Extremely happy with PASM!
03-31-2006, 09:16 PM
#1
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Extremely happy with PASM!
The Cayman S is my 4th Porsche and this is the first great all around suspension of them all.
For daily driving the Normal mode is very, very, supple yet still very sporty. If you drive hard in this mode, the system does a great job of automatically switching to Sport mode so you truly get the best of both worlds.
Sport mode is significantly stiffer than Normal mode and is suitable mainly for track use or aggressive canyon carving. At slower pace driving it is quite choppy; fortunately, Normal mode is button press away
In comparison, the ROW Sport suspension in my 2000 Boxster S was closer to the Cayman's Sport mode; not quite as stiff. The 2004 40th Anniv was about halfway between Normal and Sport modes. The PSS9 in my 993 Turbo, when set to soft (2) is a bit stiffer than the Cayman's Normal mode. When set to stiff (8ish), it is stiffer then the Cayman's Sport mode.
So, at the track, the 993/PSS9 set to stiff is a bit better at the track than the Cayman/PASM set to Sport. The Boxster is a bit softer and the 40th Anniv is softer yet.
So, if you value comfort for daily driving with the ability to have a really nice but not optimal suspension setting for the track, I think PASM is great.
If you need a stiffer suspension at the track, you'll need to wait for PASM compatible springs and someone to review the setup, or go for a non-PASM car and get a good adjustable aftermarket suspension; I'm guessing if the PSS9 becomes available for the Cayman, that it will be a decent setup. Obviously, JRZ, Moton and other similar choices are even more hardcore
Anway, given my Cayman is a daily driver and only an occassional track toy, I am very happy with PASM!
[EDIT - My 40th Anniv also had ROW sport suspension]
For daily driving the Normal mode is very, very, supple yet still very sporty. If you drive hard in this mode, the system does a great job of automatically switching to Sport mode so you truly get the best of both worlds.
Sport mode is significantly stiffer than Normal mode and is suitable mainly for track use or aggressive canyon carving. At slower pace driving it is quite choppy; fortunately, Normal mode is button press away
In comparison, the ROW Sport suspension in my 2000 Boxster S was closer to the Cayman's Sport mode; not quite as stiff. The 2004 40th Anniv was about halfway between Normal and Sport modes. The PSS9 in my 993 Turbo, when set to soft (2) is a bit stiffer than the Cayman's Normal mode. When set to stiff (8ish), it is stiffer then the Cayman's Sport mode.
So, at the track, the 993/PSS9 set to stiff is a bit better at the track than the Cayman/PASM set to Sport. The Boxster is a bit softer and the 40th Anniv is softer yet.
So, if you value comfort for daily driving with the ability to have a really nice but not optimal suspension setting for the track, I think PASM is great.
If you need a stiffer suspension at the track, you'll need to wait for PASM compatible springs and someone to review the setup, or go for a non-PASM car and get a good adjustable aftermarket suspension; I'm guessing if the PSS9 becomes available for the Cayman, that it will be a decent setup. Obviously, JRZ, Moton and other similar choices are even more hardcore
Anway, given my Cayman is a daily driver and only an occassional track toy, I am very happy with PASM!
[EDIT - My 40th Anniv also had ROW sport suspension]
Last edited by pstoppani; 03-31-2006 at 10:56 PM.
04-08-2006, 11:33 PM
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Does anyone know how many miles the PASM shocks are good for, and how much replacement units cost? I drove a PASM equipped Cayman S last week and loved the feature - I'm just curious to know how much the inevitable replacement of worn PASM shocks would cost.
04-08-2006, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by soltino
Great stuff, how much overlap have you found between the Sport and Normal?
I think i read that there was some; but very little.
tino
I think i read that there was some; but very little.
tino
04-09-2006, 01:13 AM
#6
To the extent that Normal adjusts to Sport would be the overlap i think i read about.
Vice versa, of course.
Numerically:
With 10 being the softest setting;
If Normal's range is 10 to 4.8, and Sport is 5.2 to 0, then .4 would be the overlap.
I'll try to track down the article i read that mentioned the "overlap".
tino
Vice versa, of course.
Numerically:
With 10 being the softest setting;
If Normal's range is 10 to 4.8, and Sport is 5.2 to 0, then .4 would be the overlap.
