356wannabe

The August Road & Track compares the two and finds they are about equal in terms of performance capabilities, zero -60, 1/4 mile, lap times, etc. The Evo also has 5 seat belts and a huge trunk. On the other hand it helps to have zits and a baseball cap on backwards if you drive the Evo. Nonetheless, the performance of the Evo is pretty impressive for about 1/2 the cost of the Cayman.

mooty

i dont own a evo, i drive a cayman. but let's be real here. for 2-3k bux, you can boost the evo such that it can drive circles around our caymans. it MAY blow the turbo up if you drove it for 60 min on the track under hot temp and hi boost, but hey, it's cheap to fix.

i have a lot of respect for evo and sti, but they dont light my fire. but performance is objective (more or less) and they are perf bargains no doubt.

CP

I am not trying to flame, but Porsche has never been the most 'bang-for-the performance-buck' kind of car. I think Porsche buyers are willing to pay the exhorbitant prices for 'perceived' attributes that comes with a Porsche.

Porsche is not alone in this marketing success, you can find parallel examples in all kinds of consumer goods: watches, jewelry, luggages, you name it.

CP

LastGT3

Speaking of consumambles, what does the the factory block cost for an Evo?
My impression is that on the track, the Sti and Evo will heat soak and then spiral after 60 min of use/abuse. I just do not think they are a value but just a misleading cheap entry point for further expense. Believe me, I would rather get cheap and good but I think that is not possible so I got a GT3.

Dale Gribble

^ not sure what a new block costs from the factory, but an aftermarket JDM version 8 that a colleague has (whole block new turbos, front suspension etc) was going for abour 12 Grand. I'm going to assume that the USDM engine is around the 10-12$ range but many can be found used. a standard WRX engine can be had for about 2-4 grand.

How much is a cayman engine?

10 GT3

If you are going to bring this up, why don't you look at Corvettes versus 911's (or the Cayman for that matter). I have seen normal option Cayman's sticker for $71K. How much is a Z06? Why buy an EVO, when you can get the same numbers out of a Neon SRT-4 with the optional "Stage 2" kit?

The answer is they are not apples to apples. They have different purposes. Why would you pay $150K+ for a Bentley GT, when it isn't even faster than a base Carrera? Same reason. This is really a pointless thread.

mooty

very true on sti and evo comments.
however, there is one cheap and durable track car. honda s2000. i have seen them raced HARD for 5 years with original motor. the engineering in that car is pretty incredible regardless of price, let alone the thing can now be leased for 300/month with min. drive off.

356wannabe

Speaking of car-mag comparos, this month's C & D matches the Cayman S with the new BMW Z4 M Coupe and the Cayman dominated, both on the track and off (where it was much more comfortable).

SchnellerUmsetzer

hahahahah

SchnellerUmsetzer

I can attest to this
Last week I set the cruse control behind a Black on Grey Caymen S on the Autobahn at 145 MPH. Out of respect with my 951 I saw no reason to go any faster then he was.
The Caymen S is another one of Porsche Superior road cars. Attmpeting to compare it to a "Economey Sports car" is a waste of time. An evo is not in the same league as a Caymen S.

ChrisF

Hello all. I've been a lurker here for a while now as I've been considering purchasing a Cayman S or a used C4S for a daily driver. I currently own an EVO VIII that is slowly turning into a dedicated track car. I felt I had to don my flame suit and wade in here.

First, to qualify, I've owned and tracked many fine sports cars from the RX7 TT, M Roadster, STi and the EVO. I am neither a pimply faced kid nor an inexperienced driver. While I respect greatly all of the P cars, I think that often times brand loyalists are blinded by zeal for their beloved cars and cannot muster an objective opinion. I think this is the case here given some of the comments. Here goes:

1) I will agree with some of you that in terms of refinement, presteige or design elegance, the EVO has little or none. It was not built to be those things. Those of us who actually value performance know why we buy EVO’s. It is a dual edged sword that it's low price allows some idiots to give it the pimply faced image that it seems to have. At the same time, it allows others to purchase a highly capable track monster.

2) With regards to factory consumables, an EVO block (which will rarely fail even at 400whp levels) is approx. $6000. For that cost, you can also have it stroked or bored to 2.4L. Brake pads are about 200/pr front, rotors are about 600 all around. New stock turbo $700; less on the used market. Stock and modded EVO’s have excellent track reliability.

3) While the STi with it’s top mount intercooler is prone to heat soak at the track, the EVO with it’s front mount, does not; even when running in excess of 25psi boost. I’ve even tracked the STi on the stock TMIC in 110 degree heat at Streets of Willow Springs and suffered no ill effects.

4) With basically an alignment, a rear sway bar, a set of Toyo RA1’s and a few light engine mods, the only P car that can show an EVO it’s tail lights is a GT3 or a well driven Turbo. This is not opinion; at most of the local tracks SoCal tracks the lap times bear this out. This is a very capable car. It is true, it is not in the same league, but unfortunately, it's performance is.

