Limited slip Diff
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Originally Posted by Jim Michaels
Pcar: I think it's a gross exaggeration to claim that no LSD "neuters" a great new sports car and is thus a slap in the face to Cayman buyers. I sold a 911 with LSD to order a Cayman, knowing it didn't have LSD before I ordered. Walter's 'Ring lap of 8:11 the first time out certainly doesn't provide support for such a claim. How much quicker would the lap have been with a LSD? Maybe a couple of seconds quicker on the 12-mile course? The Cayman S lap time was already almost too quick for its intended place in the Porsche line-up. The Cayman S fits its intended place as it comes. Any owner who wants to make his even quicker may do so. I already sense the eager anticipation of Cayman owners being waved by a 997 on track.
By "neutering," I wasn't just referring to the LSD, I was echoing a previous post that talked about compromised tuning, etc, that the factory is no doubt using to artificially keep the Cayman below the 997. Hey, I love the rear-engined cars more than anyone, but not to the point where I want other cars limited to keep from being faster. They ALREADY have cars for the masses in the Boxster and 997, they cater to the mass market. That's fine. Why coudn't they take the opportunity with the Cayman to make a no-compromises enthusiast car?
Why are you so afraid to criticize PAG?
I'm sure RUF and other tuners will take the Cayman where it's capable of going, but I cringe to think how much that will cost.
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From: Blacksburg, VA
"Why couldn't they take the opportunity with the Cayman to make a no-compromises enthusiast car?"
Because such a car would be significantly quicker than a 997S, and it probably wouldn't sell very well because we'd cringe at Porsche's price too. Hopefully, there will be a Cayman RS, but it won't be cheap; maybe slotted just under the GT3 in performance and price. Meanwhile, the aftermarket "upgrade" suppliers will be making plenty off of the Cayman.
I'm not afraid to criticize PAG at all, but, considering they fit the Cayman S just were they promised in power, performance, and price, I see nothing to criticize here. As the world's most profitable car company (at least on a per-unit basis, so I read), they don't seem to be making many mistakes. Just because PAG doesn't give the enthusiast exactly what he wants at a low price doesn't mean they made a mistake.
Because such a car would be significantly quicker than a 997S, and it probably wouldn't sell very well because we'd cringe at Porsche's price too. Hopefully, there will be a Cayman RS, but it won't be cheap; maybe slotted just under the GT3 in performance and price. Meanwhile, the aftermarket "upgrade" suppliers will be making plenty off of the Cayman.
I'm not afraid to criticize PAG at all, but, considering they fit the Cayman S just were they promised in power, performance, and price, I see nothing to criticize here. As the world's most profitable car company (at least on a per-unit basis, so I read), they don't seem to be making many mistakes. Just because PAG doesn't give the enthusiast exactly what he wants at a low price doesn't mean they made a mistake.
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From: Los Everglades
Originally Posted by Ray G
I think you mean "If you have PSM (not PASM), you don't need it." Which is partly true. The PSM and ABD can apply braking to the spinning wheel, and transfer the torque to the other wheel, so in effect, it is acting like an electrically controlled LSD. The '99 996 had LSD, but they dropped it when PSM was introduced.
I'm not sure why the Cayman on the Top Gear track smoked its wheel so much; maybe that wasn't really a LSD issue, or the programming of the ABD is different on the Cayman. I've never had an inside wheel spin at the track on my 996 or 997 on a hairpin turn.
I'm not sure why the Cayman on the Top Gear track smoked its wheel so much; maybe that wasn't really a LSD issue, or the programming of the ABD is different on the Cayman. I've never had an inside wheel spin at the track on my 996 or 997 on a hairpin turn.
A 1-way LSD distributes torque to both wheels under acceleration, contrary to both the 1-wheel torque ABD (fortunately, powering the wheel with more grip) and the 1-wheel torque open diff (unfortunately, powering the wheel with less grip).
Porsche has been using 2-way LSD with success. The 2-way units lock on acceleration and deceleration (good for trail braking).
In my opinion, the LSD should be an option in the Cayman, Boxster and 911.
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Originally Posted by Jim Michaels
"Why couldn't they take the opportunity with the Cayman to make a no-compromises enthusiast car?"
