K27

84k Cdn, no LSD and about as much power as your average 4dr sedan has these days ???? this car is way overpriced and under spec.

Gator_86_951

The thing is I don't think the mark would be diluted by another car like the cayman that was faster then the 911. I honestly think they would still be fine. But Porsche has certainly become very popular in the last 5-7 years. They are all over the place.

I'd like to think when I get out of school there would something in achievable price range that porsche makes that would be worth it for me. But, doesn't look like that is going to happen...

Irishdriver

I think you're being unfair...every model Porsche has received facelifts, power increases and tummy tucks as time went on. It is totally logical that Porsche don't bring the car in at the max as they have planned the revision already.

What will be more interesting will be to see what the base "cayman" will be.....below the boxster S but above the base boxster?

I saw the car this morning and it looks good. The main problem is that the options list kill the car. A second hand car has to be fully loaded to sell well in te German market and taking the options pushes the prices way up.

Sanjeevan

Michael, I am unable to open any of the links, and I have DivX, quicktime, real player and windows media.

STLPCA

I'm not sure how you define "neuvo Porsche owners." Try a search for "cup holder" or "tiptronic" on the 993 board & you'll find a strong interest in each among 993 owners.

Porsche's efforts "to capture sales from outside of their traditional markets" began in earnest several decades before the 986.

worf928

Maybe so. But the 986 was the first with cupholders IIRC.

ked

They called the 356 w/ the Normal engine the "Damen" model. You could get a '72 911T w/ SR, AC & elect windows. Ludvigsen's recent article in Excellence reminds us that the factory's alternative to developing the Boxster in the early/mid '90s was the 4 dr. I think they made an enthusiast's decision.

The fact you can spec a "soft" Cayman doesn't mean that you & your 911 will be able to beat Walter Rohrl driving it.

JJayB

"I'm not sure how you define "neuvo Porsche owners." Try a search for "cup holder" or "tiptronic" on the 993 board & you'll find a strong interest in each among 993 owners"

Dan, let me give you an example: I had a student at a DE event who didn't see a problem having her latte' in the cup holder; while we were on the track!
Driving is not the first priority while in the car in the" neuvo Porsche owners" livestyle. Since I made up the term, I guess I can make up the definition.

BTW, Does anyone know who the "Stig" is. My guess is someone from the British Touring Car series like Jason Plato.

worf928

And I take it you didn't let her learn about cause and effect on her own?

STLPCA

Gee, I recall like it was yesterday, those in the "enthusiast" Porsche community who castigated Porsche's decision to market the 928. Those "purists" defined it as an overweight, bulbous touring car meant for overweight, bulbous, old, wealthy men who lacked the sporting spirit of 911 buyers. I assume you'd disagree with those ignorant stereotypers.

I'm not sure how you feel about those Porsche diehards who criticized the 911, the 912, the 914, the 924, the 944, the 964, the 993, etc.

STLPCA

At least you apparently recognize the silliness of generalizing. I'm sure for every latte toting DE student you've known, I've known 10 DE instructors/enthusiasts who track their Boxsters or water cooled 911s. Why, I even have a friend who talks incessantly on his cell phone while driving his last of the oil cooled, supercar, 993TT. Heresy. So there.

As for Top Gear, it's entertainment. Only gross generalities emerge from comparing single lap track times by a driver who may/may not be familiar w/the car, under differing conditions (wind speed/direction, humidity/rain, temp, etc.). Certainly not something to be debating tenths or even a few seconds. The same goes for the mag road test specs. It's just show biz.

worf928

If you actually "recall like it was yesterday" the castigation of Porsche's decisions in the 70s then you, sir, are far, far, older than I.

Intro: Below, I use Dan's words for the 928 to describe the 997. However, it is for automotive comparative purposes and historical irony only. No cries of "Hey, 911 people aren't fat, old, and wealthy" please. It's about the cars, not the people.

Are you trying to make my point for me? Porsche's "experience" with the 924/944 and 928 is what leads directly to Porsche's current strategy of incrementally turning the 911 (996,997,998) into a GT car while at the same time keeping the Cayman hobbled with a smaller power plant, no LSD, etc. A company will always be a target for criticism when it makes major changes to a product line. However, smart companies ...