It saddens me that those of you who have the honor of owning some of the greatest sports cars the world has to offer can’t simply appreciate another great performance car without P’ing (sorry, couldn’t resist) all over it. For those of you who actually track your cars, please introduce yourself to an EVO owner the next time you track. You’ll be surprised what those ugly, unsophisticated, immature econoboxes are capable of.

mooty

chrisF, you are correct. see my posts above. i think the perf of evo and sti is phenominal. by as you mentioned due to it's price it holds a certain image... but perf is objective and even well driven GT3's up here in NCal is barely hanging on with evo and sti's. and once you boost them, it's pretty incredible.

but as all perf cars. if you dont it right it wont last. many sti's up here just run hi boost without maybe changes to fuel injectors, more intake air and other ancillaries. as i chased them or sometimes being chased (when in my GT3), after 30 min. they pit. when i chat with them, usually it's due to heat soak or just overheating. other than that and when properly tuned, it's much easier to drive then GT3 and it sure can hang with the $$$ porsches.

your response is truthful and well founded, i doubt you will be flamed. not all porsche guys are blind

FTS

Let me chime in to what Mooty and ChrisF mention.

Some period of time, a while back, I did quite a bit of tuning, professionally, for Evo and STi (more STi as it actually needs more help). When I mean tuning, it was primarily chassis, little bit of engine. The cars I prepared won several competitions nation-wide and in the local SCCA regions. My personal STi won the DC region ESP class championship against some very big names and dedicated track cars and won 11 trophies in Subaru Challenge competition in its first year of development. I am no longer in that business however.

The Evo engine block is very strong and can handle significant power increases. Its chassis is very compatible with various tuning approaches and simple modification can provide noticeable gains in terms overall handling. STi is similar but the Evo is a notch above IMO.

Couple of months ago, at the time attack at Beaverun, one the Evos I had the chace to work with did lap times of 1:08 - 1:09; where as several GT3s and 911 were slower. Mostly that was due to the drivers but it shows that the Evo and to some degree the STi can keep up with much more expensive cars in term of track performance; however, they really need serious tuning and adjustments to the level that they would nearly be out of street and dedicated track machines. At the same time, for one's track enjoyment, the Evo offers a very good deal/value.

However, I look this issue a little differently. We talk about Porsche's complete package and that is something you cannot ignore. It does, the 911 or Cayman or others, nearly everything perfectly. You take the car to business trips/meetings, go there in comfort and style, enjoy driving the car is any condition, and take it to track for enthusiatic driving matching Evo/STi/BMW performances out of the box.

The Evo comes up short. It is too ricey, too noisy, does not offer a pleasent driving environment and if you your customers or other executives to lunch, you are certain to loose the business. On track, the performance is great, but its reliability is not. Granted the engine can withstand abuse, it's transmission cannot. The whole drivetrain is very weak. Overall, the maintenance costs are bound to be very high with Evo for even periodic track duty, and that's not just the drivetraing but many other components within the chassis.

If you can only afford a sigle car in $30s, Evo is great buy, no question. But if can afford multiple cars the Cayman is in a different league. The driving enjoyment is not comparible to the Evo. The Evo even as a track-only toy does not make sense to me.

A spec Miata is an increadable choice for that IMO. Last winter, couple of freinds of mine built one. Bought a 1.6 ltr Miata off the street for $4K, brought it up to spec Miata rules with almost all new components and spend $4.5K including paint and voila... a gorgeous track car. Brake pads, $30/each; new door panel, $110, new shocks, $120/each --> limitless track fun. Believe me horsepower is overrated.

So, the Evo is very capable car, but it shine only during a brief period; where as the Cayman or any Prosche will shine nearly in any circumstance and in a reliable manner.

CP

Flying Toaster,

Great post and a voice of experience. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. To a certain degree, it's an universal truism. If there is another car (brand) that is identical to Porsches in driving/engineering attributes at half the price, Porsche would have gone under.

Now with all these tuning know-how under your belt, can you share your wisdom on how you would improve your Cayman S? Thanks for the education.

CP

FTS

I had no intentions of tuning the Cayman frankly when I bought it, I got it for personal enjoyment. However, two seperate companies made similar requests and I am reluctantly considering working with one or both of them. We'll see how it turns out.

IMHO, tuning, especially the chassis, we'll be tough to improve on; I am not talking about pure racing set up, but a compromise setup(s) for enthusiast that are not so much after club racing but serious trackers and autocrossers. It just cannot be done by putting on some aftermarket components. To really improve on it, a lot of testing and fine tuning needs to be done. And I am not sure that people have patience, time and money for it and I am not sure of the market potential for it; I certainly do not have the money portion