Cayman 5-speed vs 6-speed
10-05-2007, 11:54 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Cayman 5-speed vs 6-speed
I think I'm going to order me a Cayman soon. I want the base model (mainly because it gets better gas mileage but also because I don't think the S is worth $10,000 more) but I'd like to get the 6-speed. Problem is, you have to get it with PASM, which I don't want. I would probably put a bilstein coilover suspension on the car and lower it an inch or two.
To those of you with the 5-speed, are you happy with the gearing? Any opinions welcomed.
Paul
To those of you with the 5-speed, are you happy with the gearing? Any opinions welcomed.
Paul
10-06-2007, 07:17 AM
#2
Drifting
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Have you worked out what the difference in the gas milage actually means on an annual basis? If you are worried about the emissions, buy some carbon offsets, if yoiu are worried about the cost, then any Cayman is too expensive for you.
A more powerful car with a six speed gearbox often returns better miles per gallon than its less powerful 5 speed sibling.
Why don't you want PASM, what is wrong with PASM, as far as you are concerned?
Why do you want to fit a Bilstein system?
R+C
A more powerful car with a six speed gearbox often returns better miles per gallon than its less powerful 5 speed sibling.
Why don't you want PASM, what is wrong with PASM, as far as you are concerned?
Why do you want to fit a Bilstein system?
R+C
10-06-2007, 07:26 AM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Have you worked out what the difference in the gas milage actually means on an annual basis? If you are worried about the emissions, buy some carbon offsets, if yoiu are worried about the cost, then any Cayman is too expensive for you.
A more powerful car with a six speed gearbox often returns better miles per gallon than its less powerful 5 speed sibling.
Why don't you want PASM, what is wrong with PASM, as far as you are concerned?
Why do you want to fit a Bilstein system?
R+C
A more powerful car with a six speed gearbox often returns better miles per gallon than its less powerful 5 speed sibling.
Why don't you want PASM, what is wrong with PASM, as far as you are concerned?
Why do you want to fit a Bilstein system?
R+C
The Cayman has better gas mileage (indicated) than the S. After driving both, I don't think the S is worth the extra cost (they're both overpriced by about $6,000 in my eyes).
10-06-2007, 08:27 AM
#4
Drifting
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10-06-2007, 08:30 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
10-06-2007, 08:51 AM
#6
Drifting
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You told me the car is overpriced by $6,000 in your estimate, yet you still want one.
You want to modify the car before you have even bought it, and claim you would rather have an electric car, if you could handle the 'hassle' and wait.
So you are impatient and spendthrift, have you considered a Smart, I am delighted with mine, even thought I think its overpriced by aboiut $4.50 and still runs on stuff supplied by oil companies. Hey its a two seater, its convertible, and has a trick gearbox!
R+C
You want to modify the car before you have even bought it, and claim you would rather have an electric car, if you could handle the 'hassle' and wait.
So you are impatient and spendthrift, have you considered a Smart, I am delighted with mine, even thought I think its overpriced by aboiut $4.50 and still runs on stuff supplied by oil companies. Hey its a two seater, its convertible, and has a trick gearbox!
R+C
10-06-2007, 11:55 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Hardly. I'm willing to wait a few months, but not a whole year, for a car. As for the Smart car, I've considered it. They're going to be available here soon.
Now, back to my ORIGINAL questions about the 5 vs 6 speed gearing please...
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10-06-2007, 07:36 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I'm just afraid that it's not a tried and true innovation and I don't think it lowers the car enough. Having said that, is it possible and has anyone tried lowering a PASM equipped car by merely using new (and stiffer) springs to lower the car?
10-07-2007, 02:46 PM
#9
Paul,
Not the most informative answer but I can tell you that prior to the Bilstein dampers designed for PASM there were some people who lowered their PASM equipped cars with springs alone. Most of them were satisfied with the ride.
As for the gearing, I don't pretend to be a gear ratio expert (and I didn't stay in a holiday inn express last night either). I also can't give you a good answer about the 5 vs. 6 speed. However I can give you some impressions of the Cayman 6sp vs. the 996 6 spd (I had a 2001 996 for 3 years prior to my CS). In my experience the Cayman's 6-speed ratios take some getting use to as compared to the 996, at least in normal public driving conditions. For example, 2nd in the 996 was a sweet gear and very flexible in around town speeds, but with the Cayman I feel it is too tall (in fact too tall of gears in the middle gears are my biggest complaint about the CS). I have found for the quickest response in real world passing on 2 lane roads requires 3rd in the CS vs. 4th in the 996. It has taken some time to adjust my driving.
Not the most informative answer but I can tell you that prior to the Bilstein dampers designed for PASM there were some people who lowered their PASM equipped cars with springs alone. Most of them were satisfied with the ride.
