Drove Cayman S Today
#31
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Olav: It was my first driving experience in a mid-engine car with that much hp. I've driven a first generation Boxster with barely over 200 hp. Great in the curves, but no charge coming out. I haven't driven the 240 and 280 hp versions, but I can imagine how much improved they are. The mid-engine made the Cayman more attractive to me than the 997.
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Jim,
I'm very glad to hear you are happy with the Cayman. For some it's about the time, for others it's about the experience. The Cayman really is a great handling car as I confirmed in my original post.
My personal complaint was the lack of drama, noise and visceral feel. If I was looking for a car to inspire confidence that would give me the best time on the track with less amount of driver intervention, the Cayman would win hands down over the RSA.
I often drive on the track as part of my job with several different cars. I'm just one that likes a very engaging driving experience. I'm not a fan of stability control and if it has AWD it needs to be rear biased.
Drive Safe and ENJOY!
I'm very glad to hear you are happy with the Cayman. For some it's about the time, for others it's about the experience. The Cayman really is a great handling car as I confirmed in my original post.
My personal complaint was the lack of drama, noise and visceral feel. If I was looking for a car to inspire confidence that would give me the best time on the track with less amount of driver intervention, the Cayman would win hands down over the RSA.
I often drive on the track as part of my job with several different cars. I'm just one that likes a very engaging driving experience. I'm not a fan of stability control and if it has AWD it needs to be rear biased.
Drive Safe and ENJOY!
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My personal complaint was the lack of drama, noise and visceral feel.
___________
have you had a chance to wring one out?
it's has noises, as loud as my gt3. get it above 6k rpm.
it has drama, you can do very controlled 4 wheel drift right to the exit berm much more precisely than any carerra.
it does lack some visceral impact of older carerras.
If I was looking for a car to inspire confidence
______________
yes and no.
below 8/10, it's more confidence inspiring than carerras, at 9/10-10/10, it's much much harder to drive than 911. almost impossible to save unlike 911's you can still have a chance to plant the rear with throttle.
___________
have you had a chance to wring one out?
it's has noises, as loud as my gt3. get it above 6k rpm.
it has drama, you can do very controlled 4 wheel drift right to the exit berm much more precisely than any carerra.
it does lack some visceral impact of older carerras.
If I was looking for a car to inspire confidence
______________
yes and no.
below 8/10, it's more confidence inspiring than carerras, at 9/10-10/10, it's much much harder to drive than 911. almost impossible to save unlike 911's you can still have a chance to plant the rear with throttle.
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Just wrapped up the Cayman test drive at the launch event. First impressions are as you might expect - It's a great driver. Where it surprised me was the following:
It was torquier at low RPM than I expected, pully smoothly even from 35mph in 4th gear. This may a be partially a function of gearing, but it was surprising. Acceleration was linear and strong and I'm sure even the base suspension would comfortably handle 25% more HP and torque.
I could detect no chassis flex at all but granted, I did not push the car hard as conditions were wet. PA roads are not great and there were no rattles or squeaks w/ the 19" Carrera Classics.
The sound above 4K rpm was very mechanical and got better as rev's built from there. A much harder edge than I had expected even without Sport Chrono.
Visibility was extremely good out all angles - Small blind spot behind the C pillar, but not bad.
It's still $10K too expensive but it's very user friendly and would be a great daily driver, especially in the base configuration. I'd go with Xenons and red seatbelts that might be about it.
Looking forward to other comments.
It was torquier at low RPM than I expected, pully smoothly even from 35mph in 4th gear. This may a be partially a function of gearing, but it was surprising. Acceleration was linear and strong and I'm sure even the base suspension would comfortably handle 25% more HP and torque.
I could detect no chassis flex at all but granted, I did not push the car hard as conditions were wet. PA roads are not great and there were no rattles or squeaks w/ the 19" Carrera Classics.
The sound above 4K rpm was very mechanical and got better as rev's built from there. A much harder edge than I had expected even without Sport Chrono.
