Cayman S vs Exige C&D Article
#47
Originally Posted by pstoppani
I'm referring to the fit, finish and quality of materials and the durability. This is the first car that I've owned where bolts come loose and fall off, mud flaps fall off, gear lever breaks in your hand while shifting, rattles and buzzes, interior bits come loose because the are simply velcro'd together and the glue lost its grip only after a couple of months, body panels have ripples from the fiber-glass molds, the trunk leaks, etc.
Originally Posted by pstoppani
And it isn't like I own an exception; a quick search at elisetalk.com will show that these are common aspect of Elise ownership. Of course you don't read about any of this in the reviews...
#48
How's the elise chasis vis a vis torque capacity? Has Lotus done some mule testing for 350-400hp?
Think that that's a first step to making it durable and competitive to CaymanS and the next gen Cayman RS (or Cayman tuners - ala Cayman GTR @ 405 3.8l).
Think that that's a first step to making it durable and competitive to CaymanS and the next gen Cayman RS (or Cayman tuners - ala Cayman GTR @ 405 3.8l).
#49
Originally Posted by LastGT3
How's the elise chasis vis a vis torque capacity? Has Lotus done some mule testing for 350-400hp?
How about 580 hp? Lotus GT1
Both of these use the Elise/Exige chassis with different subframes and bodies, etc.
Originally Posted by LastGT3
Think that that's a first step to making it durable and competitive to CaymanS and the next gen Cayman RS (or Cayman tuners - ala Cayman GTR @ 405 3.8l).
#50
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Originally Posted by LastGT3
...or Cayman tuners - ala Cayman GTR @ 405 3.8l.
Cayman GTR to Debut at Sebring 12 Hour
2/13/2006 - Danbury, CT
Farnbacher Loles Motorsports will unveil the Cayman GTR at the legendary 12 Hours of Sebring race weekend, March 15-18. The limited edition GTR has been highly anticipated by both the Porsche faithful and the media. At the heart of the GTR is a Porsche 3.8 liter S or X-51 engine in either 375 hp or 405 hp variations. Drawing on Farnbacher Loles extensive racing success, the GTR also features a unique adjustable suspension designed to work in concert with the sizable increase in power.
From the outside, the GTR is easily identified by the new, aggressive Cup car inspired front end and 19” black center wheels. Farnbacher Loles has also created a proprietary rear spoiler which replaces the stock Cayman unit but still retains the height adjustability. Inside, the GTR displays hand-crafted leather accents to distinguish it from its less powerful siblings.
The GTR can be ordered as a complete vehicle or an existing Cayman can be converted to GTR specs. To learn more about the awesome GTR, contact Roger Garbow at Farnbacher Loles Motorsports, 203.798.2929 or Roger@FarnbacherLoles.com.
#51
Those are are nice - do we have cost or are they priced at CarerraGT levels.
I really question wether a superlight chassis designed to take 190-240hp with no torque can candle 580 hp without extensive re-design - ie that puppy is not the same car you can buy so it is not really comprable. I think Porsche takes yewars of evelution to get a chassis weight to handle power, and so does Lotus. More power = more weight to handle the power.
With power escalation/inflation - I really need to be circumspect about what I spend my dough on.
The Lotus Exige Sport is a race car 1-off, using a racing tranny and a carbon fibre body - Think that Lotus will sell you one for the price of a CaymanS or even the cost of 997GT3? Keep dreaming.
Same with that LotusGT1 - a one off.
If you want to use race examples withy fully modified non-stock non street chassis - start with Ruff and move up the food chain.
I am not against the lotus per say, but really, it got its hat handed to it that article in R&T by over 2 seconds against the luxo caymanS - not good at all.
Lotus needs power now.
I really question wether a superlight chassis designed to take 190-240hp with no torque can candle 580 hp without extensive re-design - ie that puppy is not the same car you can buy so it is not really comprable. I think Porsche takes yewars of evelution to get a chassis weight to handle power, and so does Lotus. More power = more weight to handle the power.
With power escalation/inflation - I really need to be circumspect about what I spend my dough on.
The Lotus Exige Sport is a race car 1-off, using a racing tranny and a carbon fibre body - Think that Lotus will sell you one for the price of a CaymanS or even the cost of 997GT3? Keep dreaming.
Same with that LotusGT1 - a one off.
If you want to use race examples withy fully modified non-stock non street chassis - start with Ruff and move up the food chain.
I am not against the lotus per say, but really, it got its hat handed to it that article in R&T by over 2 seconds against the luxo caymanS - not good at all.
Lotus needs power now.
#52
Originally Posted by LastGT3
Those are are nice - do we have cost or are they priced at CarerraGT levels.
Originally Posted by LastGT3
I really question whether a superlight chassis designed to take 190-240hp with no torque can candle 580 hp without extensive re-design - ie that puppy is not the same car you can buy so it is not really comprable.
Originally Posted by LastGT3
I think Porsche takes years of evolution to get a chassis weight to handle power, and so does Lotus. More power = more weight to handle the power.
Originally Posted by LastGT3
The Lotus Exige Sport is a race car 1-off, using a racing tranny and a carbon fibre body - Think that Lotus will sell you one for the price of a CaymanS or even the cost of 997GT3? Keep dreaming.
Same with that LotusGT1 - a one off.
Same with that LotusGT1 - a one off.
Originally Posted by LastGT3
If you want to use race examples withy fully modified non-stock non street chassis...
Originally Posted by LastGT3
I am not against the lotus per say, but really, it got its hat handed to it that article in R&T by over 2 seconds against the luxo caymanS - not good at all. Lotus needs power now.
Last edited by MickOpalak; 02-17-2006 at 11:34 PM.