Because such a car would be significantly quicker than a 997S, and it probably wouldn't sell very well because we'd cringe at Porsche's price too. Hopefully, there will be a Cayman RS, but it won't be cheap; maybe slotted just under the GT3 in performance and price. Meanwhile, the aftermarket "upgrade" suppliers will be making plenty off of the Cayman.
I'm not afraid to criticize PAG at all, but, considering they fit the Cayman S just were they promised in power, performance, and price, I see nothing to criticize here. As the world's most profitable car company (at least on a per-unit basis, so I read), they don't seem to be making many mistakes. Just because PAG doesn't give the enthusiast exactly what he wants at a low price doesn't mean they made a mistake.
Because such a car would be significantly quicker than a 997S, and it probably wouldn't sell very well because we'd cringe at Porsche's price too. Hopefully, there will be a Cayman RS, but it won't be cheap; maybe slotted just under the GT3 in performance and price. Meanwhile, the aftermarket "upgrade" suppliers will be making plenty off of the Cayman.
I'm not afraid to criticize PAG at all, but, considering they fit the Cayman S just were they promised in power, performance, and price, I see nothing to criticize here. As the world's most profitable car company (at least on a per-unit basis, so I read), they don't seem to be making many mistakes. Just because PAG doesn't give the enthusiast exactly what he wants at a low price doesn't mean they made a mistake.
Porsches have always been expensive - but it used to be because they were more expensive to produce, while now it's because the market is willing to pay way inflated prices.
Porsche could produce a Cayman S with GT3 levels of engineering and quality for the same price they're asking now, and still make profit. And I'm not against PAG here, they're making profits because the market will bear it, I love free markets, I love capitalism. I just wish Porsche buyers expected more for their money, then PAG would be forced to offer better products for their high prices.
Anyway, does anyone know of an aftermarket LSD for the Boxster (presuming it would fit the Cayman as well)??
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Originally Posted by Jim Michaels
"Why couldn't they take the opportunity with the Cayman to make a no-compromises enthusiast car?"
Because such a car would be significantly quicker than a 997S, and it probably wouldn't sell very well because we'd cringe at Porsche's price too. Hopefully, there will be a Cayman RS, but it won't be cheap; maybe slotted just under the GT3 in performance and price. Meanwhile, the aftermarket "upgrade" suppliers will be making plenty off of the Cayman.
I'm not afraid to criticize PAG at all, but, considering they fit the Cayman S just were they promised in power, performance, and price, I see nothing to criticize here. As the world's most profitable car company (at least on a per-unit basis, so I read), they don't seem to be making many mistakes. Just because PAG doesn't give the enthusiast exactly what he wants at a low price doesn't mean they made a mistake.
Because such a car would be significantly quicker than a 997S, and it probably wouldn't sell very well because we'd cringe at Porsche's price too. Hopefully, there will be a Cayman RS, but it won't be cheap; maybe slotted just under the GT3 in performance and price. Meanwhile, the aftermarket "upgrade" suppliers will be making plenty off of the Cayman.
I'm not afraid to criticize PAG at all, but, considering they fit the Cayman S just were they promised in power, performance, and price, I see nothing to criticize here. As the world's most profitable car company (at least on a per-unit basis, so I read), they don't seem to be making many mistakes. Just because PAG doesn't give the enthusiast exactly what he wants at a low price doesn't mean they made a mistake.
Porsches have always been expensive - but it used to be because they were more expensive to produce, while now it's because the market is willing to pay way inflated prices.
Porsche could produce a Cayman S with GT3 levels of engineering and quality for the same price they're asking now, and still make profit. And I'm not against PAG here, they're making profits because the market will bear it, I love free markets, I love capitalism. I just wish Porsche buyers expected more for their money, then PAG would be forced to offer better products for their high prices.
Anyway, does anyone know of a reasonably priced aftermarket LSD for the Boxster (presuming it would fit the Cayman as well)??
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From: Denver
Originally Posted by pcar964
Anyway, does anyone know of a reasonably priced aftermarket LSD for the Boxster (presuming it would fit the Cayman as well)??
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From: Blacksburg, VA
Pcar: I don't think I wrote anything that would lead a reasoning person to infer that I'm proud of the fact that PAG is so profitable, or that I enjoy paying Porsche's high prices. It's good that you're not against PAG, and love free markets and capitalism because Porsche's change of direction from the way it used to be (in the 964 and 993 days) to the way it is now is what saved Porsche. You blame Porsche buyers for not expecting more, and then ask where you can get a LSD for a Boxster/Cayman. Have you no shame?! 