Visibility was extremely good out all angles - Small blind spot behind the C pillar, but not bad.
It's still $10K too expensive but it's very user friendly and would be a great daily driver, especially in the base configuration. I'd go with Xenons and red seatbelts that might be about it.
Looking forward to other comments.
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I just drove the Cayman S this morning at my dealer -- 18 inch rims, no PASM, no Chrono package. I've got a 93 RS America, had other Porsches including Boxsters, done some track time, schools, etc. My impressions are that Porsche missed an important opportunity here. I'm not one to care much about big horsepower so no complaints there. What really bugs me is the driving experience, which is alright but not what I was hoping for given the rave reviews and web forum drooling. Of course, compared to other contemporary offerings by other brands it's not bad, but to me it really is missing something --engine note/exhaust not very loud, steering much too light for my taste, non-PASM suspension ridiculously soft with lots of body roll. I drove it fairly hard but to me the whole experience just seemed a little lacking. I really detect little improvement over the Boxster in the driving experience department. It's a very nice car, and as the other JR said would make a good daily driver just as the Boxster makes a nice daily driver. I was fully prepared to purchase one to complement the RSA (convinced the wife we could live without my 4 door sedan), but now I don't know. Even with the PASM, I don't think there would be enough there for me. I expected more visceral appeal, even sharper steering. If you want a hard-top Boxster you are in luck.
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It was torquier at low RPM than I expected, pully smoothly even from 35mph in 4th gear.
___________
i felt the same here. 4th gear is a bit too tall however.
Acceleration was linear and strong
__________
did you get it over 6k rpm. now that's some "sound"....
I could detect no chassis flex at all but granted,
_____________
hit a speed bump hard, you will hear the hatch tweek ever so slightly.
PA roads are not great and there were no rattles or squeaks w/ the 19" Carrera Classics.
__________________
19" classic... hum... is the car basalt black ;-)
yes, no squeaks or rattles except when you hit a speed bump hard and the tweeking on hatch.
it's felt more solid than my 996's.
The sound above 4K rpm was very mechanical and got better as rev's built from there. A much harder edge than I had expected even without Sport Chrono.
___________
LOL, i see you got the the G spot ;-)
i tried cars with and without sport chrono. i like it without, parthly b/c i hate the wart on the dash.
It's still $10K too expensive but it's very user friendly and would be a great daily driver, especially in the base configuration. I'd go with Xenons and red seatbelts that might be about it.
__________
my is $66630. xenon, 19" ( i came that way, i am flipping to 18"), sport seat, metallic paint. butt warmer, i think that's it.
i think the price is just right, unless you option it to over 70k.
___________
i felt the same here. 4th gear is a bit too tall however.
Acceleration was linear and strong
__________
did you get it over 6k rpm. now that's some "sound"....
I could detect no chassis flex at all but granted,
_____________
hit a speed bump hard, you will hear the hatch tweek ever so slightly.
PA roads are not great and there were no rattles or squeaks w/ the 19" Carrera Classics.
__________________
19" classic... hum... is the car basalt black ;-)
yes, no squeaks or rattles except when you hit a speed bump hard and the tweeking on hatch.
it's felt more solid than my 996's.
The sound above 4K rpm was very mechanical and got better as rev's built from there. A much harder edge than I had expected even without Sport Chrono.
___________
LOL, i see you got the the G spot ;-)
i tried cars with and without sport chrono. i like it without, parthly b/c i hate the wart on the dash.
It's still $10K too expensive but it's very user friendly and would be a great daily driver, especially in the base configuration. I'd go with Xenons and red seatbelts that might be about it.
__________
my is $66630. xenon, 19" ( i came that way, i am flipping to 18"), sport seat, metallic paint. butt warmer, i think that's it.
i think the price is just right, unless you option it to over 70k.