I'll try to track down the article i read that mentioned the "overlap".
tino
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04-09-2006, 02:48 AM
#8
I Googled: PASM Overlap, and the second one that came up included this:
"PASM has two setup modes, Normal? and Sport?, with only minimal overlap between the two. While the former is a mix of performance and comfort, the “Sport� setup mode has a much firmer range of settings for greater performance capabilities. The system responds to changing road conditions and/or driving styles by applying a variable damping force within the defined range for the selected mode (Normal? or Sport)."
The above is from the original article i had read.
tino
"PASM has two setup modes, Normal? and Sport?, with only minimal overlap between the two. While the former is a mix of performance and comfort, the “Sport� setup mode has a much firmer range of settings for greater performance capabilities. The system responds to changing road conditions and/or driving styles by applying a variable damping force within the defined range for the selected mode (Normal? or Sport)."
The above is from the original article i had read.
tino
04-09-2006, 02:08 PM
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Interesting that the above quote is from the PASM description for the 911. They removed the "minimal overlap" part from the PASM description for the Cayman S.
Clearly they use different maps which create a bias to the settings but I'm not sure why they would choose to make the overlap "minimal"; that seems odd.
I will have the croc at the track tomorrow so I'll drive it in both Normal and Sport modes to compare; in the past I always drove in Sport, but I find this experiment interesting... I'll post my "butt dyno" impressions of the two modes on a race track.
Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) is an electronic damping control system. Optional on the Cayman S, it offers continuous adjustment of the damping force at all four corners of the car.
The damping rates are adjusted throughout each journey based on current road conditions and driving style. Agility and driving pleasure are significantly enhanced while retaining the car’s natural ride quality. Equipped with PASM, the car rides 0.39 inches lower than with the standard steel-sprung suspension.
During each journey, the driver can choose one of two setup modes: ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport.' While the 'Normal' setting balances performance with comfort, the ‘Sport’ settings are generally much firmer, enabling greater agility on the racetrack. In either mode, the system responds to changing road conditions and driving style by applying the optimum damping rate on each individual wheel.
The rates are selected from a range of map options, which are specially adapted to the unique dynamics of the Cayman S.
The movement of the body is continuously monitored under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. Other sensors provide additional information on lateral acceleration, steering angle, brake pressure and engine torque. A dedicated control unit provides real-time analysis and damper adjustment as defined for the respective setup mode (‘Normal’ or ‘Sport’). The result: greater stability and more consistent occupant comfort.
If, when ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the quality of road surface drops below a certain threshold, the system immediately switches to a softer rating and restores the car’s traction and grip. When the road surface improves, PASM returns to the original, harder rating. The system remains active in ‘Normal’ mode, too, automatically switching to a harder rating if the car is driven more assertively. As the dampers become stiffer, the car becomes more stable and driver control is improved.
The damping rates are adjusted throughout each journey based on current road conditions and driving style. Agility and driving pleasure are significantly enhanced while retaining the car’s natural ride quality. Equipped with PASM, the car rides 0.39 inches lower than with the standard steel-sprung suspension.
During each journey, the driver can choose one of two setup modes: ‘Normal’ and ‘Sport.' While the 'Normal' setting balances performance with comfort, the ‘Sport’ settings are generally much firmer, enabling greater agility on the racetrack. In either mode, the system responds to changing road conditions and driving style by applying the optimum damping rate on each individual wheel.
The rates are selected from a range of map options, which are specially adapted to the unique dynamics of the Cayman S.
The movement of the body is continuously monitored under acceleration, braking and cornering maneuvers, as well as on poor road surfaces. Other sensors provide additional information on lateral acceleration, steering angle, brake pressure and engine torque. A dedicated control unit provides real-time analysis and damper adjustment as defined for the respective setup mode (‘Normal’ or ‘Sport’). The result: greater stability and more consistent occupant comfort.
If, when ‘Sport’ mode is selected, the quality of road surface drops below a certain threshold, the system immediately switches to a softer rating and restores the car’s traction and grip. When the road surface improves, PASM returns to the original, harder rating. The system remains active in ‘Normal’ mode, too, automatically switching to a harder rating if the car is driven more assertively. As the dampers become stiffer, the car becomes more stable and driver control is improved.
I will have the croc at the track tomorrow so I'll drive it in both Normal and Sport modes to compare; in the past I always drove in Sport, but I find this experiment interesting... I'll post my "butt dyno" impressions of the two modes on a race track.