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Originally Posted by Jim Michaels
Pcar: I don't think I wrote anything that would lead a reasoning person to infer that I'm proud of the fact that PAG is so profitable, or that I enjoy paying Porsche's high prices. It's good that you're not against PAG, and love free markets and capitalism because Porsche's change of direction from the way it used to be (in the 964 and 993 days) to the way it is now is what saved Porsche. You blame Porsche buyers for not expecting more, and then ask where you can get a LSD for a Boxster/Cayman. Have you no shame?!
Anyway, I don't know what "have you no shame" means... yeah I prefer older Porsches - but I am also interested in new Pcar buyers and enthusiasts being able to enjoy their sportscars the way they want... hence the question about availability of LSD for the new cars!
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From: Blacksburg, VA
Pcar: Explaining "Have you no shame?!" here. You had just shifted the blame for Porsche not offering cars for enthusiasts from PAG to the Porsche buyers who are willing to buy whatever models Porsche does offer. Then in the very next sentence you asked where you can get a PSM for a Boxster/Cayman, suggesting that you're considering buying one of Porsche's current offerings rather than holding out. Shame! Stand your ground and stick with your enthusiast's Porsche. As for me, I'm boldly leaping into the 21st century; buying a modern Porsche with no tool kit, no spare tire, no oil dip stick, and no LSD. Pray for me.
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Originally Posted by Jim Michaels
Pcar: Explaining "Have you no shame?!" here. You had just shifted the blame for Porsche not offering cars for enthusiasts from PAG to the Porsche buyers who are willing to buy whatever models Porsche does offer. Then in the very next sentence you asked where you can get a PSM for a Boxster/Cayman, suggesting that you're considering buying one of Porsche's current offerings rather than holding out. Shame! Stand your ground and stick with your enthusiast's Porsche. As for me, I'm boldly leaping into the 21st century; buying a modern Porsche with no tool kit, no spare tire, no oil dip stick, and no LSD. Pray for me.
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Originally Posted by pcar964
I have co-owned a boxster S before, and I remember not being able to find an aftermarket LSD. I was just curious!
I think "neutered" is a fine word--entertaining at the very least. I don't honestly believe the 3.6L, or even the 3.8L, costs (over a 3.2L) the extra $10K to $20K profit Porsche is making on the Cayman. It's positioning.
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Originally Posted by arenared
Hmmm... I hope not. I know the 5 and 6 speeds are completely different, the 5 speed being a VW/Audi-sourced one I believe. Quaife makes a TBD for the 2.5, but not the 2.7/3.2. I was talking with Paul Guard a while back and was under the belief that he had either torque bias or conventional clutch pack available for the 3.2L. I have no PSM, so that's not an issue. Maybe as more of the 2000+ cars come out of warranty, the aftermarket will step up.
I think "neutered" is a fine word--entertaining at the very least. I don't honestly believe the 3.6L, or even the 3.8L, costs (over a 3.2L) the extra $10K to $20K profit Porsche is making on the Cayman. It's positioning.
I think "neutered" is a fine word--entertaining at the very least. I don't honestly believe the 3.6L, or even the 3.8L, costs (over a 3.2L) the extra $10K to $20K profit Porsche is making on the Cayman. It's positioning.
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I saw the video and the Cayman does smoke the inside rear tire exiting tight corners. The track was dry where it happend and there was a lot of wheel spin -- looked just like an open diff car. I am sure they test with PSM off -- maybe that disables the ABD function? The test driver mentioned the lack of LSD holding the car back.
Not sure it would be an issue at a full race track because of the higher speed corners but LSD really should be an option since it comes standard with competing sports cars.
Not sure it would be an issue at a full race track because of the higher speed corners but LSD really should be an option since it comes standard with competing sports cars.
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From: Denver
Originally Posted by arenared
I was talking with Paul Guard a while back and was under the belief that he had either torque bias or conventional clutch pack available for the 3.2L. I have no PSM, so that's not an issue. Maybe as more of the 2000+ cars come out of warranty, the aftermarket will step up.
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From: Tampa
cgomez: Amen brother. I'm just now finalizing my 2006 miata purchase, to compliment the 993 and 997. The only option on my "sport" model is the $500 suspension package which included a nice LSD. Your right, this should be an an available option (preferably at $500) on all "our" cars.
Jack
Jack