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basalt black on black
xenon, 19" (not by choice, new donuts coming soon), sport seats. some small useless crap that came with the car. but as you know, i have no patience and i will never order a car either.
when do i take delivery.... hahhaaha, you obvioulsy dont' know me. it's been in my garage since tuesday. 800 miles and coujting. if mia wasn't around, it would see 2000 miles by now. the boxS just cleared 1200 miles.
xenon, 19" (not by choice, new donuts coming soon), sport seats. some small useless crap that came with the car. but as you know, i have no patience and i will never order a car either.
when do i take delivery.... hahhaaha, you obvioulsy dont' know me. it's been in my garage since tuesday. 800 miles and coujting. if mia wasn't around, it would see 2000 miles by now. the boxS just cleared 1200 miles.
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Originally Posted by jlr
I've got a 93 RS America...the driving experience, which is alright but not what I was hoping for...Of course, compared to other contemporary offerings by other brands it's not bad, but to me it really is missing something
Alan
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I assume that explains the spirited "test drive" steering through the side windows!
_________
thanx.
after that, i thought i must have it.
day two, i went and bug the dealer to no end.
_________
thanx.
after that, i thought i must have it.
day two, i went and bug the dealer to no end.
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Alan,
I think I may have just been in a bad mood on the day of my test drive. Thinking I had temporarily gone insane for disliking a mid-engined Porsche, I returned to the dealership a few days later to test drive a PASM equiped Cayman and was much much more impressed with the handling. And, you know the steering isn't that bad either, and really...the exhaust note is quite nice. Anyway, I will keep the RSA, but admit to posting in haste. Whatever the car gives up in visceral feel, it makes up in laser like precision. Enjoy your laser beam.
John
I think I may have just been in a bad mood on the day of my test drive. Thinking I had temporarily gone insane for disliking a mid-engined Porsche, I returned to the dealership a few days later to test drive a PASM equiped Cayman and was much much more impressed with the handling. And, you know the steering isn't that bad either, and really...the exhaust note is quite nice. Anyway, I will keep the RSA, but admit to posting in haste. Whatever the car gives up in visceral feel, it makes up in laser like precision. Enjoy your laser beam.
John
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I've always tended to disregard 0-60 times as being more a factor of gearing, traction, and of course, sufficient HP. A better measure of HP/weight is the MPH at the end of the 1/4 mile. That said, rear engine cars tend to have an advantage in the traction department for the 0-60 times.
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John, I have to agree with you. I finally drove a 987S a few weeks ago and Cayman yesterday, both w/19” wheels and stock suspension. The word I would use is numb in comparison to 986, 996, 993 et al. Felt like I was in some sort of cocoon, insulated from the road. My 986S with 17” wheels feels like a tighter ride. Ditto the 996 w/17s. I believe the body roll you described is a softening of the suspension which is required in order for the 19” wheels to negotiate moguls the way it does. It just sucks up bumps too easily.
Anyone drive 18s yet? I drive a lot on urban roads which means the 19s will be extremely vulnerable. In order to negotiate the situation I’m wondering if perhaps 18s with PASM in sport mode would do the trick? Can’t find that combo to test yet. I really don’t want PASM though. IMO we needed it like a hole in the head.
It’s funny how Porsche doles out crumbs of power and is trying to position Cayman as its own entity. This price difference between the Boxster S and Cayman is ridiculous. The power is totally indiscernible IMO. It’s amazing how they can attempt to flip flop the coupe/convertible price relationship. I don’t care what times were posted at the Nurburgring with the Boxster Coupe... uh, excuse me... Cayman S. You have to jump to a Carrera to feel a significant difference in power in real-world driving, particularly torque at lower speeds.
OK, I may be able to love the one I’m with, but I’m thinking how nothing can bring back the splendor in the grass, perhaps lamenting it. I don’t know, I may move forward, maybe backward, may stay the same... we’ll see. But I really don’t like this 19” wheel situation with softer stock suspension. For what, bling? The Conestoga-wagon look is bling?