04-11-2006, 03:43 AM
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Just had another fantastic day at the track with the croc!
My butt dyno says that Sport mode never gets close the the softness of Normal mode. However, Normal mode does get quite stiff at the track; not as stiff as Sport, but it seems that Normal will overlap Sport much more than the "minimal" amount in the above quote from Porsche's description of PASM for the Carrera S.
My butt dyno says that Sport mode never gets close the the softness of Normal mode. However, Normal mode does get quite stiff at the track; not as stiff as Sport, but it seems that Normal will overlap Sport much more than the "minimal" amount in the above quote from Porsche's description of PASM for the Carrera S.
04-16-2006, 02:19 AM
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Here is a nice graph from Porsche showing the overlap of Normal and Sport and standard suspension. Seems my butt dyno was accruate
Last edited by pstoppani; 01-30-2013 at 12:11 AM.
04-16-2006, 12:33 PM
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Vertical axis is basically the firmness of the damper. Horizontal axis is the speed at which the suspension is moving with the left end being slow suspension movement, such as when you cornering, and fast suspension movements moving to the right which is mainly bumps; typically the high speed suspension movements come from big bumps at high vehicle speeds.
They are showing the damper firmness characteristics under increasing suspension movement speeds for the standard suspension (blue line) and the PASM in Normal mode (green) and Sport mode (let's call that yellow).
PASM Normal is softer than standard suspension and PASM Sport is stiffer than standard. The overlap between Normal and Sport modes is shown by the yellow/green striped region which appears to be approximately 25% (not what I would call minimal).
PASM Sport has for the most part a fairly narrow range of automatic firmness adjustment while Normal has a very wide range of adjustment getting quite close to the firmness of Sport mode.
They are showing the damper firmness characteristics under increasing suspension movement speeds for the standard suspension (blue line) and the PASM in Normal mode (green) and Sport mode (let's call that yellow).
PASM Normal is softer than standard suspension and PASM Sport is stiffer than standard. The overlap between Normal and Sport modes is shown by the yellow/green striped region which appears to be approximately 25% (not what I would call minimal).
PASM Sport has for the most part a fairly narrow range of automatic firmness adjustment while Normal has a very wide range of adjustment getting quite close to the firmness of Sport mode.
04-16-2006, 03:36 PM
#14
Can a number be placed on where a non-PASM is in relation to the firmest and softest PASM, from this chart?
For example:
if the firmest in Sport is 0, and the softest in Normal is 10, then what is non-PASM?
Also, again trying to put numbers to this, and using a 10-0 Scale; would Softest be from 10 thru about 1.5, and Firmest from about 3.5 thru 0?
tino
For example:
if the firmest in Sport is 0, and the softest in Normal is 10, then what is non-PASM?
Also, again trying to put numbers to this, and using a 10-0 Scale; would Softest be from 10 thru about 1.5, and Firmest from about 3.5 thru 0?
tino
04-16-2006, 03:46 PM
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First, you have to realise that the answer to your question depends on where you are on the horizontal axis (suspension movement speed) because it varies.
Below, I've put numbers one particular spot on the horizontal axis which is some number of mm/sec in suspension travel speed. I've put 10 at PASM Normal and 0 at PASM Sport. At this particular speed, you can see that standard suspension is at firmess 3, as is the softest that Sport will go to. And, 1.5 is the firmest that Normal will go to. So, in this case, Normal is 10 - 1.5, Sport is 0 to 3 and standard is 3.
Now you just do the same any suspension speed and you'll get your relative suspension firmness (just pick 0 for the highest Yellow/Sport and 10 for the lowest green/Normal).
Below, I've put numbers one particular spot on the horizontal axis which is some number of mm/sec in suspension travel speed. I've put 10 at PASM Normal and 0 at PASM Sport. At this particular speed, you can see that standard suspension is at firmess 3, as is the softest that Sport will go to. And, 1.5 is the firmest that Normal will go to. So, in this case, Normal is 10 - 1.5, Sport is 0 to 3 and standard is 3.
Now you just do the same any suspension speed and you'll get your relative suspension firmness (just pick 0 for the highest Yellow/Sport and 10 for the lowest green/Normal).
Last edited by pstoppani; 01-30-2013 at 12:11 AM.