As for the gearing, I don't pretend to be a gear ratio expert (and I didn't stay in a holiday inn express last night either). I also can't give you a good answer about the 5 vs. 6 speed. However I can give you some impressions of the Cayman 6sp vs. the 996 6 spd (I had a 2001 996 for 3 years prior to my CS). In my experience the Cayman's 6-speed ratios take some getting use to as compared to the 996, at least in normal public driving conditions. For example, 2nd in the 996 was a sweet gear and very flexible in around town speeds, but with the Cayman I feel it is too tall (in fact too tall of gears in the middle gears are my biggest complaint about the CS). I have found for the quickest response in real world passing on 2 lane roads requires 3rd in the CS vs. 4th in the 996. It has taken some time to adjust my driving.
Last edited by bet; 10-08-2007 at 02:05 PM.
10-07-2007, 04:06 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
.
There are a few kits available for PASM cars now and the interesting thing is that they offer several switch positions for the shocks as an alternative to the standard hard/soft settings.
This allows you to tune your shocks to suit the day as well as having lowered springs.
On the gear box, I haven't checked, but I suspect you might just be getting more gears rather than increasing your range. This will help acceleration through the gears but is probably not an addition for improving economy. The EPA figures for the 2,7 seem to back this up.
EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATINGS City 23/hwy 32 (2.7L engine/5-speed manual trans)
EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATINGS City 22/hwy 31 (2.7L engine/6-speed manual trans)
EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATINGS City 21/hwy 28 (2.7L engine/5-speed auto trans)
There are a few kits available for PASM cars now and the interesting thing is that they offer several switch positions for the shocks as an alternative to the standard hard/soft settings.
This allows you to tune your shocks to suit the day as well as having lowered springs.
On the gear box, I haven't checked, but I suspect you might just be getting more gears rather than increasing your range. This will help acceleration through the gears but is probably not an addition for improving economy. The EPA figures for the 2,7 seem to back this up.
EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATINGS City 23/hwy 32 (2.7L engine/5-speed manual trans)
EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATINGS City 22/hwy 31 (2.7L engine/6-speed manual trans)
EPA FUEL ECONOMY RATINGS City 21/hwy 28 (2.7L engine/5-speed auto trans)
10-07-2007, 09:57 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
10-07-2007, 09:58 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
On the gear box, I haven't checked, but I suspect you might just be getting more gears rather than increasing your range. This will help acceleration through the gears but is probably not an addition for improving economy. The EPA figures for the 2,7 seem to back this up.
10-09-2007, 11:48 AM
#13
Racer
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Paul, since this is an important issue for you, I think you ought to dig up a copy of the Panorama (PCA mag) from earlier this year (or was it last year, time flies!) which compared the 5 speed and 6 speed on a chart. This was near the front of the book. IIRC, the 5 and 6 speed have similar gearing in the first 3 gears and then 4-5-6 are sandwiched into the same zone as the 4-5 on the base unit. IIRC, the 5 speed is a VW sourced unit whereas the 6 speed is likely stronger, and reviews have said the 5 speed is a little vaguer.
FWIW, I like PASM on my 997.
Roundel (BMWCCA mag) had an editorial a while ago that explained why 250 is an ideal amount of hp. It is enough to make a car entertaining without overwhelming the driving experience with power. While this is coming from a 997S driver, I believe the base Cayman and Boxster are wonderful cars for street or track, and would consider them for a change if something were to happen to my car.
FWIW, I like PASM on my 997.
Roundel (BMWCCA mag) had an editorial a while ago that explained why 250 is an ideal amount of hp. It is enough to make a car entertaining without overwhelming the driving experience with power. While this is coming from a 997S driver, I believe the base Cayman and Boxster are wonderful cars for street or track, and would consider them for a change if something were to happen to my car.
10-09-2007, 12:27 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info and opinion. I've now decided that I would get the 6 speed with PASM on the base Cayman. I've done a lot of reading through the forums here and on other sites, and it looks like it's the right combination for me here in Los Angeles.
10-10-2007, 12:14 AM
#15
Racer
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SCCA auto-x thread
Paul,
You might be interested to read an SCCA Forums post from GH Sharp, a very experienced and talented autocrosser who purchased a Cayman S with PASM:
"I don't claim to be a world-class shock engineer, but IMO the PASM electronic shocks on the Cayman S that I drove are the best OE shocks I've ever driven on an autocross course. Although I won't argue that someone who knows their stuff might be able to improve on them, IMO that improvement would be really small in magnitude compared to what we assume with other OE shocks vs aftermarket ones for a Stock class car."
By aftermarket shocks he's including not just off-the-shelf units but also custom Penskes, Motons and the like. The complete thread contains a lot of talk about SCCA classing, but if you want to read it, its: http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/210238.aspx
- Ted
You might be interested to read an SCCA Forums post from GH Sharp, a very experienced and talented autocrosser who purchased a Cayman S with PASM:
"I don't claim to be a world-class shock engineer, but IMO the PASM electronic shocks on the Cayman S that I drove are the best OE shocks I've ever driven on an autocross course. Although I won't argue that someone who knows their stuff might be able to improve on them, IMO that improvement would be really small in magnitude compared to what we assume with other OE shocks vs aftermarket ones for a Stock class car."
By aftermarket shocks he's including not just off-the-shelf units but also custom Penskes, Motons and the like. The complete thread contains a lot of talk about SCCA classing, but if you want to read it, its: http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/210238.aspx
- Ted