zumaron

I was at the dealer recently and asked the salesguy how the Reptile was selling. He said "umm.... not as well as we'd like. Mostly people new to brand asking if it comes in a convertable."

I thought that was the goal -- to draw new people to the brand and give boxster owners an upgrade path.

ClassJ

I think it is a really nice car and I drove one and its a blast but I still see something missing from porsche's lineup. And it is not a sedan thats for sure.

Their sales logic seems a bit off base to me. The car is simply an alternative for those people that want a hardtop but not a 911. I dont see it really pulling in many new faces to the dealers.

Biggest issue I see is in the practicality of the car, it is marginally more practical than the boxter, and some people want the convertible appeal especially if it is a nice weather only car. For example, the 944 I have handles great, has two small jump seats and a BIG practical trunk for a sports car.

My biggest issue so far with the cayman is that while it is a little practical than a boxter, an M3 (even though not direct competition) has a trunk, seats 5 small adults, and is on par as far as performance is concerned.

Mid engined cars are cool and all, but their advantages arent night and day anymore. I would still love to see porsche come out with a 400hp front engined something with a couple jump seats for kids/small adults in the back at around 65K. That would be something an M3 or other sports coupe driver would be interested in.

The true way to move caymans is to make a 400hp version availible from porsche as an 8-10K dollar option. That way, who ever wants a fast NA coupe goes for the cayman, whoever wants a rear engined car with 4 seats buys a 911. But porsche is too worried about outdoing their other cars.

Sometimes I think Ferrari has the right idea, they have their limited production <1000 cars for their top level buyers, but most of their models perform similarly and just offer different things to different buyers. 2 seats vs 4 seats, hardtop or spyder. etc.

pstoppani

I just traded a 2005 M3 with Competition Package for the Cayman S; the difference is definitely night and day in the fun factor department. I could care less if they might generate similar bragging rights. You simply can't make any front engined car look and feel like a mid-engined car.

Also, the Cayman is a sports car (as is the Boxster); 911 is a GT with 2.5 seats.

mooty

The car is simply an alternative for those people that want a hardtop but not a 911. I dont see it really pulling in many new faces to the dealers.
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ppl who want 911 will always buy 911 and look down on cayman/boxsters.
ppl woh actually drove 911 and cayman/boxster will most like want all of them.
they have NOTHING in common in terms of driving dynamic. NOTHING.
if cayman sells well, great. i dont mind seeing cayman come and go. if they dont sell well, that's fine too, i got enough caymen to last a decade.

the trunk space of cayman is SIGNIFCANLY bigger than boxster. i stuffed my road bike in it when i go ride. and most ppl dont buy porsche to be practical. at least i dont. boxster is a great convertable, i enjoyed my 2002 BoxS. however, it doesn't drive like a cayman at all. the structural rigidity is night and day different. you can have it all. if you like open cars, you give up some regidity. if you track the hell out of your cars, you need a tintop. again, it's best to have both.

M3 is NOT in the same league as any porsche. pete had e36 and e46, i had e36 heavily modded. no, they aren't the same if you really want to drive it hard. you have to put in at least 20k to get the thing to perform on track.


Mid engined cars are cool and all, but their advantages arent night and day anymore.
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actually it is very significant. try to follow a midengine car through some esses, watch how it transistion from left to right to left to right. all things equal a front motor'd car will not have a chance.

I would still love to see porsche come out with a 400hp front engined something with a couple jump seats for kids/small adults in the back at around 65K.
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i do too, but i dont think porsche will only keep escalate in prices.



The true way to move caymans is to make a 400hp version availible from porsche as an 8-10K dollar option. That way, who ever wants a fast NA coupe goes for the cayman, whoever wants a rear engined car with 4 seats buys a 911. But porsche is too worried about outdoing their other cars.
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they do, only it cost 450k and it's called CGT

ClassJ

Dont get me wrong here, I am not bashing the cayman, and I cant stand most BMW's. I drove a cayman with the 19" wheels and spring suspension and it felt great. Very impressive, and it sounded perfect. First car I have driven in a long time that put an ear to ear grin on my face.

I also have had seat time in family members E36 and E46 M3's. They never really did anything for me in terms of driving thrill. They feel just like a regular 3 to me until you are pounding on them. And I would always catch flack back from them when I would say that the 944 was more fun than the M cars, not nearly as fast. But IMO, a really fun car to drive that just sounds right.

All I was pointing out was performance similarities for the money.

As far as the GT, that is in a world of its own. One thing I cant stand about Porsche is their intentional holding back of the performance of their cars. If someone wants a 911 or a GT, they are going to buy one regardless of what the lower model levels perform at. How is holding yourself back a good thing? The actual cost between their different displacement engines cant be much.