#54
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Originally Posted by MickOpalak
How about 400 hp? Lotus Sport Exige
How about 580 hp? Lotus GT1
Both of these use the Elise/Exige chassis with different subframes and bodies, etc.
The chassis used in the Elise and Exige has been professionally raced for almost 10 years now.
How about 580 hp? Lotus GT1
Both of these use the Elise/Exige chassis with different subframes and bodies, etc.
The chassis used in the Elise and Exige has been professionally raced for almost 10 years now.
#55
Originally Posted by pstoppani
The Exige was on r-compound tires. I'd guess the Cayman would "stick like quick-dry paint" on the same 048R tires.
#56
Originally Posted by pstoppani
Those cars have full race cages in them which greatly stiffen the chassis. It isn't clear how much power a completely stock Elise chassis can handle.
#57
Hey - no argument from me ..those are one-offs and you are correct they had that extra power mounted in them. However, do you think i would risk my cash on that chassis designed for one power output and then shove 580hp in it and pray. Then again, I expect my car to take hard use with fixing an perhaps I have unfair expectations.
If I do not care if the Lotus Sport or GT1 lasts 100,000miles, sure a disposable fun car. But thats why I like the porsche engineering evolution and factory warranty in the Porsche.
More specifically on that C&D , I think the actual track analysis speaks for itself at p.78 C&D. That CaymanS was running the same street tires I run on the track, Michelin PSII's - a non-R tire for this C&D test.
Somebody will need to confirm the Exige tire Yoko Advan A048 spec vs the PSII's - If that A048 is an R tire - it is worth about 3 seconds at my track. Tirerack says the Yoko Advan A048 is "The ADVAN A048 is Yokohama's DOT-Legal Competition tire designed for the drivers of vehicles who participate in autocross competition, track schools, lapping days and circuit-type club racing."
Ouch - it seems that that lotus will be an additional 3 seconds slower if the CaymanS was running its comprable R-compound DOT tires, MPSC (Michelin Pilot Sport Cups)..
So, again, the only issue here is that we differ in perspective, and I respect the lotus, it is light, feels light and its bare to the essentials.
I respect the CaymanS since it is entire package and seems to me, not fair compraison to the Lotus Exige- The CayaS is heavyweight with different feel and street luxuries - that you pay for with price differnce.
The Ariel Atom is the right car to comprare to an Exige - stripped and bare bones. I would love to know if such a comparison test exists.
Hey, its only my $0.02 since I do not own either but have run against the Exige with about the honda motor (as C&D says at p.77 "I wish Lotus had used the honda powertrain".) and can tell you it needs Power, about 100hp to be competitive.
Again, I think the CaymanS needs power as well- a GT3 motor pretty please.
If I do not care if the Lotus Sport or GT1 lasts 100,000miles, sure a disposable fun car. But thats why I like the porsche engineering evolution and factory warranty in the Porsche.
More specifically on that C&D , I think the actual track analysis speaks for itself at p.78 C&D. That CaymanS was running the same street tires I run on the track, Michelin PSII's - a non-R tire for this C&D test.
Somebody will need to confirm the Exige tire Yoko Advan A048 spec vs the PSII's - If that A048 is an R tire - it is worth about 3 seconds at my track. Tirerack says the Yoko Advan A048 is "The ADVAN A048 is Yokohama's DOT-Legal Competition tire designed for the drivers of vehicles who participate in autocross competition, track schools, lapping days and circuit-type club racing."
Ouch - it seems that that lotus will be an additional 3 seconds slower if the CaymanS was running its comprable R-compound DOT tires, MPSC (Michelin Pilot Sport Cups)..
So, again, the only issue here is that we differ in perspective, and I respect the lotus, it is light, feels light and its bare to the essentials.
I respect the CaymanS since it is entire package and seems to me, not fair compraison to the Lotus Exige- The CayaS is heavyweight with different feel and street luxuries - that you pay for with price differnce.
The Ariel Atom is the right car to comprare to an Exige - stripped and bare bones. I would love to know if such a comparison test exists.
Hey, its only my $0.02 since I do not own either but have run against the Exige with about the honda motor (as C&D says at p.77 "I wish Lotus had used the honda powertrain".) and can tell you it needs Power, about 100hp to be competitive.
Again, I think the CaymanS needs power as well- a GT3 motor pretty please.
#58
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Originally Posted by MickOpalak
And I'd guess that the Exige would beat the Cayman down the long back straight if it had the Cayman's engine. You can play what-ifs all day but I'm gonna stick to the article as it was published.
2) Any serious track junkie will put R-Compounds on their Cayman (I know I will)
Tires are more important than just about anything you can do to your car for maximizing performance. To dismiss the tire difference is a bit naive.
#59
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Originally Posted by MickOpalak
The fine folks at ForceFed will sell you a turbo kit for the Elise or Exige that produces 400 hp and doesn't require any additional chassis stiffening. The cages added to the race cars are for driver safety.
2) Yes, cages are primarily for driver safety, but they for a fact have a significant chassis stiffening side-effect that cannot be dismissed.
#60
Originally Posted by pstoppani
1) I think changing tires is wee bit differnt than changing engines.
2) Any serious track junkie will put R-Compounds on their Cayman (I know I will)
Tires are more important than just about anything you can do to your car for maximizing performance. To dismiss the tire difference is a bit naive.
2) Any serious track junkie will put R-Compounds on their Cayman (I know I will)
Tires are more important than just about anything you can do to your car for maximizing performance. To dismiss the tire difference is a bit naive.
I am not dismissing the difference. I don't think you're seeing my point. I'm just trying to keep the conversation to the article and the test as it was done. I want to try to stay away from adding any possible mods into the mix. That being said, the test was conducted with both cars running on their stock tires. Tires put on at the factory. If Lotus chose a street legal R-compound tire and Porsche chose a different compound tire, that's how they should be tested.