... will introduce new disruptive products that cannibalize their older product lines. Why? Because if they don't a competitor will. Porsche attempted this strategy in the 70s with the 924/928 but in conjunction with management changes allowed the "Porsche diehards" to trip them up with the result that by the late 80s Porsche was in deep trouble.

In the last decade, with the 986 and the Cayenne, Porsche is trying to revive its strategy to broaden its product line, attract additional volume, and stay competitive in a very cut throat automotive industry. However, IMO they are doing the same thing with the Cayman - presently - that they did with the 924/944 and 928: They are keeping the 911 King of The Hill and hobbling their newest product. They are just doing it in a different way than they did with the 928. They are incrementally turning the 911 into a "overweight, bulbous" car for "old, wealthy men" to avoid a disruptive change to their 'core' customer base while bringing along - slowly - newer products that may attract the 'enthusiast' market.

In the short to medium term however, I believe that this strategy is very risky. By broadening the product line with the Cayman they are - yes - attracting potential buyers who would not by a 911 but they are not making the Cayman a clear-cut winner to those non-911-buying potential buyers. In general - there are always exceptions - '911 folks' want 911s and do not cross-shop Vipers, Corvettes, etc. However, the potential Cayman buyers may not have the same reverence for the Porsche marquee as their traditional 911-buying demographic. These buyers may - for God's sake! - cross-shop heavily with other performance cars.

The C6-Z06 offers performance that will flatten the Cayman at the same price. The 350Z (to name one car as an example only) offers similar - albeit slightly poorer performance - at half the price. (Sure, knock the 350Z all you want, I don't mind. But, if you think the 'vette is a rattle-trap that will self-destruct at 50k miles you haven't driven a Corvette in 10 years. And don't talk to me about interior design - see previous post about 'switches'...)

Simply put, hobbling the Cayman does not maximize Porsche's potential to win over as much as the target demographic as it could. If they added 50 hp or so and LSD, the Cayman - even at twice the price - wouldn't be on the same planet as the 350Z and would compare favorably with the C6-Z06, Viper, and .... the 911. But, Porsche cannot have that!

We shall see. Sales numbers will tell all. If Porsche has hit the mark "911-folk" will continue to buy the 997/998 and their 'cross-shoppers' will buy the Cayman. If Porsche misses the mark "911-folk" will continue to buy the 997/998 but the 'cross-shoppers' will buy other cars. On the gripping hand: Porsche can also hit the mark if "diehards" buy the Cayman and "old, wealthy men" buy the 997/998. This would actually accelerate the strategy as Porsche could then more-quickly 'luxo-up' the 911 Bently-GT-style and then give the enthusiast the Cayman RS they want.

I have been waiting for a 'boxster coupe' since rumours surfaced. Obviously, the Cayman will be a hit for the first few years as there is a lot of pent-up demand for a mid-engined coupe. The story will not conclude for a few years.

K27

I think the answer will come much sooner than that.
The Boxster sold well despite it's wheezer of an engine, why ?
because it was bought mostly by people that did not care about performance, it was a convertable, looked good and it was a Porsche at an affordable price for a Porsche.
The Cayman is a different animal and I don't think diehards are plentiful enough to support it in the current automotive market.
I have been planning on a new car since selling the 951 and I can tell you at 84k it won't be the Cayman, probably a WRX at half the price. It's no visual stunner but then niether is the Cayman.

worf928

Yup. And I think the same dynamics will work for the Cayman for the first year or two. After that they will need to add sufficient 'umph' to the Cayman to attract shoppers.


Looks are subjective.

But, your 84k Cayman seems a bit excessive. I spec'd out the Cayman *I* would want and it was under $65k. Still for a few K more I can get a Z06 that is faster in all objective measures. The Z06 would still have a few subjective shortcomings but how can you argue with a 500hp dry-sump motor in a car that weighs ~3100 pounds with an IIRC 7:40 'ring time?

JustinL

I think K27 is talking about 84K in Cannuck bucks.