S's, but most porsches other than turbos and 997's) will have trouble keeping up, perhaps only just with perfect shifting.

Sure it lacks look, feel, lightness, low-CG and grip. I love my Cayman S, its balance and handling are something special. 135i reviewers who give it a 10/10 on steering have no idea. But it isn't that far behind in a slalom. For a non-purpose built car that seats 4, it performs wonderfully. It is sure to steal some sales and thunder.

GrantG

You are absolutely right about that. I am also surprised not to see more comments about the ridiculously over-boosted brakes. If you rest your pinky toe on the brake pedal, you're likely to go through the windshield - very difficult to modulate the (very powerful) brakes. They also force you to have a sunroof, so there is not enough headroom for me to wear a helmet.

There is some tough competition in the performance coupe segment right now, but every choice has some pretty significant compromises.

I like the Cayman S best for driving pleasure, but feel the price is too high, it needs an LSD, and I lament the passing of the days when every Porsche sportscar came with a race-bred dry-sump motor. It's still my favorite in the segment though (sub $60k sportscar/coupe)...