On a more positive note, I did like the gearbox and think I can get to like the subtle variable steering ratio as opposed to BMW’s radical in-your-face setup. Cayman and Boxster are still great drivers but I don’t find them to be unequivocally better than their predecessors. They are just muddying the waters with all of this newfangled bull**** which I have to believe is designed mainly to extort money from us. According to all of the hype, I was expecting to find butt-kicking out-of-the box performance but was somewhat let down. It was really surprising feeling a little too good about getting back into my 986S.
Hmm, love the one you’re with. I’ll have to think about that further and try to make sense of what “remains”. Hey, anyone can quote William Wordsworth without implication, but citing a Stephen Stills lyric suggests one thing, Alan. Me thinks you’re around my age! No... did not go to Woodstock… always hated crowds
Anyone drive 18s yet? I drive a lot on urban roads which means the 19s will be extremely vulnerable. In order to negotiate the situation I’m wondering if perhaps 18s with PASM in sport mode would do the trick? Can’t find that combo to test yet. I really don’t want PASM though. IMO we needed it like a hole in the head.
It’s funny how Porsche doles out crumbs of power and is trying to position Cayman as its own entity. This price difference between the Boxster S and Cayman is ridiculous. The power is totally indiscernible IMO. It’s amazing how they can attempt to flip flop the coupe/convertible price relationship. I don’t care what times were posted at the Nurburgring with the Boxster Coupe... uh, excuse me... Cayman S. You have to jump to a Carrera to feel a significant difference in power in real-world driving, particularly torque at lower speeds.
OK, I may be able to love the one I’m with, but I’m thinking how nothing can bring back the splendor in the grass, perhaps lamenting it. I don’t know, I may move forward, maybe backward, may stay the same... we’ll see. But I really don’t like this 19” wheel situation with softer stock suspension. For what, bling? The Conestoga-wagon look is bling?
On a more positive note, I did like the gearbox and think I can get to like the subtle variable steering ratio as opposed to BMW’s radical in-your-face setup. Cayman and Boxster are still great drivers but I don’t find them to be unequivocally better than their predecessors. They are just muddying the waters with all of this newfangled bull**** which I have to believe is designed mainly to extort money from us. According to all of the hype, I was expecting to find butt-kicking out-of-the box performance but was somewhat let down. It was really surprising feeling a little too good about getting back into my 986S.
Hmm, love the one you’re with. I’ll have to think about that further and try to make sense of what “remains”. Hey, anyone can quote William Wordsworth without implication, but citing a Stephen Stills lyric suggests one thing, Alan. Me thinks you’re around my age! No... did not go to Woodstock… always hated crowds
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#45
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Originally Posted by designman
I finally drove a 987S a few weeks ago and Cayman yesterday, both w/19” wheels and stock suspension. The word I would use is numb in comparison to 986, 996, 993 et al. ... My 986S with 17” wheels feels like a tighter ride. ... I believe the body roll you described ... I drive a lot on urban roads which means the 19s will be extremely vulnerable. ... IMO we needed [PASM] like a hole in the head. ... between the Boxster S and Cayman ... power is totally indiscernible IMO.
I love my 993 on the street & on the track. I would not consider buying a 987S, a 996, nor a 997 to replace it. However, I am seriously considering a Cayman, subject to some more seat time & perhaps some track laps. So far, I'm that impressed w/its performance & feel. And did I say, I really love my 993.
BTW, IMO PASM is a great compromise for anyone (like me) desiring an urban, daily driver w/periodic DE track duty. PASM on is as stiff as I would want to drive to & then on the track. Even w/19" wheels, PASM off easily handles poorly maintained city streets. For a street only "city" Cayman, I'd get 18" w/o PASM. For mooty's level of track use, I'd get 18" & an aftermarket track biased suspension. In any case, the Cayman does need to be lowered from its school bus height. I recently read that PAG has projected that 50% of Caymans will be ordered w/PASM vs 15% of Boxsters.
Oh, I missed Woodstock (for which I had college press passes) because rain was forecast, I had a cold & it wasn't supposed to that big of a deal anyway.
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