Porsche should have thrown the largest NA motor they had into the cayman S, or at least have plans to do so in the future. It would be a mistake not to. How is protecting an inferior product by holding back a a better car a good thing?

Getting back to BMW, do you think that they are concerned about making the next M3 faster than the M6 because they are afraid of outdoing their higher end model? No, they are different cars for different tastes and people are going to buy what they like.

I think, part of the problem is that the 911, boxter, and cayman still look too similar to eachother. The cayman finally has some distinctivness to its own and has very nice lines, the 911 has its classic face back, but they are still visually alike in many ways to those that are not familiar to porsches.

Someone once described Porsche to me as a company that frustrates and delites their buyers at the same time by giving them only 90% of what the customer wants most of the time. Perfect example is coming out with the cayman and only boosting the HP marginally over the boxter. You can almost guarantee they tried larger engines in the car and purposly decided to go to a smaller one to "protect" the 911 after seeing the lap times. Frustrating to see a performance car being held back.

But that is just my .02,

BiggerTwin

You definitely have the track experience to back this statement up and when I pushed both cars on some back roads I could feel the difference and preferred the Cayman. However, at more moderate speeds, I found all the Porsches had a similar feel and X-Factor. While this board attracts the enthusiast driver, I would venture a guess that a large percentage of Porsche owners will never push their cars hard enough to find out about the dynamic differences in mid and rear engine placement.

ClassJ makes an interesting point about BMW not holding back an M3 for fear of embarrassing an M5 or M6. I think most M car buyers are driving enthusiasts and know what they want. I think Porsche has more prestige and is an aspirational car to more people; many who are not driving enthusiasts and are mostly looking for status, bragging rights and a pretty car. Those buyers will want the fastest and most expensive Porsche they can afford. While I don’t like Porsche’s marketing decision to hold back the Cayman, having a cheaper car outperform a more expensive one would confuse Porsche buyers more than BMW buyers. The BMW faithful know the 3 Series is the best driver’s car they make. Nobody wants to admit the same thing may be happening at Porsche right now. It will be interesting to see if the Cayman turns out to be a “mid level” Porsche or if it turns out to be a major evolution of the Porsche line. Putting a 3.8 motor or turbo in it would certainly test Darwin’s theory but it seems to be something Porsche is not willing to risk.

Alan

pstoppani

Actually, BMW does hold back the M3. They could have easily put the same M5 motor in the E46. In fact they did put that motor in the racing version of the M3! They waited until the M5/M6 moved up to the V10. Most buyers are much more sensitive the HP rating and number of cylinders in a car than the 0-60 times.

EVERY car company plays these same marketing games; Porsche is hardly unique.

fast1

There are two Porsche Dealers near me, and salesmen at both Dealers told me that they are selling Caymans but not nearly as many as they had hoped. Typically whenever a new model is released, it's tough to keep enough of them in stock to meet that initial demand. So at least in my area, there are plenty Caymans in stock.

http://len-stoler.porschedealer.com/...?model=987-120

centerpunch

I think for $10K less, the car would be about right.

BiggerTwin

Porsche held the initial cars after they were produced so that there would be cars in stock when the Cayman was released. Seeing how sports car season starts in about a month in snow country, I wouldn't place too much emphasis on national sales numbers until June or July.

Alan

BiggerTwin

Isn't that true of all Porsches?

long_beach_968

I work in sales at a local Porsche dealer in so cal. We have 4 open cars, but all are people who ordered cars and decided they cant afford, or bought a clk. but the traffic is steady. as with any dealer, we will allow a small discount if you purchase out of stock ($500-$1500 depending on the car) but ordered cars are purely sticker as with any 911

mooty

good luck selling your cayman at that kind of price.

fast1

Seeing how sports car season starts in about a month in snow country, I wouldn't place too much emphasis on national sales numbers until June or July.

I agree but this rule typically doesn't apply to a new release. The C6 Z06 has been out for about four months and the only Dealers that have them in stock are those that are asking $10K+ over MSRP. I haven't seen any Dealer markups on Caymans.

The Cayman without question will be a great track and AutoX car, but not many people participate in those events, and for the street the Z06 torque monster will be hard to beat.

BiggerTwin

My dealer sold 3 Caymans the first month and has a few in stock. I don't think Chevy dropped off 5 or 6 Z06s at every dealer.

For bragging rights or taking the trophy at the stoplight GP I can't think of any car under $100,000 that will compare to the über Vette. For back road fun I can't think of anything under $100,000 that will compare to a Cayman/Boxster. While others will disagree, I just sold my 400 hp C6 Corvette and voted with my wallet. Based on the constant stares from other people, the Cayman S is a real head turner and I don’t much care if I have an exclusive car years from now or get to wave at a lot of other satisfied Cayman owners.

Alan